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Subjunctive posted:Just ban the sale of most ammo, you can get a permit if you hand back your now-restricted guns. Doesn't make criminals out of anyone or take anything away, just restricts going forward. Same way we didn't seize leaded gasoline. Not a valid comparison, because 1) Single and multi-shot rifles use the same ammunition, for the most part 2) Banning leaded gas didn't make 95%+ of the cars in Canads useless overnight 3) Guns don't wear out and need replacement as frequently as cars
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Jun 15, 2016 17:41
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David Corbett posted:Also, from a practical perspective, banning nearly all of Canada's millions of guns in circulation would be a terrible idea. No, it would be an awesome idea, I don't give a gently caress about gunowners.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:42
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I had a friend who was a "camp gun" for a while. His job was basically to shoot anything dangerous to protect a group of mineral surveyors as they operated deep in the middle of nowhere. It was fairly standard to use some sort of big rifle that could hold a half dozen or so shots and go through them pretty quickly/easily. You'd first have a "bear banger" chambered, this is sort of like a blank but just shoots out a thing that's super loud and hopefully scares the bear away. After that you'd have some real rounds, because if the bear banger doesn't work you need to take the bear down asap and quite often a single shot won't do it. But these people are licensed and trained and using a weapon as part of a job. That should really be the only situation one should be allowed a gun.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:43
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I think you guys are forgetting that the ultimate way to show respect for the natural world is to drive into the woods of Northern Ontario with your truck nutted F-150, 24 of Lakeport at the ready, and then make a moose die
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Jun 15, 2016 17:51
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That's hardly standard. In my experience, most camps had a shotgun or a bolt action rifle, and the bear bangers were small firework-type deals launced from a device the size of a pen. No need for an ar-15 or sks or w/e.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:51
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Hey guys guess we can't do anything about gun violence because some hunter has arthritis.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:51
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Trees and Squids posted:I think you guys are forgetting that the ultimate way to show respect for the natural world is to drive into the woods of Northern Ontario with your truck nutted F-150, 24 of Lakeport at the ready, and then make a moose die Nah, just put it in the back seat for a while and let it go, the park rangers will do the rest.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:52
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Trees and Squids posted:I think you guys are forgetting that the ultimate way to show respect for the natural world is to drive into the woods of Northern Ontario with your truck nutted F-150, 24 of Lakeport at the ready, and then make a moose die Seriously, the number of Fraser Valley fuckwits who think they are "getting out into nature", who are really just rumbling onto a forestry service road on their loving raised F150s with a twofour and a pile of guns to shoot things with gently caress guns and gently caress all gunowners
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Jun 15, 2016 17:56
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guns are for pathetic people, that's why cops get them.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:56
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If you ban cops then only criminals will have cops.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:58
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Why are we arguing about this? Making our gun laws stricter is going to do very little, because I would guess the largest contributory factor to gun violence in Canada is our proximity to the US, where guns can be bought and smuggled into Canada easily. Our gun laws are neither unreasonably strict or too loose, so we'd be changing things just to change them. EDIT: It's stupid to ban guns just because you don't like the sort of people who own guns. I agree a lot of them really suck, but that's not really a good reason to ban guns and I don't think we should do it just to spite them or whatever.
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Jun 15, 2016 17:59
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We should just ban guns anyhow.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:03
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PT6A posted:Why are we arguing about this? Making our gun laws stricter is going to do very little, because I would guess the largest contributory factor to gun violence in Canada is our proximity to the US, where guns can be bought and smuggled into Canada easily. Our gun laws are neither unreasonably strict or too loose, so we'd be changing things just to change them. Preemptively telling you to not be thick here. Our laws do work and there are numbers to back this up. If you look at Canada, there are 2 gun-related deaths per 100,000 per year suicides being the most common (1.52 per 100,000) and homicides being second (0.38). Compare that to our neighbours, it's 10.5 per 100,000 with homicide being 3.4 per 100,000 and suicide being 6.7.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:04
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OSI bean dip posted:Preemptively telling you to not be thick here. I agree. Our laws do work, and they are important. I'm saying there's very limited room for improvement because, unlike in the US, the vast majority of gun deaths result from guns that were illegally obtained, stored, transported, modified, etc. under the current laws. Thus, we need to focus on the enforcement of existing laws and anti-smuggling operations more than imposing additional restrictions.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:10
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PT6A posted:Why are we arguing about this? Making our gun laws stricter is going to do very little, because I would guess the largest contributory factor to gun violence in Canada is our proximity to the US, where guns can be bought and smuggled into Canada easily. Our gun laws are neither unreasonably strict or too loose, so we'd be changing things just to change them. Gun control laws objectively work, not just in Canada, but in other countries with stricter laws too. There's plenty of data to back this up. In a perfect world though yeah, ban guns and ban all gun owners.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:11
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I'm pretty much as pro-gun control as they come and literally never have so much as touched a gun. The AR-15 issue is just a honeypot for spergy gun nuts to argue with people who believe that an AR-15 with 5 relatively low-caliber bullets is a lot more deadly than it actually is. As long as handguns are effectively banned from private ownership and medium or large capacity magazines are illegal gun violence will remain relatively low in Canada. It would be even lower if we didn't have the United States directly to our south, but there's not a lot we can do about that. On the other hand: cowofwar posted:All semi-auto guns and all magazines should be banned. The only guns allowed should be those that require manual chambering of every single round. I'm pretty sympathetic to this point of view as well..
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Jun 15, 2016 18:13
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I must have missed the part of my post where I said our gun laws aren't working. What I'm saying is we don't need to change them, because they are working fine as is.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:15
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PT6A posted:I must have missed the part of my post where I said our gun laws aren't working. I think they should be significantly more strict actually.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:16
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Gun control isn't an all-encompassing solution to violent crime; it's a means of making it a pain in the rear end to kill people en-masse. It's sort of like how my job is to secure my company's networks but I can only really do so by making it too much of a pain in the rear end for an intruder to get a foothold as I cannot promise 100% security.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:16
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Baronjutter posted:I had a friend who was a "camp gun" for a while. His job was basically to shoot anything dangerous to protect a group of mineral surveyors as they operated deep in the middle of nowhere. It was fairly standard to use some sort of big rifle that could hold a half dozen or so shots and go through them pretty quickly/easily. You'd first have a "bear banger" chambered, this is sort of like a blank but just shoots out a thing that's super loud and hopefully scares the bear away. After that you'd have some real rounds, because if the bear banger doesn't work you need to take the bear down asap and quite often a single shot won't do it. It's cool that your friend was Liam Neeson in The Grey, on the other hand I'm pretty sure we could come up with a scenario where someone in that specific situation can be licensed to have a gun that the rest of the population is not allowed to have.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:19
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OSI bean dip posted:Gun control isn't an all-encompassing solution to violent crime; it's a means of making it a pain in the rear end to kill people en-masse. Also of making it a pain in the rear end to kill other people and/or yourself in the heat of the moment because you were momentarily enraged/depressed.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:21
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MA-Horus posted:Did you know that in the First World War, the British were famous for something called "The Mad Minute"? Essentially It means their infantry with bolt-action rifles were able to get a round off every 2 seconds for a full minute, including reloads. The Germans thought they were under machine-gun fire the first time they ran into it. Random nitpick, but this isn't actually true. This rumour specifically dates from around the Battle of Mons, and while there are reports from BEF soldiers of advancing German columns falling as if they were under machine gun fire, there are no known German reports that say anything of the sort. In actually addressing the content of your post, the Mad Minute was a thing amongst the professional core of the British army. It's not a thing the later conscripts were really capable of (because nobody bothered to teach them, as it was not important), and not a thing some random mass shooter is likely to be doing. Rust Martialis posted:We should just ban guns anyhow.  Shooting ranges are fine, but personal ownership is dumb and bad.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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CLAM DOWN posted:I think they should be significantly more strict actually. Why? Our current gun violence problems come from things that are already illegal under current laws. I still have yet to hear an argument explaining why stricter gun laws will benefit Canada other than "gently caress gun owners." Our current laws are more than adequate, although I agree we need better enforcement.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:30
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PT6A posted:Why? Our current gun violence problems come from things that are already illegal under current laws. I still have yet to hear an argument explaining why stricter gun laws will benefit Canada other than "gently caress gun owners." Our current laws are more than adequate, although I agree we need better enforcement. CLAM DOWN posted:No, it would be an awesome idea, I don't give a gently caress about gunowners. CLAM DOWN posted:ban guns and ban all gun owners. CLAM DOWN posted:gently caress guns and gently caress all gunowners What part of this are you not getting?
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Jun 15, 2016 18:37
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Ikantski posted:What part of this are you not getting? Probably the part where PT6A has a reasonable viewpoint. I was also confused.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:41
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Honestly, we should make it illegal to shoot people.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:46
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El Scotch posted:Honestly, we should make it illegal to shoot people. if you we make it illegal to shoot people then only criminals will shoot people.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:47
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Keep glazing over the fact that a lot of countries with much lower rates of firearm ownership have significantly higher homicide rates and vice versa. Most people who own guns aren't goobers that trapes off in to the sand pits to shoot old TVs and leave massive piles of garbage behind. Hell, I've probably gone in to the bush with a trash pole and a box of garbage bags to clean that poo poo up more than anyone else here. And LOL at the hate for game and bird hunters I bet you buy chicken and eggs from places that are basically Auschwitz for birds. Urban trash.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:52
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Ikantski posted:What part of this are you not getting? Presumably, the same part I did - that anyone actually wants to hear a different opinion. Boy, was that ever dumb.
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Jun 15, 2016 18:56
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EvilJoven posted:Keep glazing over the fact that a lot of countries with much lower rates of firearm ownership have significantly higher homicide rates and vice versa. lol loser, i only eat a free sourced organic vegan cuisine, from my fully solar powered home, anyone who doesn't do 100% of what I do is just a loser
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Jun 15, 2016 18:56
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vyelkin posted:Also of making it a pain in the rear end to kill other people and/or yourself in the heat of the moment because you were momentarily enraged/depressed. yeah. you can't really stop someone who's willing to put a lot of work into killing a shitload of people, but it's trivial to reduce the impulsive poo poo that actually makes up the majority of gun violence. its kind of like how replacing screw-top pill bottles of tylenol with blister packs in the UK cut suicide attempts by that method by almost 50% because just forcing people to actually pop em all out of the packaging one by one was enough to discourage a very large proportion of people
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Jun 15, 2016 18:59
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EvilJoven posted:And LOL at the hate for game and bird hunters I bet you buy chicken and eggs from places that are basically Auschwitz for birds. A month ago, goons in this thread called outdoor cats Literally Hitler for their merciless slaughter of birds, LOL.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:10
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EvilJoven posted:And LOL at the hate for game and bird hunters I bet you buy chicken and eggs from places that are basically Auschwitz for birds. It would be hilarious to hear your take on how these chickens and other livestock would do if they were released into the wild to roam free.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:12
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Doesnt Japan have super strict gun laws, to the point that police officers can actually be charged and jailed for firing their guns outside of the most extreme cases? We have good gun laws in Canada, theyre just very poorly written or enforced. Its not hard to understand why people would just flat out opt for banning of them with such a long and messy history of trying to improve said laws. 
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Jun 15, 2016 19:13
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We have reasonable gun laws in Canada, but our gun culture is heavily influenced by the United States. Ban America imho.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:19
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Whiskey Sours posted:We have reasonable gun laws in Canada, but our gun culture is heavily influenced by the United States. Truth The problem isn't guns, it's terrible people with guns. Americans are terrible people and their bullshit rubs off on us too much. EDIT: Americans with guns are terrifying. People from other developed countries with guns, not so much.  EDIT2: Also hosed up countries full of murder really aren't hosed up and full of murder because everyone's armed. 
EvilJoven fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 19:29
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Whiskey Sours posted:We have reasonable gun laws in Canada, but our gun culture is heavily influenced by the United States.  Sometimes it amuses me how bipolar we are in this country. How fast we can flip between "At least we arent the USA!" and "We need to be more like the USA!" is one of the best examples of this.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:36
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Furnaceface posted:"We need to be more like the USA!" Who is saying this? People who want better Netflix? Cheaper milk? Also yeah my brain exploded from PT6A making sense, sorrrrry eh
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Jun 15, 2016 19:45
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This thread really comes alive any time people get the opportunity to talk about people who do activity x or own object y are the scum of the earth and should be relentlessly persecuted. I don't say this as someone with any particular love of guns or gun nuts, but bitching about how some other group of Canadians partake in some activity or lifestyle seems to be literally the only topic anyone gets genuinely enthusiastic for and it's honestly kind of pathetic.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:50
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lmao Ontario http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-charged-after-fiery-argument-over-whether-earth-is-flat-or-round-1.2945537 quote:A 56-year-old man in eastern Ontario is wanted by police on a mischief charge, after he allegedly threw a propane tank into a fire during an argument with his son's girlfriend over whether the Earth is flat or round.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:55
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