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If nothing else, we have established that defending fantasy war crimes is not limited to one faction, I guess.
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Jun 16, 2016 16:09
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AnonSpore posted:That would hold weight if the primary leader of the orcs was an actual living breathing being instead of a mouthpiece for the writer What would you do about the horde of roid raging aliens then?
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Jun 16, 2016 17:37
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Agreeing with everyone who would rather have a Fall of Arthas film. Much tighter story, don't need to throw loads of orc/draenor exposition in there, it's not a mess of retconning. Tees up a sequel nicely too.
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Jun 16, 2016 17:54
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I think the problem with the Arthas movie is that that story has already been so directly in a game. This movie at least told a story that was just vaguely constructed from instruction manuals and retcons and it didn't even end up very good. Adapting warcraft III directly to film just spells a disaster bigger than this already big disaster.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:42
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Not to mention that it would have to be one mess of a movie. The two separate campaigns can't really be merged into one movie and hell the human campaign almost has too much going on already to be adapted. You have the orcs, cult of the damned, Stratholme, boat burning, Frostmourne hunting and the final battle that will somehow have to be mashed into 2 hours. It would make the Hobbit seem well paced by comparison.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:50
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No I meant just the Arthas falling part of the game. Ending with Terenas's death. Maybe that would be too simple for a film? I figure you could get some mileage out of the creeping corruption and dread Arthas faces and his slow descent into butchery and bloodthirst. Making all of WC3 one movie would definitely be a mess.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:54
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Whats the story behind Dalaran flying/not, since that's apparently a point of contention.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:24
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MiddleOne posted:Not to mention that it would have to be one mess of a movie. The two separate campaigns can't really be merged into one movie and hell the human campaign almost has too much going on already to be adapted. You have the orcs, cult of the damned, Stratholme, boat burning, Frostmourne hunting and the final battle that will somehow have to be mashed into 2 hours. It would make the Hobbit seem well paced by comparison. You don't need to tell all that and it can just be based on things. There is a undead problem, they go hunting for Frostmourne, Arthas gets corrupted and fucks things up (I haven't played WC3 in years, I have no idea of the minutiae of the story).
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Jun 16, 2016 19:26
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Baron Porkface posted:Whats the story behind Dalaran flying/not, since that's apparently a point of contention. I'm pretty sure Dalaran didn't start flying until WotLK which is like 30 years after the movie iirc
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Jun 16, 2016 19:27
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You could make like 3 or 4 movies out of Warcraft 3 but I do agree that doing the Arthas thing would probably have been better for their first movie for the purposes of hooking people into the universe, since Arthas is far and away the most popular character in Warcraft history.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:27
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Baron Porkface posted:Whats the story behind Dalaran flying/not, since that's apparently a point of contention. WC3 established Dalaran as a normal land-bound city of mages that the main villain turned into a crater in the ground. TFT established it as a ruin being fought over and ultimately won by the undead. Then WoW ignored TFT and simply put a massive gently caress-off shield in a location and called it Dalaran. Finally, in WoTLK it was not only rebuilt but also flying suddenly. Then the movie just went for the WoTLK take. I'm not sure it's a point of contention as much as it is pointless.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:30
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The Alliance actually reclaimed Dalaran in TFT. It's why they were ever in a position to imprison Kael'thas there.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:32
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Fojar38 posted:The Alliance actually reclaimed Dalaran in TFT. It's why they were ever in a position to imprison Kael'thas there. Only initially, the endgame of Sylvanas part of the undead campaign is her killing all of them and assuming control which WoW just kinda forgets about.
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Jun 16, 2016 19:35
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MiddleOne posted:Only initially, the endgame of Sylvanas part of the undead campaign is her killing all of them and assuming control which WoW just kinda forgets about. No that was the ruins of Lordaeron's capital city, not Dalaran
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Jun 16, 2016 19:40
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rockopete posted:No I meant just the Arthas falling part of the game. Ending with Terenas's death. Maybe that would be too simple for a film? I figure you could get some mileage out of the creeping corruption and dread Arthas faces and his slow descent into butchery and bloodthirst. Making all of WC3 one movie would definitely be a mess. It still feels like the problem with any of that is that story has been explicitly on screen. This movie was pretty close to a disaster but it at least got the advantage of showing a story that was only barely actually in a game and mostly just a thing you read about in manuals and in wow text boxes. It feels like any time they try to create a movie from a story directly in a game it'll be "VIDEO GAME ADAPTATION" and suffer the fate those always do (and this movie mostly did)
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Jun 16, 2016 19:53
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If I remember correctly, the internment camp thing was the human's stopgap answer to the "What the hell are we going to do with these guys that doesn't make us collectively throw up?" question*, and it was only after a while that the Orcs became so listless that even the humans got concerned about was happening to them and figured out that it was more than being in an internment camp. * Especially since, I think, half the humans were in the "gently caress the Orcs" and the other half were in the "What the gently caress is wrong with you" camp. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 20:42
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So, how is this compared to the Hobbit movies.. say the second one?
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Jun 16, 2016 21:35
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pigdog posted:So, how is this compared to the Hobbit movies.. say the second one? Better. Faster and more fun. Which isn't saying much.
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Jun 16, 2016 22:44
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This is making me really glad I skipped the Hobbit films. They must have been a dire slog, considering that people seem to like this better than them.
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Jun 16, 2016 22:56
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It's better than the third Hobbit but worse than the second.
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Jun 16, 2016 22:57
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Hodgepodge posted:This is making me really glad I skipped the Hobbit films. They must have been a dire slog, considering that people seem to like this better than them. Hobbit looks better than this. And the actors are better. And the CG is *slightly* less intrusive. But it's 8 hours for all 3 films. 8 hours. You spend what must be at least 45 minutes watching a dozen identical-looking dwarves being rude AirBnB guests. That's how it starts, and it doesn't get much better. Warcraft is not good but it is less boring than The Hobbit just by virtue of a baseline concern for economy in storytelling.
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Jun 16, 2016 23:05
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Xealot posted:Hobbit looks better than this. And the actors are better. And the CG is *slightly* less intrusive. It's really the live action elements that are intrusive in Warcraft, not the CGI. And, yeah, the live-action and CGI elements are better integrated with each other in the Hobbit, but the CGI itself, particularly that awful big white leader orc, is worse. But as you say, the Hobbits' big crime is how boring they are. If they'd paced Warcraft like those films, we'd have ended the first 2.5 hour movie on Garona being recruited to the human's side.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:24
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AnonSpore posted:That would hold weight if the primary leader of the orcs was an actual living breathing being instead of a mouthpiece for the writer Humans, whether on Earth or on Azeroth, fear and hate death. It is the great unknown, the Grim Reaper that takes us away from our loved ones (or vice versa). Wars are generally considered to be a bad thing because people inevitably die in them. This is also why, in most human societies, imprisonment is considered to be a more merciful form of punishment compared to death penalty. For orcs of Draenor, on other hand, death holds little mystery. When they die in a glorious battle, they become revered ancestor spirits. They can keep watching over their loved ones and even interact with them (provided that their tribe hasn't abandoned its shamanistic ways for fel magic). On the flip side, this gives orcs a major incentive to be aggressive and belligerent: since they have centuries ahead of them to be chill, wise and enlightened, they might as well cram as much violent action into their relatively short corporeal lives. And, of course, every one of them would prefer death in battle to imprisonment.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:35
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Hodgepodge posted:This is making me really glad I skipped the Hobbit films. They must have been a dire slog, considering that people seem to like this better than them. An Unexpected Journey is actually pretty good. Desolation of Smaug is terrible though with it's stupid as hell Scooby Doo chase scene with Smaug. Battle of the Five Armies is okay. The Hobbit trilogy just doesn't hold a candle to the Lord of the Rings trilogy though, doesn't even come close. When the movies are actually honest to god faithful to the book then it's really good. The lowest points are when it deviates from that. Also the movies are missing all of the songs from the book and Peter Jackson should be thrown into prison for that. If the Hobbit was truly faithful then it would have been a three hour musical. Kerrrrrrr posted:I'm pretty sure Dalaran didn't start flying until WotLK which is like 30 years after the movie iirc No, Dalaran was a floating city during Vanilla WoW. One of the first zones where Horde and Alliance players start to meet each other during gameplay has the crater where the city use to be. Although I swear to god it was destroyed in Warcraft 3 and WoW retcons this fact. [edit] Someone else already explained it up above. The whole thing is weird. WoW for the most part ignores the RTS games. If I was going to make a Warcraft movie then it would have been about the rise and fall of Arthas. That was the best storyline in Warcraft 3. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 05:45
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I said come in! posted:No, Dalaran was a floating city during Vanilla WoW. One of the first zones where Horde and Alliance players start to meet each other during gameplay has the crater where the city use to be. Although I swear to god it was destroyed in Warcraft 3 and WoW retcons this fact. No, it was definitely a big purple dome surrounded by ruins in vanilla. They changed it to a crater in wrath for "consistency" but the surrounding storyline didn't really change to acknowledge that in any way, so your confusion is understandable.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:52
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No Mods No Masters posted:No, it was definitely a big purple dome surrounded by ruins in vanilla. They changed it to a crater in wrath for "consistency" but the surrounding storyline didn't really change to acknowledge that in any way. Oooh okay, that makes more sense. The way I remember it was that in Vanilla, Dalaran was in the world but had left its original location to be some gently caress off city in the clouds and left behind this crater that you could visit, but visiting the actual city wouldn't be available for a couple expansion packs.
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Jun 17, 2016 05:55
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I said come in! posted:Oooh okay, that makes more sense. The way I remember it was that in Vanilla, Dalaran was in the world but had left its original location to be some gently caress off city in the clouds and left behind this crater that you could visit, but visiting the actual city wouldn't be available for a couple expansion packs. It wasn't talked about that much in vanilla because they didn't want to call attention to the super lovely featureless purple dome, but as I recall the idea was the wizards had sealed the city off while they were rebuilding from it getting destroyed in warcraft 3, and were maybe up to some shenanigans inside or maybe not. Basically a dropped/shunted plot point until it was picked up again in wrath. Edit it looked like this. Epic 
No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 06:00
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Hodgepodge posted:Honestly, if you really want to go to bat for loving internment camps, the place is actually D&D. Sometimes I think part of the appeal of many fantasy and science fiction stories is that they create elaborate and dire situations in which you'd be crazy not to be a fascist.
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Jun 17, 2016 06:41
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Helsing posted:Sometimes I think part of the appeal of many fantasy and science fiction stories is that they create elaborate and dire situations in which you'd be crazy not to be a fascist. See: all of Warhammer 40k since about 2000 (and quite a bit of it before then too, even if it started out as satirical)
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Jun 17, 2016 07:45
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I said come in! posted:An Unexpected Journey is actually pretty good. Desolation of Smaug is terrible though with it's stupid as hell Scooby Doo chase scene with Smaug. Battle of the Five Armies is okay. The Hobbit trilogy just doesn't hold a candle to the Lord of the Rings trilogy though, doesn't even come close. When the movies are actually honest to god faithful to the book then it's really good. The lowest points are when it deviates from that. Also the movies are missing all of the songs from the book and Peter Jackson should be thrown into prison for that. If the Hobbit was truly faithful then it would have been a three hour musical. In Vanilla WoW Dalaran was on the ground and had a force field around it. It wasn't back in the air until Wrath of the Lich King.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:52
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MiddleOne posted:WC3 established Dalaran as a normal land-bound city of mages that the main villain turned into a crater in the ground. TFT established it as a ruin being fought over and ultimately won by the undead. Then WoW ignored TFT and simply put a massive gently caress-off shield in a location and called it Dalaran. Finally, in WoTLK it was not only rebuilt but also flying suddenly. Then the movie just went for the WoTLK take. A flying mage city is cool, and if they're going to retcon stuff it's the kind of thing that is worth chucking in.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:17
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You guys are making it too complicated, all this movie needed is an orc hitting a building until it's on fire and collapse, standing while peons march back and forth as he hacks them. Some fog of war thing. I think there was a sheep morph, but it was some lame one for a prison escape. If we get to the wow era, that's different tropes. But i can't be in the minority to play this game and not follow the story to know 5% of anything you guys are talking about above.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:28
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Doctor Spaceman posted:A flying mage city is cool, and if they're going to retcon stuff it's the kind of thing that is worth chucking in. That was my point though, sure it's cool but they don't really do anything with it. It's just a callback for the WoW players.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:55
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Speaking of Dalaran cameos, I think this movie did really bad with conveying the geography. There's absolutely no sense of where anything is in relationship to anything else, so when Khadgar flies halfway across the continent to visit Dalaran, it feels like no more of a trip than popping down the street from Stormwind to Karazhan.
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Jun 17, 2016 21:18
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Hodgepodge posted:This is making me really glad I skipped the Hobbit films. They must have been a dire slog, considering that people seem to like this better than them. i watched up until the dwarves left bilbo's house in the first mouse. that was like forty minutes in somehow.
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Jun 17, 2016 22:08
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Groovelord Neato posted:i watched up until the dwarves left bilbo's house in the first mouse. that was like forty minutes in somehow. See, that's the thing. I don't know how Peter Jackson could be fresh off LotR and somehow think a book 1/110th their size needed the same amount of movie. Helsing posted:Sometimes I think part of the appeal of many fantasy and science fiction stories is that they create elaborate and dire situations in which you'd be crazy not to be a fascist. That's mostly Heinlein and Warhammer 40k. And even in 40k, it's a big counter-productive mess with lots of people realizing that it's incredibly hosed up and that humanity has doomed itself. It also has all sorts of weird niches from all the accumulated lore. Like it turns out that the brutal psyker cull where they get sacrificed to the Emperor? The endpoint is actually an idyllic monastery where you prepare to slowly meditate to transcending unto oneness with your God. And that only happens if you're sufficiently enlightened, since you can't be in the proper mindset without wanting to do it, so lots of people just end up teaching the others instead. Heinlein... well, libertarians. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 00:22
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Isnt like guldan posessed by a dead troll voodoo doctor, and he dies and is reborn as the lich to help Arthas in the undead campaign in Warcraft 3?
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Jun 18, 2016 00:35
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Tenzarin posted:Isnt like guldan posessed by a dead troll voodoo doctor, and he dies and is reborn as the lich to help Arthas in the undead campaign in Warcraft 3? You're thinking of Kel'thuzad, who is just a human mage/necromancer who the Lich King totally loves and so he makes him into an awesome lich. No trolls included.
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Jun 18, 2016 00:56
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Gul'dan in the original story is murdered (can't recall by who, but I imagine it's either Doomhammer or Thrall) and his skull is consumed by the writer's DeviantArt OC to give him ~demon powers~ to fight demons with
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Jun 18, 2016 01:28
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ungulateman posted:Gul'dan in the original story is murdered (can't recall by who, but I imagine it's either Doomhammer or Thrall) and his skull is consumed by the writer's DeviantArt OC to give him ~demon powers~ to fight demons with Guldan was eaten by a swarm of random demons when thrall was like 5 years old, RIP to him he was the only good character
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Jun 18, 2016 01:38
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