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How will you be voting in the UKEU Referendum? This poll is closed. |
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| Remain - Keep Britane Strong! |
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328 | 15.40% |
| Leave - Take Are Sovreignity Back! |
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115 | 5.40% |
| Remain - But only because Brexit are crazy |
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506 | 23.76% |
| Leave - But only because the EU is terrible |
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157 | 7.37% |
| Spoiled Ballot - This whole thing is an awful idea |
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61 | 2.86% |
| I'm not going to vote |
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19 | 0.89% |
| I'm not allowed to vote |
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411 | 19.30% |
| Pissflaps |
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533 | 25.02% |
| Total: | 2130 votes | ||
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Gorn Myson posted:He was a lone wolf. You can't claim his political affiliations or nationalist views had influenced his decisions. Unlike those loving Muslims of course, who are all responsible for each other and all worship a hateful religious ideology. Additionally, he was a total mentally ill madman mad person. Unlike any terrorists that are muslim, of course, who are all paragons of sanity.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:54
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Oberleutnant posted:The Graun is really pushing the line that the political class is a kind of persecuted minority - hounded by a spiteful, irrational, ungrateful and infantile public at the moment. simon jenkins is blaming social media e: before social media apparently there were checks and balances to stop the hatespeech getting out of control (by ensuring it only appears on the front pages of tabloids)
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Jun 17, 2016 14:56
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Phoon posted:simon jenkins is blaming social media where's bse I think the "blame everyone but ourselves" game is now fully established a solid 20 hours after she's dead. this country is genuinely sick
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Jun 17, 2016 14:58
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Phoon posted:simon jenkins is blaming social media You see the same thing with gun control too - nobody is prepared for the horrifying possibility of actually struggling to improve social relations, so instead we just ban guns and regulate social media. We accept that our society is full of broken people, but the only way we can think of dealing with it is to isolate them so that their fury (which we will make no effort to remedy) is impotent lol
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Jun 17, 2016 15:01
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Social media is to blame for the neo-nazi literature he ordered in 1999. Social media is to blame for the austerity that closed and hamstrung Pathways Centres in the past 5 years. Social media is to blame for austerity being blamed on scroungers or even on politicians instead of on the capitalist system. Social media is to blame for the referendum campaigns being a polarized wad of lies and hate. Social media is to blame for those at the bottom feeling so isolated from the system that they consider terrorism before talking. Social media is to blame.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:02
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More good stuff from James O'Brien.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:03
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Angepain posted:Additionally, he was a total mentally ill madman mad person. Unlike any terrorists that are muslim, of course, who are all paragons of sanity. Yep, his own brother said he had OCD and OCD sufferers are renowned for their violent tendencies.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:05
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 Also apparently Nicola Sturgeon is preparing to negotiate with Brussels for maintaining Scotland's EU membership in the event of a Brexit.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:10
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Enoch Powell was right. Where else on the spectrum would you put him?
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Jun 17, 2016 15:13
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Oberleutnant posted:The Graun is really pushing the line that the political class is a kind of persecuted minority - hounded by a spiteful, irrational, ungrateful and infantile public at the moment. Read "class is a persecuted minority" and was feeling positive until I came down to earth with a bump
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Jun 17, 2016 15:17
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Coohoolin posted:Also apparently Nicola Sturgeon is preparing to negotiate with Brussels for maintaining Scotland's EU membership in the event of a Brexit. She's not allowed to. Foreign affairs are a reserved matter and Scotland doesn't have an EU membership to maintain.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:20
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Oberleutnant posted:The Graun is really pushing the line that the political class is a kind of persecuted minority - hounded by a spiteful, irrational, ungrateful and infantile public at the moment. That reminds me that John Harris has another brilliant piece in the Graun today: Britain is in the midst of a working-class revolt posted:Hardly anybody talks about the official campaigns, and the most a mention of the respective figureheads of each camp tends to elicit is a dismissive tut – but just about everyone agrees that this is a fantastically important moment, and a litmus test of the national mood. I skipped plenty, but it's well worth reading.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:26
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Pissflaps posted:She's not allowed to. Foreign affairs are a reserved matter and Scotland doesn't have an EU membership to maintain. They're entering talks in case an Independence referendum can be called so they won't be too far down the list or so they can make a case to the government that it'd be possible to negotiate an agreement like Greenland where Scotland would remain in the EU while the rest of the UK would leave.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:31
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Tesseraction posted:That reminds me that John Harris has another brilliant piece in the Graun today: it's a great article. he's probably the last decent journalist left at the guardian
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Jun 17, 2016 15:34
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Fans posted:They're entering talks in case an Independence referendum can be called so they won't be too far down the list or so they can make a case to the government that it'd be possible to negotiate an agreement like Greenland where Scotland would remain in the EU while the rest of the UK would leave. It doesn't change the fact that: She's not allowed to. Foreign affairs are a reserved matter and Scotland doesn't have an EU membership to maintain.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:36
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yes, because in 1962 - when the Keynesian state and the full-employment postwar boom it helmed was at the acme of its power and glory - Britain was so welcoming that it certainly didn't pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act I mean, really, think a little
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Jun 17, 2016 15:39
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Metrication posted:it's a great article. he's probably the last decent journalist left at the guardian And he's the only one who talks to the plebs on the ground, funny that!
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Jun 17, 2016 15:40
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Pissflaps posted:It doesn't change the fact that: she probably is and probably doesnt care what you or the british parliament think of the matter
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Jun 17, 2016 15:41
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ronya posted:yes, because in 1962 - when the Keynesian state and the full-employment postwar boom it helmed was at the acme of its power and glory - Britain was so welcoming that it certainly didn't pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act what's this in reply to
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Jun 17, 2016 15:42
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Pesmerga posted:This is also a pretty good article on what's happening here. Excellent read, thanks for linking. It doesn't make the comparison explicit but the way it describes the feelings behind English nationalism makes it sound like it comes from the same place as "where's white history month/international men's day/etc", which I think is on the money tbh.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:43
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Pissflaps posted:It doesn't change the fact that: Is there a law preventing her from talking with the EU about potential deals in the future if Scotland can claim Independence or petitioning them to talk with the UK government about a Greenland style split? Because that's her plan. The government might not like her doing this, but I don't think they can actually stop her doing it.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:45
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Spangly A posted:she probably is and probably doesnt care what you or the british parliament think of the matter She'd also be showing herself not to care what most people who voted in the Scottish independence referendum think either. I hope Cameron can do the same with his referendum if the result doesn't go the way I like.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:45
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Tesseraction posted:what's this in reply to the article, Ronya's point is that people just loving hate immigrants regardless of the economy (the commonwealth immigration act was heavily amended because of strong anti-immigrant sentiment despite the booming economy). If ronya's point was instead that citizens income wouldn't stop violence then loving lol and get back in your comfort zone Pissflaps posted:She'd also be showing herself not to care what most people who voted in the Scottish independence referendum think either. the context has quite clearly changed and this is acknowledged by the fact that they'd be having another referendum also, he can, he will
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Jun 17, 2016 15:45
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pissflaps seems to be misapplying part 7 of this section of the Scottish Parliaments Act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/schedule/5
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Jun 17, 2016 15:46
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Fans posted:Is there a law preventing her from talking with the EU about potential deals in the future if Scotland can claim Independence or petitioning them to talk with the UK government about a Greenland style split? I imagine there is some sort of rule that requires the EU not to undermine national sovereignty yes.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:47
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Pissflaps posted:I imagine there is some sort of rule that requires the EU not to undermine national sovereignty yes. no, there isn't, they frequently do this. Greece and Portugal are the first two to spring to mind.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:47
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flaps you are all over the place today. get it together
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Jun 17, 2016 15:48
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Spangly A posted:the context has quite clearly changed and this is acknowledged by the fact that they'd be having another referendum Why are you assuming there'd be another referendum? There's no referendum planned.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:48
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Spangly A posted:the article, Ronya's point is that people just loving hate immigrants regardless of the economy (the commonwealth immigration act was heavily amended because of strong anti-immigrant sentiment despite the booming economy). and john harris specifically talks about the fact that unease has always been in the air and it's the unwillingness of politicians to address it that feeds the anger I mean yes you can point to the British population always being racist but wow do you need a cookie, his point wasn't that a lovely economy makes people racist it's just that under a lovely economy people are much more likely to be incensed about it
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Jun 17, 2016 15:48
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Pissflaps posted:Why are you assuming there'd be another referendum? There's no referendum planned. because Scotland in the EU vs the UK is a different question to Scotland in the UK y/n and one people will probably want asked, flaps
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Jun 17, 2016 15:49
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Yeah, I just read that John Harris piece. He's consistently quite good. The political class have done a terrible job of actually looking after vulnerable people, be they the unemployed, long-term ill, mentally ill, and not just the precariat but also the traditional working class. Job security has largely disappeared, temporary contracts, zero hour contracts, and yes, an extensive economic realignment focusing heavily on financial services based in one small area of the country which has left an awful lot of people feel disenfranchised. And people feeling disenfranchised is inevitably going to lead to an increase of people looking at extreme ideas. And since frankly the left seems moribund at this point when it comes to actually making the case for its ideas in an effective idea it is hardly surprising that we are seeing a rise in fascism, & fascist violence. But the problem is that there's no easy answers. The left needs to present its ideas in a way that is more attractive than the sort of knee-jerk otherising of people & then throwing the blame for all our problems on whoever those others may be. I have no loving idea how they do that. Does the left need to embrace a form of isolationism, if not outright xenophobia? It's either that or liberals do the sort of self-reflection on the past 35-40 years of neo-liberal orthodoxy which thus far they've seemed incapable of. Is this the right time to talk about it? Well if liberals are insisting the blame is just social media then I don't know when else you can talk about.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:49
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Spangly A posted:because Scotland in the EU vs the UK is a different question to Scotland in the UK y/n and one people will probably want asked, flaps That was already asked 18 months ago.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:50
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Pissflaps posted:That was already asked 18 months ago. no it wasn't, the UK was still in the EU mate you're flailing here
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Jun 17, 2016 15:51
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Pissflaps posted:That was already asked 18 months ago. The dynamics of EU integration in the event of UK leaving the EU makes it a fundamentally different question.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:51
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flaps showing cracks after 14 years of troll free pedantry? this referendum holds no hostage
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Jun 17, 2016 15:52
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forkboy84 posted:But the problem is that there's no easy answers. The left needs to present its ideas in a way that is more attractive than the sort of knee-jerk otherising of people & then throwing the blame for all our problems on whoever those others may be. I have no loving idea how they do that. Does the left need to embrace a form of isolationism, if not outright xenophobia? It's either that or liberals do the sort of self-reflection on the past 35-40 years of neo-liberal orthodoxy which thus far they've seemed incapable of. Is this the right time to talk about it? Well if liberals are insisting the blame is just social media then I don't know when else you can talk about. The simple answer is that you cannot solve the problem in one country. A Certain Josef S. believed in this kind of solution and it wasn't particularly pleasant for those involved. An international coalition of labour movements would be your best bet. But good luck with that we're loving doomed! yaaaaaaaaay
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Jun 17, 2016 15:55
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Spangly A posted:no it wasn't, the UK was still in the EU The question of Scotland staying in the UK or not was asked and answered 18 months ago. That's why Sturgeon doesn't get to negotiate with Brussels.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:59
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Pissflaps posted:The question of Scotland staying in the UK or not was asked and answered 18 months ago. Not on the same terms. Yes she does.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:00
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Pesmerga posted:Not on the same terms. The 'terms' are always changing. I don't think we'll be having another referendum on anything for a while.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:02
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Pissflaps posted:The 'terms' are always changing. you're right in that you certainly won't have a say in the matter
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Jun 17, 2016 16:03
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