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Your character breathes loudly while in a closet, no reason to open them to check.
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Jun 18, 2016 11:14
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Free Triangle posted:Your character breathes loudly while in a closet, no reason to open them to check. Only when injured. I've stood still to listen for the noise from a closet I knew there was a survivor in. Nothing at all. Probably gave him the heebie-jeebies in the process.  QUICK EDIT: Maybe also after they've been sprinting, perhaps?
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Jun 18, 2016 11:17
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I think the breathing starts up if you're in it too long. But that's what I mean. If he's listening for your breathing, you shouldn't have gotten int he closet. THe closet is a way to make yourself invisible when the killer is looking at you but not looking for you. Like, for example, when your teammate blows the generator you're on and you hear the heartbeat coming. You jump in the closet and when he gets there he's going to see one survivor. He's not gonna second guess, he's gonna go after him. If you're not invisible, he might see you first. I'm starting to get pretty decent at survivor and, just to prove my point, I'm not window-cheesing. I'll pallet cheese just cause it's so stupid and failure-prone I consider it fair. But it's working. The games I win the killer never even sees me. Stealth is more fun than cheese and isn't a crutch that'll be taken away, but the real advantage of cheese is points. I'm winning a fair number of my survivor games but I'm not getting any loving pips because I don't play grabass with the killer and pull people off hooks while he's standing next to me.
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Jun 18, 2016 11:33
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Mister Bup posted:These survivors are not nearly clever enough to pull the poo poo they're trying to pull. WHat sucks is they usually manage it anyway cause the latency and hit detection is so broken. Have you had the thing where they follow you to the hook and start unhooking the guy before the animation is even finished? That one shouldn't go very well cause interrupting the unhook is an insta-down, but insta-downs never actually work. If they're in there long enough the breathing starts up. If they're in there longer, the crows start to gather on the locker and follow the player until they do something useful. There's also a good chance if you spook multiple players and one of them disappeared too quickly they were in a closet. Every few games I can catch someone just on a hunch. I've been running into Survivors that can get 3-4 generators done within 2 minutes lately with two of my matches done in less than 3. I legitimately like this game, but it's starting to feel like they maybe should have did more beta testing.
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Jun 18, 2016 13:33
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It's really kind of weird how balanced in favor of the survivors this game is. It almost feels like the killer's underpowered.
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Jun 18, 2016 15:55
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:It's really kind of weird how balanced in favor of the survivors this game is. It almost feels like the killer's underpowered. Eh, depends on how you rate a "win". It is hard to kill all four people, but if you get even one then you still technically win.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:17
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:It's really kind of weird how balanced in favor of the survivors this game is. It almost feels like the killer's underpowered. What's really funny is that if you look at the Steam forums they're just as adamant that the killer is OP.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:19
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Saw a rank 12 survivor today. He yanked the cord when I hit him once.  What are the penalties for disconnecting / quitting a match? I hope he didn't get to keep his toolbox or points, at the very least.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:29
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You count as dead and receive 0 blood points so he lost a rank shard and anything he was carrying
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Jun 18, 2016 17:37
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Spy_Guy posted:Saw a rank 12 survivor today. He yanked the cord when I hit him once. He gains literally nothing, I don't understand why he would DC unless you were actively trolling him
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Jun 18, 2016 18:00
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It takes a huge amount of points away from the killer, so it's basically just a "you're better than me, so I'm going to retaliate and hurt your score". So, just like most games, it's a way to be a massive dickhead that the devs didn't put a stop to, so people abuse it.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:05
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He might just know that the killer loses out. If the killer disconnects, then the survivors keep their pips. If a survivor DC's you lose all points you could have gotten from that survivor.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:08
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:He might just know that the killer loses out. If the killer disconnects, then the survivors keep their pips. If a survivor DC's you lose all points you could have gotten from that survivor. Don't you still get the No One Escaped bonus if you do get the rest of them?
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Jun 18, 2016 18:15
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I believe so, yeah. I meant to say points you actually extract from that player... by force.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:16
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I believe so, yeah. I meant to say points you actually extract from that player... by force. It would all depend on if you want to be efficient or just want to kill the gently caress outta them. Also, consider demolishing any pallets after a successful hook. You know, to keep your work station clean.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:25
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Speaking of annoying rank crybabies, I killed Admiral Bahroo on his Road to Rank 1 stream. He got body-blocked trying to cheese me in the foundry and then I faked him out and killed him once he was up there. Since his buttboys had been sabotaging hooks I had to camp his body. Worth. He blamed his team for not bumrushing me as three to revive him. Streamers. 
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Jun 18, 2016 19:22
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As the killer when do you keep your addons? I've gotten two kills and lost them so that isn't the exact criteria as I thought.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:43
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SoggyGravy posted:As the killer when do you keep your addons? from what I've heard, never sucks
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Jun 18, 2016 19:44
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There's a purple offering called black ward that lets you keep your add-ons for that round. That's the only way.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:46
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Mister Bup posted:Speaking of annoying rank crybabies, I killed Admiral Bahroo on his Road to Rank 1 stream. He got body-blocked trying to cheese me in the foundry and then I faked him out and killed him once he was up there. Since his buttboys had been sabotaging hooks I had to camp his body. Worth. He blamed his team for not bumrushing me as three to revive him. Streamers. I got temp banned from his chat today for pointing out that his fanbase will praise him for abusing the poo poo out of certain window areas yet immediately lose their poo poo and trash talk a killer for camping the hook when he gets caught. I wasn't polite about it, but whatever. I also asked Elajjaz to honestly speak on how much of getting rank 1 survivor is vault cheese and how much is actual skill, and of course his asinine logic was that if you take away cheese the survivors have nothing. It's either in or it's out. Y'know because there's no way to compromise for the sake of balance. Survivors should totally have safe areas. That's my main problem right now. Survivors actually WANT killers to find them so they can farm some boldness points. There are too many areas where survivors feel safe when there should be no such thing. Fresh Shesh Besh fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 19:47
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I've unlocked a stealth perk for the killer which makes the heartbeat go away if you stand still for 6 seconds. It honestly feels like it breaks the game. I suppose it's countered by the survivor perk that alert them when the killer looks in their direction, but that's the kind of thing people won't have room to equip before they have more perk slots.Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I got temp banned from his chat today for pointing out that his fanbase will praise him for abusing the poo poo out of certain window areas yet immediately lose their poo poo and trash talk a killer for camping the hook when he gets caught. Good on you. I caught my first window cheeser today, and hook camping him was incredibly satisfying. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 19:48
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gently caress you for having that. I got it at level 3 but I was an idiot and didn't take it until last so the entity ate it. How does it work? Forcing you to stand still seems like it'd make it of limited usefulness, but basement camping would be unreal with it. Head halfway up the stairs, disappear, wait for somebody to come around the corner. Never rescue basement victims guys.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:51
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I feel like the express purpose of Insidious is for hook camping, and in the basement it is insane. It's a toss up whether people fall for it above ground though. I wouldn't use it until I have multiple perk slots.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:54
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Any hook camping gets nuts with insidious. It's particularly insane with hillbilly because people don't expect him to have any dirty tricks.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:55
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Mister Bup posted:gently caress you for having that. I got it at level 3 but I was an idiot and didn't take it until last so the entity ate it. How does it work? Forcing you to stand still seems like it'd make it of limited usefulness, but basement camping would be unreal with it. Head halfway up the stairs, disappear, wait for somebody to come around the corner. Never rescue basement victims guys. It triggers after 6 seconds of not movement. There's an icon and particle effects that both tell you when it's active. You can still pivot and look around. I'm not sure what you look like to survivors when it's on. It doesn't just trivialize basement camping, it's really powerful with tall cover like the cornfield and trees. I've been using it next to half finished generators to Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 19:58
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I got temp banned from his chat today for pointing out that his fanbase will praise him for abusing the poo poo out of certain window areas yet immediately lose their poo poo and trash talk a killer for camping the hook when he gets caught.  If it's a good killer and you took out windows and pallets then the survivors die every time they're seen. You'd have to do something like remove all alerts and/or the sprint trail to balance it at that point and then it's a different game.I don't really complain about either hook camping or window cheese though. I will complain that killers should get more points, because it is much harder for them to get a pip given equal skill levels than it is for the survivors even without the survivor resorting to boldness spam.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:01
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I've directly observed a trapper using insidious and it doesn't change your appearance outwardly at all, at least not from the range I was observing him from. e: and yeah without cheesing windows, literally the only two ways I've been able to get away from a competent killer is to get them with a killer stun and then immediately disappear around a few corners, or take a hit from the killer and use the speed boost to disappear around a few corners. The sprint trail is such that you actively require like 2 tight corners to confuse the killer long enough to get some distance. This isn't a huge problem on most of the Autohaven Wrecker maps, but on Coldwind Farm it's actually an extremely tall order. I agree window cheesing is super lame but if it gets removed somehow the survivors need something else to compensate. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 20:02
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I got temp banned from his chat today for pointing out that his fanbase will praise him for abusing the poo poo out of certain window areas yet immediately lose their poo poo and trash talk a killer for camping the hook when he gets caught. I figured that was coming. I mean it's true, most of these survivors are barely clever enough to do the cheese on its own. I catch most of them when they try to do it in the barricades, they're wising up to the jukespots though. Smart devs, fix the jukeshack just to add new worse ones in every match. Part of the problem is the way the points work. They set it up so you get the most points for playing along with the slasher movie feel, with close calls and heroic rescues and daring escapes, except nobody gives a poo poo about that, they just want to win, and when you make them do dumb poo poo for it they find dumb ways to do it. There was a point in the Bahroo game where he was chasing me because he didn't have enough boldness points yet and I stopped chasing him. The system's broke.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:08
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UberJew posted:
Vaulting needs a skill check where you slow-vault if you mess up. Add a little risk for something that has a high reward.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:09
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Donnerberg posted:Vaulting needs a skill check where you slow-vault if you mess up. Add a little risk for something that has a high reward. There already is, you can forget to hold your shift key like I've done plenty of times  The one fix that's definitely needed is fixing the buildings with too many god drat windows next to each other. The building with a line of three and the silo with two next to each other and the two story building on estate f.ex
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Jun 18, 2016 20:12
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Skill checks take too long to resolve to even handle normal window usage, so that wouldn't be fantastic. And again, how do you recommend survivors get away from a chasing killer, ideally? What constitutes good play? I haven't seen anyone on any forum propose something that sounded good and fun with that so far.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:15
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It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the big setpiece buildings which are all hosed up like that. If they fixed those then it'd be an annoying but manageable tactic like fishing for stuns on the pallets. Can work if you're squirrely enough but easy to gently caress you over. Just board all the windows up on large buildings and add a procedural gen to unboard random ones at a suitable distance from each other. Give it an element of risk cause you don't know which is gonna be open. They're getting smarter every day. First they cheesed the windows in the barricade mazes, I started getting them every time. Then they started stun-fishing, figured that one out too. Now people are camping the big buildings almost every game and I don't think the killer has any way of dealing with this aside from trapping it ahead of time. Mister Bup fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 20:15
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As a survivor I typically scope out an area before settling in to touch a generator so I have a plan a for if the killer shows up. Changing those set pieces means my scouting would take a second or two longer and that's pretty much it.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:20
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The point is to get rid of the infinite juke loops which can make it impossible for the killer to catch you in a certain area. While you're chasing him the other three are getting generators. When you wisely break off to find someone else, he starts juke-looping you too. Against the best teams all four of them will be doing this and then they start chasing you, cause they haven't clowned enough points out of you. What I do is break line of sight, stop god drat running, and find a concealed place to hide and change direction. Killer has tunnel vision, if you can get far enough from his cone of sight he'll lose track of you. It's not perfect, but if the only solution is to abuse cheese spots that make it impossible for the killer to catch you then there's some fundamental design issues that need to be worked out.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:26
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Coolguye posted:Skill checks take too long to resolve to even handle normal window usage, so that wouldn't be fantastic. And again, how do you recommend survivors get away from a chasing killer, ideally? What constitutes good play? I haven't seen anyone on any forum propose something that sounded good and fun with that so far. Maybe a stamina meter instead, that'd run out of you tried to vault infinitely? I don't know. I think vaulting to throw the killer off is absolutely necessary and good play, and the killer shouldn't obsess with one guy, but split his attention evenly to all his babies. It's a problem when it's being gamed for points or when you're down to the last survivor, who puts the match in a stalemate.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:27
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UberJew posted:
But what I'm saying is it doesn't need to be taken out, just altered. Change some of the major buildings and make it something actually manageable by the killer. As it stands good survivors escape the killer by frustrating him rather than actually using any sort of stealth or cunning.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:30
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Mister Bup posted:What I do is break line of sight, stop god drat running, and find a concealed place to hide and change direction. Killer has tunnel vision, if you can get far enough from his cone of sight he'll lose track of you. It's not perfect, but if the only solution is to abuse cheese spots that make it impossible for the killer to catch you then there's some fundamental design issues that need to be worked out. And truthfully, if you have 3-4 seconds on the killer you have pretty much already gotten away anyway. That said, if you are in a constricted area and make a couple of turns this works great, because the scratches are so wide that it gets confusing to tell which way you went, and that gets you a couple of seconds to put some actual distance between you and the killer. However, constricted areas like that are actually not the norm in the game, and are practically nonexistent in Coldwind Farm. Donnerberg posted:Maybe a stamina meter instead, that'd run out of you tried to vault infinitely? I don't know. I think vaulting to throw the killer off is absolutely necessary and good play, and the killer shouldn't obsess with one guy, but split his attention evenly to all his babies. Fresh Shesh Besh posted:But what I'm saying is it doesn't need to be taken out, just altered. Change some of the major buildings and make it something actually manageable by the killer. As it stands good survivors escape the killer by frustrating him rather than actually using any sort of stealth or cunning. You don't need any specific window to cheese. Some are easier than others with longer walls attached to them, but this doesn't address what people are complaining about at all, really.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:39
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Donnerberg posted:Maybe a stamina meter instead, that'd run out of you tried to vault infinitely? Exactly this seems logical. A stamina meter for vaulting seems like a great compromise . Or maybe even some mechanic that doesn't let you vault through the same window over and over again in quick succession. Something like an increasing chance to stumble the more times you jump through the same opening that cools off relatively quickly.
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Jun 18, 2016 20:44
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H2SO4 posted:Exactly this seems logical. A stamina meter for vaulting seems like a great compromise . Or maybe even some mechanic that doesn't let you vault through the same window over and over again in quick succession. Something like an increasing chance to stumble the more times you jump through the same opening that cools off relatively quickly. I actually really like the idea of stumbling if you do stupid poo poo too long. It fits the theme and punishes cheese. I've also had to start hook camping. Survivors are quickly figuring out the dumb gimmicks and spamming tool kits and medkits. Hell, I kind of think generators need a look. More than a few rounds, by the time I drop a trap and grab another at start I'm already down 2 gens lately.
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Jun 18, 2016 21:03
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So, I can't seem to get any utility out of the Deerstalker perk. How long do you have to be standing still to detect injured people? I've got the 2nd level of it and it hasn't felt terribly useful. Edit: You have no idea how immensely satisfying this offering is:  loving brutal, too. H2SO4 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 21:07
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