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The Lone Badger posted:Is there any way to ask a faction to stop being at war with a third faction? I only seem to be able to ask them to break treaties, not sign treaties. The only way I can think of is to vassalise them, sorry.
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Jun 19, 2016 12:57
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So I've just started my first orc campaign and it's all cool except my waaaghs keep randomly dissipating even when they have plenty of fightiness and I don't get why. For example I'd just used one to occupy some smaller settlement, checked it and it had like 99 point on the bar. Clicked end turn then got a pop up saying the Waaagh was finished. Is there some mechanic I'm missing or is it a bug? Seen it happen a few times now.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:40
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Wafflecopper posted:
(Chaos starts out fun but it's a stupid grind for the back third.)
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Jun 19, 2016 13:44
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The AI uses cavalry effectively!
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KM Scorchio posted:So I've just started my first orc campaign and it's all cool except my waaaghs keep randomly dissipating even when they have plenty of fightiness and I don't get why. For example I'd just used one to occupy some smaller settlement, checked it and it had like 99 point on the bar. Clicked end turn then got a pop up saying the Waaagh was finished. Is there some mechanic I'm missing or is it a bug? Seen it happen a few times now. Did the original army fall below 17 (I think that's the right number) units?
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Jun 19, 2016 13:45
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Shumagorath posted:First reply good second reply bad Yeah i myself find Chaos to be the most unfun faction in this game as well, its as if they dialed back some of the mechanics to old style total war where replenishment is atrocious again and that just eats away most of the fun for me. That and chaos having no real tools for dealing with skirmishers, which makes crushing the north a slog with all those marauder horsemen.. the dogs aren't enough, and throwing your own skirmishers at them takes ages.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:53
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Fangz posted:Did the original army fall below 17 (I think that's the right number) units? Pretty sure I didn't lose anything that turn... Think I might have a save I can hop back to and check.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:55
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Shumagorath posted:First reply good second reply bad Yeah my biggest issues with Chaos are the Norscan grind then trying to battle 2-4 southron stacks at a time while avoiding excessive infighting. Chaos always deathballs against you, but you definitely can't put four stacks together like that. I countered agent spam with a couple assassination specced Exalted Heroes.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:55
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Chaos is loving rad to play. You just move and crush. Merge units and buy replacements. 99 percent of them take one turn and if you upgrade your horde properly you can hire 5 units a turn. gently caress replenishment. Its for Empire pussies.
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Jun 19, 2016 13:59
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Also how are people winning VC long at turn 80? poo poo took me 200+.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:04
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Shumagorath posted:First reply good second reply bad I had fun with Chaos but regardless, playing a campaign you're not enjoying to completion then complaining that you HAD TO is stupid. If it stops being fun, stop playing. It's not loving rocket science.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:05
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Blacktoll posted:Chaos is loving rad to play. You just move and crush. Merge units and buy replacements. 99 percent of them take one turn and if you upgrade your horde properly you can hire 5 units a turn. Except it also happens to your LL which you cannot merge or replace.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:07
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Chaos would be infinitely more fun to play if replenishment were a little bit forgiving(so your LL isn't sidelined for 15 turns if he happens to get hosed up one time) and if Norscans weren't the worst loving awful thing in the game. Chaos vs Empire or VCs or Dwarfs is fun. Actually, is there anyone who doesn't loving hate the Norscans? They're like a black hole of annoying army compositions and lovely infinite raiding stacks that never go away unless you genocide the entire northern half of the map and their restricted roster means that the only non-horribly-tedious way to fight them without autoresolve is giant stacks of crossbowmen. I wish they had Chaos Warriors or something so they'd actually form real armies instead of "8 marauder horse, 3 warhounds, 5 chariots, 3 trolls, and a lord. ok we're good let's go!"
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Jun 19, 2016 14:10
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The most effective defensive strategy is to make your opponent not want to fight you in the first place. Really it's a new level of tactical genius that I think we've all failed to properly appreciate.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:20
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I'm not sure what the real complaint is? That the mary sue LL isn't at perfect health every two, three rounds?
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Jun 19, 2016 14:21
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Grumio posted:Any tips for Orcs? I got grimgor and a Waagh going early and conquered red fang + top knots to consolidate some power, but Thorgrim, Ungrim and several other dwarf stacks are just rolling in and wiping me out. I can't make a stand against them. Did I just have an unlucky start or should I leave the badlands alone and concentrate on dwarfs early? One of the worst things about Orcs (and that's saying a lot because the Orcs are kicking rad) is that Boyz are useless. Rush immediatly to get Big-uns because they're the only units that can deal with Dwarves. The Boars have armor piercing but they're only for charging. They are slow and their meele presence is terrible. Charge, stay there for 5 seconds, flee regroup and recharge. Preferably to the backs of the stunties. This is the cunningly brutal part. The Brutally cunning part comes from the night goblins. Since they can vanguard deploy and they're invisible up almost until they reach the enemy lines you can recruit three or for units of them and place them in an ambushing position so they can strike at the dwarves' rear when the lines collide. They have poison weapons so if a single soldier of a unit is attacked the entire unit gets -25% on basically all of their skills. Wolves are very fragile but they're lighting fast and again, vanguard. Place them on ambushing positions and let them eat artillery dudes for breakfast. Goblin Spearmen can can be kinda useful. Buy two units, stretch them reaaaaaaaal wide and put them in front of your line to absorb enemy fire. As long as the AI shoots them they're not shooting Big Uns.´ Grimgor should also be 100% focused on the personal combat skills. Ignore all other skill trees because Grimgor's thing is that he's a one man army.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:24
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Blacktoll posted:I'm not sure what the real complaint is? That the mary sue LL isn't at perfect health every two, three rounds? Mannfred can just heal up at the beginning of the fight actually.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:27
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I'd love if Chaos got some kind of "Sack and Raze" option that just gives you some money instead of the growth bonus. I ended up dropping my last Chaos campaign towards the end because I basically had to conquer every settlement twice in a row. Once to Sack to keep me solvent, and once to raze it so I actually made headway towards eradicating the southern factions. That just turned into a real slow drag really quickly.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:27
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Blacktoll posted:I'm not sure what the real complaint is? That the mary sue LL isn't at perfect health every two, three rounds? Uh, that he'll be slowly ground down into beefpatty is the complaint, and there is no real relief to this, unless you hike it all the way back to the north. So much for the "badass" chaos horde, you have to play them more defensively than your "pussy" empire. Perestroika posted:I'd love if Chaos got some kind of "Sack and Raze" option that just gives you some money instead of the growth bonus. I ended up dropping my last Chaos campaign towards the end because I basically had to conquer every settlement twice in a row. Once to Sack to keep me solvent, and once to raze it so I actually made headway towards eradicating the southern factions. That just turned into a real slow drag really quickly. Id love if Raze also gave a direct replenisment 'heal' much like eat/dominate captives do for the other factions besides the extra horde growth.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:29
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Shumagorath posted:Also how are people winning VC long at turn 80? poo poo took me 200+. I have no idea. It took me 40 or 50 turns to even get any kind of stable economy going with them. I'm at turn 80 or so in my vc very hard campaign right now bogged down in the north. There's like 6 half stacks of chaos raiding that won't fight, and if I block / chase them, the others start to go after my cities. It's like the kids on the play ground are playing keep away. The way that every enemy army is just out of reach and even if it's not that they take two battles to totally destroy is probably my least favorite thing about the game. In my game the dwarfs are having a huge brawl over the south - there are no other factions left in the badlands / mountains just greenskins and dwarfs with 20ish regions each. They each have multiple full stacks running around, taking and retaking cities and razing / sacking and rebuilding. It's actually kind of cool to watch and way more interesting than the pathetic keep away games of chaos. I don't know why the ai can't do that well when it's fighting against a human opponent
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Jun 19, 2016 14:30
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Shumagorath posted:Also how are people winning VC long at turn 80? poo poo took me 200+. I'm guessing they've been lucky and other AI factions have cleared their victory conditions for them. I'm at turn 100 and not even close to finishing.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:40
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After playing a lot of Chaos recently, I think the biggest issue for them is just autoresolve mauling single model units really. It effects everyone but it's the worst for Chaos because outside of friendly settlements you'll never see again after leaving the north your Lords and Heroes will basically never get their health back, (250 HP per turn while encamped, yay!) I've had Sigvald sitting at 300 HP after autoresolving two easy garrison fights and that dude is literally invulnerable in real fights. For your regular units it doesn't even matter, merge and replace, you can one turn half a stack of gold chevron units anyway so who loving cares. If autoresolve gets fixed I can see Chaos being way less of a slog to play.
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Jun 19, 2016 14:54
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Yeah replenishing lords and heroes is hard as Chaos, but I was pretty much crushing battles with my 16 units of Chosen anyway. It wasn't that big an issue. I rolled with the sorcerer lords generally, so their low hp didn't matter, though it did mean Sigvald took more of a back seat after Kislev. (Hilariously my late game was entirely Sigvald off on his own trying to complete his insanely hard quests, while my two sorcerers actually went off to win the game... Rather fitting I guess.) One thing that might help people that I found out late is that you can ally with the vampire counts or the orcs, and they will give you speedy replenishment on their soil. (Even with vampiric attrition. Encamp to avoid that.) The vampires will resettle or occupy imperial towns, which saves you the worry of Empire re-emerging. Empire minors that are hostile to Karl Franz will also do that but they will never ally with you. Otherwise, yeah, get out of Norsca the moment you stop having fun there. Don't try to build the unified crazy viking superstate. Chaos doesn't have to be a slog if you just focus on your objectives. Edit: A thought on replenishing lords: if you replace the Lord on an army, does this mean they return to the roster and get healed up? That might be worth trying. Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 14:55
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Blacktoll posted:I'm not sure what the real complaint is? That the mary sue LL isn't at perfect health every two, three rounds? Every other faction in the game gets "mary sue LLs"(??? what the gently caress does that mean in this context) at perfect health every two or three rounds because every other faction has reasonable replenishment rates. You can have Franz or Grimgor get smashed down to the verge of death and they'll be right as rain after 2-4 turns of sitting in a town, and that's not even approaching the Vampire "yeah I went into this battle at 1% health and walked out with 100% because I cast Nehek a couple times". It's only Chaos that has to deal with "well, Archaon got spirit leeched twice so now he's either walking back up to the north or I'm just not using him for the next 10 turns". Heroes are one of the coolest things about the game and Chaos has some of the best, you shouldn't feel punished for wanting to commit them to combat. The poo poo replenishment doesn't matter for Chaos units because they have an easier time simply merging and re-recruiting, but they really need some kind of bonus to hero healing.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:02
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Kanos posted:the Vampire "yeah I went into this battle at 1% health and walked out with 100% because I cast Nehek a couple times" Add in the hunger and a necromancer healing aura and you're even more correct, Vampires replenishment is nuts.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:14
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I see, people feel very strongly about legendary lords not healing as fast as others. CA, get on this stat.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:15
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Blacktoll posted:I see, people feel very strongly about legendary lords not healing as fast as others. CA, get on this stat. I am 100% sure you've never played Chaos.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:24
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So I'm finishing up my greenskin campaign, pushing north of the black mountains after killing Kholek, Archaon and Birddemon and uh Jesus Christ, Chaos  I razed the Border Princes and the three settlements the vampires were down to (Essen, Eschen and Waldenhof), everything else was Chaos. Southern Grey Mountains were razed too, I only just colonised them. Carroburg is Bretonnia, as far as I can tell Empire and its minors are all extinct. Blacktoll posted:I see, people feel very strongly about legendary lords not healing as fast as others. CA, get on this stat. It's not just LLs, autoresolve hates all single model units and it's really obnoxious. It's just extra annoying as Chaos because you don't have friendly towns to heal up in unless you head all the way back to Norsca. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 15:33
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My favorite is that heroes with healing potions and stuff won't even drink them in an auto-resolve. *Initiates battle with overwhelming odds against lovely garrison force* Sorcerer man at 25% ------> Auto-resolve ------> now at 10% health Sorcerer man at 25% ------> Fight Battle -------> now at 60% health
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Jun 19, 2016 15:52
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Okay, just checked. Lords sent to the roster using the replace Lord function heal to full, but it takes five turns before they can be used again. This can be much better than sitting and waiting for replenishment though.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:54
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CA Official is doing some kind of MP tournament thing right now. https://www.twitch.tv/totalwarofficial
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Jun 19, 2016 15:55
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Any indication from CA as to when the patch is going to hit? I'm sure they said Directx 12 was coming 'soon' after launch but haven't seen any more on that front either.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:58
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Seems like it can be quite efficient to have a b-team Lord to swap in for Kholek and the others when they get hurt - you can also use this to train up a guy to have the horde growth skills the moment you create a horde, thus speeding up your development. Dang, wish I thought of this earlier. This might work for other factions as well.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:00
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madmac posted:I am 100% sure you've never played Chaos. I had a rad campaign with ARCHAON. I like his extra campaign movement it helps run stacks down.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:02
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For those curious these are the rules CA is using for their tournament. If these rules are indicative of what they have in mind for balance changes then I think we're on a good track.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:26
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Blacktoll posted:I had a rad campaign with ARCHAON. I like his extra campaign movement it helps run stacks down. I have a friend who's entirely new to total war, hes going all out on Chaos with a laser focus. It's going to be interesting watching him go from them to VC when hes finally "done" with that faction since thats what he intends to do.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:28
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Chomp8645 posted:If these rules are indicative of what they have in mind for balance changes then I think we're on a good track. I don't know if the same people decided on the rules as decide on that sort of thing, but if so, this does seem to be an indication that CA has a much better understanding of the game's balance than most people give them credit for.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:32
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madmac posted:I am 100% sure you've never played Chaos. Chaos needs a huge buff to their replenishment. At this time they're far less of a threat than the tribes.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:34
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Chomp8645 posted:For those curious these are the rules CA is using for their tournament. Note that this isn't a CA official tournament, it's ESL, and they've been doing Sunday tournaments on the official channel for almost a month now, with the rules changing every week. I'm sure the CA balance guys are keeping a close eye on results though. It might seem weird, but CA has guest streamers using their channel on weekends pretty much continually. madmac fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 16:41
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I dunno. I feel like I SMASH the tribes. I just have 4 warhounds with the speed buff tech and run down any of the horsemen with javs and then CRUSH any infantry.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:42
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I was basically on an unstopable rampage as the Orcs against the Humies, clearing way with relative ease for a while now. I'm not really sure what happened but the AI decided to change their tactics. And now they're obliterating my armies   ´They basically built armies custom made to stomp my gits all over the place. i'm kind of horrified and happy at the same time.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:57
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