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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. I typically go fight some orcs at this point, building the corruption spreading building in Templehof to soften up my neighbours in the meantime.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:26
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. West. Ostermark is a huge slog and you can't occupy dwarven cities. Most of the human factions have few allies, and keeping the border princes intact gives you a buffer between the waagh and yourself. Just raze that one bloody spearz settlement directly to the south of fort oberstyre, and you're good to go. A trade agreement with zufbar may soon follow.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:26
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. Wait until the Bloody Spears take over that one Dwarf town in Zhufbar, then sack it every single turn thereafter. You can also leave an army in raiding stance for a hilarious -30 public order penalty. Multiple armies can do this in a province in a turn, so three lords = -90 public order. For expanding into empire territory I would say Averland then Wissenland are probably your two best bets. The way that you're meant to conquer without pissing people off is spreading vampiric corruption past 40%, putting 2-3 armies in raid, trigger vamp rebels, which will then raze the city for you. VC really benefit from Conquer Anywhere, if you can conquer Zhufbar that's super nice. Heading north into chaos stuff sucks imo, so I'd go Averland / Wissenland / Border Princes.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:28
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You might want to look into the diplomatic screen before figuring out who to gently caress up. AI factions have random personalities/relationships so some are better to attack than others. For me hitting Ostermark was the right thing to do.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:29
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I found that the bloody spearz were fond of spamming raid groups over your lands into zhufbar, costing precious gold at an early stage. Driving them off completely was the best recourse.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:30
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Fangz posted:You might want to look into the diplomatic screen before figuring out who to gently caress up. AI factions have random personalities/relationships so some are better to attack than others. For me hitting Ostermark was the right thing to do. From what the mod guys posted in the thread, it seems out that some factions are hard coded as spoilers and others have a more normal AI. Some of the AI improvement packages simply remove the spoiler AI behavior and let the factions play normally. So you'll find that when you replay the same faction the conquer progression is fairly similar. It's not as random as it appears, though I'll put a caveat. This applies far more to Empire / VC stuff than to Ork / Dwarf stuff.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:31
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. I had a lord hang out over by I think Gunbad and sack it every single turn. Now I have a huge army of dwarves paying me to love them as I pick apart the Empire slowly.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:31
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Ilustforponydeath posted:I found that the bloody spearz were fond of spamming raid groups over your lands into zhufbar, costing precious gold at an early stage. Driving them off completely was the best recourse. You could get +2000 gold and 1 level for your guys every time you click end turn, or you could 'drive them off at an early stage.' I'm having a hard time making an argument for the second over the first. Does the free money and Lord / agent XP they provide bother you?
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Jun 19, 2016 20:32
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Rakthar posted:You could get +2000 gold and 1 level for your guys every time you click end turn, or you could 'drive them off at an early stage.' I'm having a hard time making an argument for the second over the first. Does the free money and Lord / agent XP they provide bother you? As it turns out not everyone is fond of powergamey bullshit.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:36
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Okay, so that leads into my second question - if I want my neighbors to have rebellions I just raid in their land to spread corruption, then? Does corruption spread from proximity to my settlements?
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Jun 19, 2016 20:38
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Alright, my mod is now live: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=706882940 Thank you all for your feedback!
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Jun 19, 2016 20:38
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. Sprint a second army south raising dead to save time and siege dwarf HQ immediately. Whatever you do you want to stop them from confederating. Decide if you want to ally with Zhufbar and Kharak Kadrin or take your chances with Greenskins. I did the latter and the two of them eventually weakened the Orcs into becoming my vassal. Meanwhile Mannfred wrecks anyone who looks weak / might confederate with the Empire / uncompliant neighbouring dorfs. I would leave Kislev alone as Chaos will free their territory up eventually and when the storm happens you can briefly ally with Empire and Brets before stabbing them in the back (though Estalia might beat Bretonnia for you). I build up Akendorf and later Matorca as my southern buffer - port & farm then pure fortress with grave guard production if something tried to come north. Deified Data posted:Okay, so that leads into my second question - if I want my neighbors to have rebellions I just raid in their land to spread corruption, then? Does corruption spread from proximity to my settlements? Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 20:40
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Chomp8645 posted:As it turns out not everyone is fond of powergamey bullshit. The guy is asking for strategies as VC not roleplay tips though, right? The ability to chain sack cities and pop rebellions at will comes up really really early in the campaign. Especially as VC if you take over an uncorrupted province it will rebel every turn. It takes maybe 20 turns before it dawns on you that with the heavy rear end public order penalties and the fact that there's no difference in province output at -100 happy or +100 happy, and that there's no tax slider, all of which are choices CA made for Warhammer... quote:Okay, so that leads into my second question - if I want my neighbors to have rebellions I just raid in their land to spread corruption, then? Does corruption spread from proximity to my settlements? Things that spread corruption to provinces you don't currently own: Level 2 or higher corruption buildings (they become available at city level 2) Agents Lords Techs Things that spread corruption in provinces you do own: Corruption buildings Agents Lords Techs Events The techs that spread corruption are in the bottom right of the tree.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:42
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Deified Data posted:Okay, so that leads into my second question - if I want my neighbors to have rebellions I just raid in their land to spread corruption, then? Does corruption spread from proximity to my settlements? I wouldn't really raid, it does piss people off. If you could train wright kings you can deploy those instead. Corruption does spread by proximity but it spreads much better if you build the balefire chain of buildings. An uncorrupted province will not rebel every turn, don't be ridiculous.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:42
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Fangz posted:An uncorrupted province will not rebel every turn, don't be ridiculous. A newly conquered, uncorrupted province will generate over -20 happiness a turn. The VH public order penalty is -8, lack of corruption is -13 iirc, taking over a settlement is-8, tax is 4, rebels clear 20, are you telling me that won't trigger a rebellion? Because it does. If you put the stack that just conquered it outside the city on raid you can trivially generate -50 to -60 public order as the VC. I found this hilarious.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:46
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Rakthar posted:You could get +2000 gold and 1 level for your guys every time you click end turn, or you could 'drive them off at an early stage.' I'm having a hard time making an argument for the second over the first. Does the free money and Lord / agent XP they provide bother you? Only so much that managing a dedicated raid group parked way out east sounds "desperately unfun and not at all the way I like to play this game", but ymmv Apparently ymv. You're one of those guys who refuses to play dark souls unless you've spent hours arguing online about "optimal equipment setup", aren't you?
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Jun 19, 2016 20:47
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:Also: Achievements. What is a "militia" unit for the "the Meek shall inherit the earth" achievement? I have a full stack of swords/men/halberdiers/crossbowmen that Franz has been leading since turn 1. I think that achievement would be spearmen (without shields), zombies, and goblins.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:49
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Only so much that managing a dedicated raid group parked way out east sounds "desperately unfun and not at all the way I like to play this game", but ymmv It's the province directly south of Castle Drakenhof that the Bloody Spearz take early in the game I'm talking about. It's the province of Oakenhammer. It's within the movement range of whatever forces you might be keeping at Castle Drakenhof, which is also your recruiting province. It's so hard to move 1 turn south and hit the xp and gold pinata that is sitting right there. Yes indeed it's a dedicated raid group that I am desperately moving over to milk Mt Gunbad. Not just casually strollin down from Drakenhof with my garrison and getting a level.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:49
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Rakthar posted:A newly conquered, uncorrupted province will generate over -20 happiness a turn. The VH public order penalty is -8, lack of corruption is -13 iirc, taking over a settlement is-8, tax is 4, rebels clear 20, are you telling me that won't trigger a rebellion? Because it does. Oh sure, if you immediately remove the army that just took the province, don't build any buildings, have an army that somehow doesn't add corruption, continue to tax the province... It will rebel every turn != you can make it rebel every turn, which seems to be what you are actually talking about. Ilustforponydeath posted:Only so much that managing a dedicated raid group parked way out east sounds "desperately unfun and not at all the way I like to play this game", but ymmv Worth pointing out also it's far more profitable and fun to find new undamaged settlements to sack than repeatedly raid the same one. Paying 2000/turn (which you won't make, because sacking income quickly drops off) won't pay upkeep on that army. Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 20:51
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Rakthar posted:It's so hard to move 1 turn south and hit the xp and gold pinata that is sitting right there. Yes indeed it's a dedicated raid group that I am desperately moving over to milk Mt Gunbad. Not just casually strollin down from Drakenhof with my garrison and getting a level. I know that discerning between "unfun" and "difficult" is a challenge for you because you are an autistic robot but if you at least read people's posts more carefully you should be able to understand what they are saying. He doesn't want to do it because it's lame as hell, not because it's hard. Farming settlements for XP in Total War is a thing for lame people or those who desperately want the "Beat Legendary" achievement (also pretty lame).
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Jun 19, 2016 20:52
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Fangz posted:Oh sure, if you immediately remove the army that just took the province, don't build any buildings, have an army that somehow doesn't add corruption, continue to tax the province... Yes, if you want it to rebel it can. If you move the army out of the province to go conquer something else, it will also rebel. Most of the cities I get are at level 1. Level 1 buildings can't build public order, only growth. So, I can have my army sit there 5-6 turns and babysit the province. Or I can have a 10 stack of skeletons with two agents just chain rip the rebels while taxing it, making money, and getting a level a turn. Have you really played a VC campaign on VH? Like, there's chaos agents that are everywhere giving you -10 unhappy, I'm not making this stuff up.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:52
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. I like to deal with the Dwarves first. You can either Kill them in Zhufbar, or kill enough Orcs so they love you. Once I secure the east I start marching up towards Kislev.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:54
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re: chaos replenishment, it'd be really nice to have a tie-in to chaos corruption like the vamps do. them magically regenerating doesn't make as much sense but maybe if you sack/raze a city that has a chaos rebellion active it automatically rolls them into your army to replenish whatever units you have as though you did a unit merge with them, with anything mismatching either going to similar units (greatweapon <-> shield units of the same type, that sort of thing) or just turning into a % heal averaged across the rest of the army comparable to the orcish "eat captives" option e: it's not really worth sacking the same city repeatedly as anyone except maybe orcs, as after the first sacking the money gained from sacking drops to well below what you're paying that army in upkeep. President Ark fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 20:56
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Rakthar posted:Yes, if you want it to rebel it can. If you move the army out of the province to go conquer something else, it will also rebel. Most of the cities I get are at level 1. Level 1 buildings can't build public order, only growth. So, I can have my army sit there 5-6 turns and babysit the province. Or I can have a 10 stack of skeletons with two agents just chain rip the rebels while taxing it, making money, and getting a level a turn. On the flipside, once you achieve a high percentage of corruption you have a very veeery nice boost to your public order, one of the reasons why i love VC myself actually! President Ark posted:re: chaos replenishment, it'd be really nice to have a tie-in to chaos corruption like the vamps do. Im like 100% certain that Chaos Corruption will work like this for Daemons of Chaos, the higher corruption, the higher replenishment. As to the second part of what you said, yeah i think the same sort of, only im thinking when you raze a town you forcefully gather some people and that replenishes your ranks. I mean it seems to be partially there since your horde grows a bit extra every time you raze so why not a direct replenishment buff like when you capture a city with every other faction? Gejnor fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 20:56
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Chomp8645 posted:I know that discerning between "unfun" and "difficult" is a challenge for you because you are an autistic robot but if you at least read people's posts more carefully you should be able to understand what they are saying. Do you feel this is constructive or relevant to Warhammer in any way? A guy asked for strategy tips as VC. Perhaps if you disagree with the tips I'm offering you can just offer something else or whatever. Just calling me an rear end in a top hat for playing the game differently than you, ok, what does that accomplish?
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Jun 19, 2016 20:56
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Rakthar posted:Yes, if you want it to rebel it can. If you move the army out of the province to go conquer something else, it will also rebel. Most of the cities I get are at level 1. Level 1 buildings can't build public order, only growth. So, I can have my army sit there 5-6 turns and babysit the province. Or I can have a 10 stack of skeletons with two agents just chain rip the rebels while taxing it, making money, and getting a level a turn. If it's a lovely level 1 settlement, you should just raze it and resettle.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:56
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Fangz posted:If it's a lovely level 1 settlement, you should just raze it and resettle. Yes, and when it's a VC city that's level 1 you still can't build the public order building until it's level 2. If the corruption is like 0-20%, it will generate over 20 unhappiness a turn. You either have to have a stack that can run over every 3-4 turns and deal with the rebels, or a stack that's parked to babysit the city until a certain tipping point. I'd say 40% corruption seems to be the sweet spot where provinces stop requiring constant attention, at least on VH. Always up for contradictory screenshots or something. Please conquer a low corruption province anywhere on VH and move the army out of the city after 3-4 turns. Turn the tax off, what's your unhappiness per turn? For me I'm typically at like 20-30 happy with a change of -20 to -30, meaning it will require attention within 6 turns. Even if I upgrade the city to level 2 and build a happiness building, once it hits -100, I will have 'rebel problems' on a regular basis. I've found that I go through at least one if not two cycles of the above for a newly conquered province. If you choose to go the chain pop rebels route you can get 10 or so off a settlement as the corruption works its way up.
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Jun 19, 2016 21:01
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Rakthar posted:Yes, and when it's a VC city that's level 1 you still can't build the public order building until it's level 2. If the corruption is like 0-20%, it will generate over 20 unhappiness a turn. You either have to have a stack that can run over every 3-4 turns and deal with the rebels, or a stack that's parked to babysit the city until a certain tipping point. have a couple loose necromancers and vampires generating corruption ahead of your army before you conquer them and research some of the economy/corruption tech, especially the "corruption is contagious from your provinces" tech, maybe even build some level 2-3 banefire (?) braziers in your established cities as they corrupt adjacent provinces if it's really that huge of a problem just raze the city and don't even bother resettling it immediately, give it a bit to be corrupted and then have a new army settle it when it's convenient
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Jun 19, 2016 21:03
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President Ark posted:have a couple loose necromancers and vampires generating corruption ahead of your army before you conquer them and research some of the economy/corruption tech, especially the "corruption is contagious from your provinces" tech, maybe even build some level 2-3 banefire (?) braziers in your established cities as they corrupt adjacent provinces How do people read this as "I'm having a problem spreading corruption." Do you really feel that was what I was saying in any way shape or form, asking for how to raise corruption on provinces I'm conquering? The statement I was making was "Provinces with low corruption will rebel quite often, which you can either use to your advantage or not as your Compass of Justice indicates."
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Jun 19, 2016 21:05
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Rakthar posted:How do people read this as "I'm having a problem spreading corruption." what is your problem then, because if you're not having a problem spreading corruption why are you having so many problems with unhappiness from <50% corruption in places you're taking
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Jun 19, 2016 21:06
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Rakthar posted:Just calling me an rear end in a top hat for playing the game differently than you, ok, what does that accomplish? I don't know if you are trying to bait people into probations or something but I want to serve a reminder that this is the guy who constantly bitches about everything imaginable and berates people for having the audacity to say that maybe the AI uses cavalry ok. Don't act like you're suddenly an innocent, helpful poster.
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Jun 19, 2016 21:07
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Boss of this thread needs to knock heads together looks like
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Jun 19, 2016 21:08
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Dandywalken posted:Boss of this thread needs to knock heads together looks like need to raid some other threads before infighting gets us, maybe get a waaaagh going 
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Jun 19, 2016 21:09
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Chomp8645 posted:I don't know if you are trying to bait people into probations or something but I want to serve a reminder that this is the guy who constantly bitches about everything imaginable and berates people for having the audacity to say that maybe the AI uses cavalry ok. Don't act like you're suddenly an innocent, helpful poster. Hey is there some way that whatever personal beef you have with me can stay out of the thread? I'd like to post my thoughts on warhammer in response to topics of conversation. If people don't like how I play or whatever, just put me on loving ignore. This kind of personal callout poo poo, and implying I'm trying to bait people into probations, is ridiculous.
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Jun 19, 2016 21:13
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Rakthar posted:Hey is there some way that whatever personal beef you have with me can stay out of the thread? I'd like to post my thoughts on warhammer in response to topics of conversation. if you really just want to talk about the game you might want to take a slightly less confrontational tone, friend
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Jun 19, 2016 21:15
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Dandywalken posted:Boss of this thread needs to knock heads together looks like It's ok I've quelled my animosity now and I'm back to proper Orky action in game.
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Jun 19, 2016 21:18
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President Ark posted:if you really just want to talk about the game you might want to take a slightly less confrontational tone, friend  THIS IS THE TONE POLICE! COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP!
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Jun 19, 2016 21:36
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The Intolerable Shitposter Grudge Under the watchful eyes of lowtax did the goons of something awful befoul the Total War:Warhammer games discussion thread. As they raved about faulty AI and the excesses of CA, topics were derailed into oblivion, leaving naught but a burning husk Mission: Gas the thread and ban all offending accounts
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Jun 19, 2016 21:44
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unwantedplatypus posted:The Intolerable Shitposter Grudge 
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Jun 19, 2016 21:58
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 the spiky gits are getting a meltdown 
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