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Soulex posted:How in the gently caress can you ban driving? You can't unless deployed but some lawyers suck. I've been in more than a few meetings where a senior leader tries to ban some random poo poo and the trial counsel has to throw a fit cause it's totally illegal. I sometimes have to tell NCOs that having a bad feeling about a soldier isn't grounds for searching all of their belongings and their person and also, no, I can't banish their families from the state.
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Jun 20, 2016 00:55
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Good loving goddam, that's some of the most retarded poo poo I've ever read, even by Army retarded standards.
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Jun 20, 2016 03:34
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mlmp08 posted:You can't unless deployed but some lawyers suck. I swear the army needs to mandate a legal class to O3s and 1SGs before they can take over a company because this poo poo is asinine beyond belief. Yet post it to facebook and all the mouthbreathers come out of the woodwork to say "it's duh armee u dont have rights u do what they say and when they say to du it suk it up!!!"
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Jun 20, 2016 07:01
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Justin Tyme posted:I swear the army needs to mandate a legal class to O3s and 1SGs before they can take over a company because this poo poo is asinine beyond belief. Yet post it to facebook and all the mouthbreathers come out of the woodwork to say "it's duh armee u dont have rights u do what they say and when they say to du it suk it up!!!" There isn't an army-wide one, but every post I've been on has had a mandatory CDR/1SG course that covers this stuff. And CCC covers it. The BN and BDE CDR pre-command courses cover this. Plus, my current unit requires that E-7s and up attend a "how not to violate everyone's rights and/or land yourself in trouble" briefing, done by a lawyer in person rather than a powerpoint jockey leafing through the slides. I still see officers with a decidedly authoritarian bent who seem to think that UCMJ just requires 51% of the evidence for a finding of guilty or that blanket punishments for an offense, regardless of circumstances are OK, and that obviously anyone choosing to exercise their right not to talk or write a statement is automatically guilty. A good trial counsel will keep those officers in check, because in addition to not wanting to look like an idiot if the Soldier goes to IG or takes an offense to court martial, the TC actually gives a gently caress about the integrity of the law and soldiers' rights. A bad TC might not care or will just be too weak in the spine to stand up to the commanders and let them know when they're going too far. I sat in on a fatality review board years ago where a sober soldier had died smashing his car into an underpass at about triple the speed limit. Soldier had no misconduct as a soldier until his death, but had a couple speeding tickets from before he joined the army that wouldn't even warrant popping up when getting his clearance. The post JAG rep and MP rep and off-post police reps got badgered nonstop as to why they didn't check the driving record of every single new recruit and why commanders couldn't just take the keys from any soldier with an "unsafe driving record" even if that record was that they'd sped on a couple of occasions years before they joined the Army, when they were still minors. Then the post CSM and BDE CDR blew up the squad leader who admitted he had given a squad safety brief, but had not pulled each soldier aside for a 1 on 1 "under the shade tree" counseling to address their specific risk factors. By the end, the battery command team and NCOs as well as the various legal authorities were being openly hostile with the panel of O-6s and the CG.
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Jun 20, 2016 13:15
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I know there is such a class on JBLM because when I was bringing up some issues concerning my medboard and my my command to the soldiers legal help they said that there is a class that covers these things and my Commander probably was on the list to take it. One of the things that they cover is that you cannot, cannot chapter a soldier for height and weight. You can go through the motions and everything like that so if they come back as fit for duty the chapter paperwork will start but even if you send it up to "let the CG decide." There is no way the CH will choose that over a medboard due to legal reasons. It's simple enough, yet I had the hardest time with that and my profile with my command to the point where my provider just put "PT own pace and distance." On my profile to fend off bullshit like "says you can do sit ups for PT Test but doesn't say you can't specifically on your profile," etc. the reason I can't is because of someone holding my legs etc. You would think that this poo poo would be easy enough to know. Hey this guy is getting medboarded for a problem he had been getting seen for 3 years already. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. No, pain is invisible and people will think you are faking unless you are deformed or bleeding. The Army is a giant Stanford Experiment that never ends. Should get my orders this week or the next to ETS. Won't get my paternity leave back which I have been fighting since September, but gently caress it, I got 57.5 days at the end of the month anyways.
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Jun 20, 2016 15:10
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this page is really making me miss the army
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Jun 20, 2016 17:57
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:this page is really making me hate the army drat autocorrect.
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Jun 20, 2016 19:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFxjkT8yrXgquote:Unknown LT pulls reserve on night jump
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Jun 21, 2016 02:51
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The one guy sounds like Walter Jr. from Breaking Bad.
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Jun 21, 2016 04:53
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Got my separation orders! Looks like I'll be all said and done by 4th of July weekend!
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Jun 21, 2016 18:27
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Wonder if he panicked or grabbed the reserve instead of the HSPR
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Jun 21, 2016 18:41
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Soulex posted:Got my separation orders! Knock on wood.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:55
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Soulex posted:Got my separation orders!
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Jun 21, 2016 18:59
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Soulex posted:Got my separation orders! *bursts into room* You're getting stop lossed
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Jun 21, 2016 19:14
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Teflon Don posted:*bursts into room* You're getting stop lossed Had a CSM keep telling a unit they were stop lossed. They weren't. One of the soldiers should have ETSd while on the ship taking equipment to the Middle East. His pay was all hosed when he got in theater a couple weeks later. He shrugged it off and reenlisted. lol.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:09
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Teflon Don posted:*bursts into room* You're getting stop lossed That wouldn't be funny if it was me you were joking about
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Jun 21, 2016 21:15
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not caring here posted:That wouldn't be funny if it was me you were joking about nice user name post combo
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Jun 21, 2016 21:16
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Lol IDK why anyone would take some CSM at his word that they were stoplossed. It shows on you ERB as a "surprise your ETS date is different" source, I've been stoplossed CHICKEN SHOES fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 21:17
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I'm pretty sure the MPs would have to come get me if I were stop lossed.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:20
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:Lol IDK my anyone would take some CSM at his word that they were stoplossed. It shows on you ERB as a "surprise your ETS date is different" He said it as fact for months. S1 would point out that it wasn't true and he'd just say no one is going anywhere because he knows it's going to happen 100% any day now, so just state it as fact. This was well after big army had announced stop losses would become rare for very special missions or skill sets. I guess it was effective. A ton of people deployed who were supposed to get out pretty soon then got enticed by tax free reenlistment bonuses.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:22
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mlmp08 posted:He said it as fact for months. S1 would point out that it wasn't true and he'd just say no one is going anywhere because he knows it's going to happen 100% any day now, so just state it as fact. This was well after big army had announced stop losses would become rare for very special missions or skill sets. well I guess thats one way to get high retention numbers in your BN
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Jun 21, 2016 21:32
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Soulex posted:nice user name post combo Then it's your turn to laugh about it happening to someone else after July 4. And so the circle of life continues.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:55
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Aranan posted:I'm pretty sure the MPs would have to come get me if I were stop lossed. I'd let you go.  I've let lot's of joes go in the past.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:59
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21Js (construction equipment engineers) were stoplossed for a really long time in early OIF. Had a dude in my unit that was supposed to get out in 2004 and was still in the Army with us until mid-2006. Right after demob they cut him loose at least. He probably got hella paid after they retroactively paid for stoploss.
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Jun 21, 2016 22:55
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A dude in my unit was stoplossed 5 days before his ets He was a cool dude so im kinda happy he came to iraq with us anyways, and he got his e-5 for it at least and hella paid.
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Jun 21, 2016 23:40
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mlmp08 posted:He said it as fact for months. S1 would point out that it wasn't true and he'd just say no one is going anywhere because he knows it's going to happen 100% any day now, so just state it as fact. This was well after big army had announced stop losses would become rare for very special missions or skill sets. One could make a case that if someone were to die past their official ETS date that CSM could be sued for wrongful death in civilian world rules, but Army. Did anything end up happening to him because of it because that seems like the sort of thing you'd get in big trouble for. There was an instructor as RASP who got his rear end reamed because apparently he had been withholding orders/paperwork for people in the school who had dropped the course and were waiting on orders because he wanted to keep them there as some sort of punishment/to have more manpower to do bullshit details in Regiment. He finally got found out when units began calling 3rd Batt asking where the gently caress these people were who were supposed to report weeks ago. Not sure what happened to him but he had a reputation for being legitimately unstable and rumor had it he won a shitload of money in a lawsuit, like enough to get a change of lifestyle discharge, but who knows.
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Jun 22, 2016 04:01
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Not much happened to him AFAIK, other than the finance/HRC lanes being annoyed that now they had to retroactively stop-loss someone they never should have stoplossed to make the soldier's pay right. If that soldier had made a huge deal out of it, it might have hurt the CSM's career, but I guess his planned civilian employment fell through for reasons not related to his "stoploss" and his available bonus increased in the first couple months of deployment, so the soldier overall was glad it happened, even though he realized it was all very stupid. The CSM went on to become CSM of increasingly large organizations. He had a reputation for saying some outrageous things, which a couple times resulted in the colonel yanking him out from in front of formation when he went too far, but also for being well liked and very effective when it came to networking with other orgs or civilian agencies to get resources or perks for those in his unit. The biggest gripe with him from NCOs was that if he decided on day 1, he didn't like you, there was basically zero chance you were going to change his mind over time. With officers, it was that he fundamentally didn't understand how our weapon systems worked and would direct NCOs to build field sites that made it impossible to do gunnery, so it was a cat and mouse game of him showing up and suddenly there'd be a dug-in bunker in the way of gunnery and then the officers determining whether it was more work for the soldiers to fill the bunker in when he left or just move our systems so we could still train.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:11
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Justin Tyme posted:One could make a case that if someone were to die past their official ETS date that CSM could be sued for wrongful death in civilian world rules, but Army. the most barracks of lawyers
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Jun 22, 2016 13:50
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They'd for sure deny benefits since he wasn't technically Army
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Jun 22, 2016 14:04
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go3 posted:They'd for sure deny benefits since he wasn't technically Army Right? Yeah, withholding orders (which I'm not sure how you can do this, I've always gotten my orders via email) is a dick move and surely breaking a regulation or something. I am waiting to go sign in for this class I have to do to get my DD214 and clearing papers. I'm loving excited!
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Jun 22, 2016 14:58
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at the date posted:the most barracks of lawyers "I talked to legal and they said you were violating my rights and also article 138" "Who at legal said that?" "GI Rights Hotline" 
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Jun 22, 2016 16:13
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When I was IRR recalled, the JAG guy for the unit was cool as gently caress and felt bad for the IRR people so he wrote a letter to someone arguing that an IRR recall was technically a stoploss situation. We all got stoploss pay for about 6 months before someone higher up out-lawyered him and shut it down.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:42
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RichieHimself posted:When I was IRR recalled, the JAG guy for the unit was cool as gently caress and felt bad for the IRR people so he wrote a letter to someone arguing that an IRR recall was technically a stoploss situation. We all got stoploss pay for about 6 months before someone higher up out-lawyered him and shut it down. good dude
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Jun 22, 2016 19:02
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Man, gently caress this lovely rear end day. Typical Green Weenie bullshit: Show up early to the brief for my DD214. Was told to come back when my DA31 had been signed (it had not because it was submitted yesterday and I have less than a week left, orders arrived on Tuesday). Stop by transportation, told to come back when I have a time when I'm actually leaving since I didn't know exactly when I'd be moving. Come back to the office, inquire about my ETS award, was told that my previous NCOIC had said to not give me one for whatever reason despite me writing it and sending it up. I'm thinking about IG for that one, my 1SG actually recommended it. Case in point the last two people to leave from our unit got one, and I have not. Get my DA31 signed by command and all squared away Go down to S1, and try to get a control number. After explaining that my final out day is July 3rd (technically last duty say so 30 June) this loving specialist tells me to calm down. I wasn't being loud, just insistent that I needed this to happen so I can get my goddamn clearing packet. I blew the gently caress up. I have only truly yelled at lower enlisted like 2 times. This made 3. I asked him who the gently caress he thought he was talking to, told him to go to parade rest and the dude kept blabbing 'I know exactly who I'm talking to.' No you don't dude, I ain't ever seen you before in my goddamn life. Then his NCOIC, SFC, comes out and takes me outside. He asks me what's going on I explain it to him. He naturally tells me not to yell at his soldiers, and I told him why. He said either or, come get him. I told him if I knew he was there I would have. Now I'm waiting for some loving guy I've never heard of to sign this mother fucker so I can bring it BACK to S1 and get a goddamn control number so I can get my loving clearing paperwork. gently caress 1 more loving week... I'm going to have to clear in like 2 days including CIF because they apparently changed their policy to make it so that you have to have your orders/DD214 to be able to out process them. I'm losing what little loving patience I have left. I'm behind in my school work because this, selling the house and everything is making it so I have 0 time to dedicate to it. Even if I did I'd be so goddamn stressed out that I couldn't concentrate. I am glad I'm getting out now. To be treated like this is loving insane. Especially after 9 loving years. Go ahead and laugh it up boys. I will too when this is all said and done. My last duty is to go to IG and see if I can't gently caress my old NCOIC over a bit because he hosed me so hard here. As long as it doesn't keep me in.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:33
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Soulex posted:Right? Well you gotta consider most of the people in this course were fresh out of basic so they were easy to gently caress with since nobody knew how to use AKO or how orders even came down.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:40
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Soulex posted:Man, gently caress this lovely rear end day.  I. Um. Was going to bitch about my sump pump failing and flooding my crawlspace.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:42
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Soulex it's okay man, everyone is doing it on purpose because they're doing you a favor by making your last memories of the army so incredibly lovely that you won't ever think about getting back in.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:44
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Yeah my clearing process was basically that, a bunch of loving retards delaying my poo poo and loving little shithead E-1 to E-4 personnel fuckers acting like they weren't loving outranked by me. gently caress paperwork desk jockeys.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:47
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I had some fat old dudes at one of the clearing sections basically shut their shutters down on me I was so pissed and it was their time to close, gently caress you guy
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Jun 22, 2016 21:49
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Mike-o posted:Yeah my clearing process was basically that, a bunch of loving retards delaying my poo poo and loving little shithead E-1 to E-4 personnel fuckers acting like they weren't loving outranked by me. gently caress paperwork desk jockeys. It probably would have gotten a lot worse if his NCO didn't come around. I was yelling at him in front of their OIC, a CW3 I worked with, and he was chill about the whole thing.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:55
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