CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

they only completely masterminded and guided the two idiots by the hand into doing something they were wholly incompetent of doing themselves, so they did nothing wrong I guess

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:34

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:26

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

JawKnee posted:

they only completely masterminded and guided the two idiots by the hand into doing something they were wholly incompetent of doing themselves, so they did nothing wrong I guess

You can only commit crimes as a civilian i thought you were aware of this

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:34

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

THC posted:

Reminder that leftist thread superstar Helsing cheered the capture of these diabolical terrorist masterminds. Lol

It's an awkward position for sure - they had proven themselves very willing to pull of a terrorist attack, even if they lacked the means to do so and were unlikely to get it on their own. The fact that they went through with it when given the means speaks against them. I would like to assume that (for example) most Catholics in Canada, were they approached by an undercover RCMP officer promising them a foolproof way to bomb an abortion clinic, would probably tell the officer to gently caress off.

I think the key question here is whether the RCMP ever provided more than just the means for the attack. They very well may have. If the RCMP crossed the line and actually moved into a position where they were encouraging the attack to take place, then in my view they have gone too far and should be sanctioned. If they really did cross that line, then the Keystone Mujahideens should be released because the proper administration of justice is worth more to me than a couple of convictions.

I'm not sure how the RCMP found out about these clowns, but that would colour my opinion of this debacle.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:39

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

They probably came up with the "innovative" "investigation" months beforehand and then went looking for a suitable person to "investigate"

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:44

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:44

JohnnyCanuck: May 28, 2004; Strong And/Or Free

Did the RCMP also provide them drugs? I seem to remember that part...

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:47

Booourns: Jan 20, 2004; Please send a report when you see me complain about other posters and threads outside of QCS

~thanks!

THC posted:

She suggested that given the extent of police assistance to the poor, recovering addicts � small amounts of money, groceries, access to methadone, transportation, hotel rooms, putative explosives � �a blind person� could have carried out the murderous plan.

�(Police have) taken them there, they�ve given them the resources, they�ve shown them what to do, they�ve told them where to put it, they�ve made the bomb for them, and then they�ve said, �OK, it�s right there, take a few steps, drop it,�� Bruce said.

�Now, what you are saying is that�s not entrapment.�

I'm wondering what they mean by "access to methadone" were they actually giving them the drugs?

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:51

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

David Corbett posted:

I think the key question here is whether the RCMP ever provided more than just the means for the attack. They very well may have. If the RCMP crossed the line and actually moved into a position where they were encouraging the attack to take place, then in my view they have gone too far and should be sanctioned. If they really did cross that line, then the Keystone Mujahideens should be released because the proper administration of justice is worth more to me than a couple of convictions.

I'm not sure how the RCMP found out about these clowns, but that would colour my opinion of this debacle.

CSIS may have incited B.C. couple to commit terrorist act: lawyer posted:

�If there [redacted] was a human source, then that raises serious issues about the potential role of CSIS in inciting the applicants to commit terrorist acts,� Mr. Nuttall�s lawyer Marilyn Sandford said in the transcript.

If the possible source was acting as an agent for either the RCMP or CSIS while at the same time encouraging Mr. Nuttall and Ms. Korody to commit terrorist acts, �then we say that�s potentially an abuse of process or potentially entrapment,� she added.

Ms. Sandford told the court that her client claimed the alleged CSIS operative �strongly encouraged him on many occasions to engage in violent terrorist acts and played a significant role in [his] radicalization.�

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:53

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

JohnnyCanuck posted:

Did the RCMP also provide them drugs? I seem to remember that part...

The RCMP also decided that they needed to get them out of their apartment after it became clear that they were more interested in getting high and playing video games than carrying out the plot they were presented.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 19:55

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

The RCMP spends more time thinking about how to harm Canada than the Islamists do.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:00

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-scheer-a-strong-britain-is-an-independent-britain

Our former speaker is a big moron, who knew????

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:05

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

THC posted:

Reminder that leftist thread superstar Helsing cheered the capture of these diabolical terrorist masterminds. Lol

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:07

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

THC posted:

The RCMP spends more time thinking about how to harm Canada than the Islamists do.

This could well be correct. It's amazing to see how far their reputation has been dragged through the mud. Every time we think that they have reached their nadir, they find a new way to plumb a yet deeper sub-basement of disgrace.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

hmm quite right

maybe scheer can help out the pequistes for the next referendum

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:38

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

oh he's from saskatchewan no wonder he's so loving dumb

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:39

Meat Recital: Mar 26, 2009; by zen death robot

JohnnyCanuck posted:

Did the RCMP also provide them drugs? I seem to remember that part...

The best part of the whole thing was when the RCMP asked Nutall and Korody to find a target and come up with a plan to attack it, the pair decided to smoke weed for three weeks before working on the plan at the last minute, deciding to attack a rail line that had been out of commission for several years, before the RCMP told them, hey, why not attack the legislature?

# ? Jun 20, 2016 20:52

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

I remember the news breaking in this thread that there were suspicious potentially explosive devices on the grounds of the BC Legislature and everyone was freaked out.

Here we are a few years later and it turns out that basically the RCMP cooked the whole thing up from start to finish.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 22:00

HackensackBackpack: Aug 20, 2007; Who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for your money?

vyelkin posted:

I remember the news breaking in this thread that there were suspicious potentially explosive devices on the grounds of the BC Legislature and everyone was freaked out.

Here we are a few years later and it turns out that basically the RCMP cooked the whole thing up from start to finish.

Without knowing the background, it is admittedly frightening, which I think was part of the aim. This whole thing happened before the October shooting in Ottawa, if I remember right, but there had already been a fair bit of push to expand anti-terrorist powers.

This entire clusterfuck just seems like it was more of a marketing campaign for a Stronger. Stabler. RCMP. than it was an investigation to stop actual terrorists. This isn't the Toronto 18. I agree with David Corbett's assessment that the fact they seemed willing to go through with it speaks against their moral character, but Nuttall and Korody appear to have been so god damned stupid that there's no way they'd ever actually follow through.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:00

ghosthorse: Dec 15, 2011; ...you forget so easily...

I genuinely don't know why we keep the RCMP around. Was there really a time they weren't a huge national embarrassment? Maybe pre-1950 and the gay machine poo poo, because that's the oldest thing that sticks out in my mind, but that's only like 30 years of not being terrible. They've been constantly loving up and the government's fine with that because of their goofy hats I guess.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:03

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

We keep them around because no one else can be convinced to keep rurals from beating their wives and stabbing each other in the middle of nowhere. Their role should, however, be restricted entirely to community policing at this point, and only for communities who could not reasonably afford their own police force.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:12

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

I don't know why you would let a few bad apples ruin your perception of an entire group, there are literally hundreds of great RCMP officers.

E. ^ We need RCMP to investigate OPP fraud.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:18

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The good RCMP officers want to get rid of the bad ones in the worst way, but also don't want to move into management positions where they could actually make such a difference.

My RCMP buddy says he'd fire the officers in his detachment who can't be bothered to follow recommended procedures and back their cruisers in. The officers that aren't poo poo, in any police organization, would be far less likely to tolerate any sort of bullshit, but they are also the ones least likely to seek the sort of power that would let them do anything.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:23

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Ikantski posted:

I don't know why you would let a few bad apples ruin your perception of an entire group, there are literally hundreds of great RCMP officers.

E. ^ We need RCMP to investigate OPP fraud.

That's like saying there were literally hundreds of decent SS officers

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:27

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Ikantski posted:

E. ^ We need RCMP to investigate OPP fraud.

Speaking of... The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice (guess who), took donations from two of the people being investigated in that probe after their names were announced as linked to the investigation.

Ain't that some poo poo?

It's okay though, he's instructed the donations be returned.

# ? Jun 20, 2016 23:41

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

https://twitter.com/rasselin66/status/745041009944387584

Interesting that Brad Wall's gov't signed on to this

# ? Jun 21, 2016 00:53

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Ikantski posted:

I don't know why you would let a few bad apples ruin your perception of an entire group, there are literally hundreds of great RCMP officers.

E. ^ We need RCMP to investigate OPP fraud.

"A few bad apples..." then what? Finish the phrase for me and then think about what you said

# ? Jun 21, 2016 00:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Also you gotta make allowances for PTSD

# ? Jun 21, 2016 01:16

the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

the VPD are awful in everyway so please don'tt disband the rcmp

# ? Jun 21, 2016 01:24

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

If you think about it, one of the most traumatic tasks of an RCMP officer is to abandon a native Indian 50km out of town in -30c weather

We need to support our good old Canadian RCMP boots

# ? Jun 21, 2016 01:32

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

brucio posted:

https://twitter.com/rasselin66/status/745041009944387584

Interesting that Brad Wall's gov't signed on to this

Man we just don't take pride in our official signed declarations anymore.

Someone banged that out in Word in 10 minutes.

Put some work into that poo poo jeez, at least make it a little cool looking.

# ? Jun 21, 2016 01:50

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

the talent deficit posted:

the VPD are awful in everyway so please don'tt disband the rcmp

Honestly every encounter I've had with them has always been pretty pleasant and professional, even when I was maybe not being such a model citizen at the time.

RCMP on the other hand...

# ? Jun 21, 2016 01:53

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

the talent deficit posted:

the VPD are awful in everyway so please don'tt disband the rcmp

VPD is significantly more competent, influential, and positive than the RCMP. gently caress the mounties.

# ? Jun 21, 2016 02:12

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

I grew up in an RCMP-policed town and I'd take them every day and twice on Sundays compared to the Calgary Police Service.

# ? Jun 21, 2016 02:14

Chicken: Apr 23, 2014

namaste faggots posted:

If you think about it, one of the most traumatic tasks of an RCMP officer is to abandon a native Indian 50km out of town in -30c weather

We need to support our good old Canadian RCMP boots

I'm pretty sure that was the Saskatoon Police. And maybe the Winnipeg Police. Probably the Prince Albert Police. Definitely not the RCMP.

# ? Jun 21, 2016 02:24

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Jun 21, 2016 02:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/out-of-control-canadian-military-police-terrorized-afghan-prisoners-in-kandahar-documents-indicate

quote:

Out-of-control Canadian military police terrorized Afghan prisoners in Kandahar, documents indicate

OTTAWA � Canadian military police accused of terrorizing Afghan prisoners in their cells at Kandahar airfield operated without oversight and lacked guidance, according to newly released Defence Department documents obtained by Postmedia News.

The documents shed new light on allegations made last year by some military police officers who say Afghan detainees were abused in their cells in Kandahar during surprise raids by guards in 2010 and 2011.

The documents acknowledge the raids happened and suggest the situation was out of control.

Paul Champ, a human rights lawyer previously involved in the Afghan detainee issue, says the documents show the Canadian military is acknowledging something went seriously wrong in the Kandahar detention centre.

�I�m surprised the military didn�t take their investigation further and levy at least charges of misconduct,� said Champ, an Ottawa lawyer. �Even if the actions didn�t meet some level of criminal threshold, although I would argue they do, it certainly would breach a code of conduct if these police officers weren�t properly trained or provided with oversight.�

Champ said there was no reason for military police to go into the cells on what they claimed was a training mission. �It seems clear the purpose was to instil fear, to cause terror in these prisoners,� Champ said. �In my view that is a breach of humanitarian law.�
The issue of how Canadian military personnel treated Afghan detainees recently re-emerged on the political scene. Last week the Liberals rejected a request for a public inquiry even though they supported such an investigation while in opposition.

Canadian military police officers have also recently come forward to raise concerns that many Afghans taken prisoner by Canadian troops were innocent farmers or workers and not members of the Taliban or al-Qaida.

Last year, La Presse newspaper reported that Canadian military police conducted the surprise raids on detainees in their cells, roughing up prisoners in the process. The aim was to create a climate of high tension, which in turn could prompt detainees to provide information.

But the tactics terrorized the prisoners so much that some urinated or defecated during the raids, La Press reported.

The Conservative government responded to the article by announcing that the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service had looked into the matter but concluded no charges should be laid against their fellow police officers.

But behind the scenes, the La Presse article sent staff at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa scrambling, according to documents obtained by the Citizen under the Access to Information law.

Military police debated whether they should provide a copy of the 200-page investigation about the cell raids to the Conservative government. Information prepared for the Conservatives contained further details about how military police conducted themselves during such operations, which were supposed to provide training for officers.

�The investigation revealed that participants in the dynamic entry training lacked guidance and oversight required to carry out the work, and some had expressed frustration with the situation,� the Defence documents noted.

But military police later recommended that information be removed from the material sent to the Conservatives and in the Commons, James Bezan, parliamentary secretary of the Minister of Defence, instead recited the lines that the alleged actions were investigated and did not warrant any charges.

In November 2015, the Military Police Complaints Commission or MPCC launched an investigation into the incident. That decision was made after a complaint from an anonymous military police officer in which it was alleged that police conducted the exercises to terrorize detainees and in one instance entered the cells and manhandled prisoners. The officer also complained about the investigation into the incident and the fact that no charges were laid or court martial convened.

The MPCC interviewed a number of individuals aware of the raids and confirmed that several detainees were so scared they defecated and urinated on the spot during one such foray into the cells.

A day after launching its investigation, the complaints commission requested the documents relating to the police probe. But the Canadian Forces delayed release of that material for seven months.

It was finally received on June 10, MPCC spokesman Michael Tansey confirmed Monday. �The MPCC has just received the documents and other material received and is reviewing them to determine if additional materials are required,� he said.

Military police spokeswoman Capt. Joanna Labonte said in an email Monday that four training exercises were conducted between December 2010 and January 2011 in Kandahar. �Exercises were conducted with the goal of maintaining military police preparedness to quickly and safely remove disruptive detainees from their detention location in order to ensure their own safety and that of other detainees,� she stated.

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan has said Canadian military police and soldiers have a significant amount of training and the Canadian Forces as a whole abides by international law.

But Champ said he is worried the Canadian Forces will stonewall any attempts to get to the bottom of what actually happened in the Kandahar jail cells.

The MPCC has not said when it expects to finish its examination into the complaint about alleged abuse of the detainees.

ma-horus, you better defend this with valour otherwise i'm revoking your col. romeo dallaire golden diapers award

# ? Jun 21, 2016 03:34

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

Haha all of those police services are eminently more qualified than the TPS

Toronto po-po are some mean, trigger happy fucks.

Also i ain't defending poo poo on that. gently caress the meatheads.

# ? Jun 21, 2016 03:34

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

maybe they all had PTSD though

we need to give them our support

# ? Jun 21, 2016 03:40

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Jun 21, 2016 03:48

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 22:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...b3-812dd4a0a9c5

quote:

Let�s see if we have this straight.

Foreign Affairs Minister St�phane Dion may or may not have personally approved the shipment of Canadian-made military goods to Thailand, a country controlled by an oppressive, anti-democratic military dictatorship that puts its critics in detention camps where they undergo �attitude adjustment.�

At the same time, Mr. Dion may or may not have blocked the same sale, since he will not divulge his decision on the matter. We do not know what the military goods are, and we don�t know who made them. We don�t know the value of the goods, either.

We know nothing, except that the export permit for this mystery equipment was contentious enough that it needed to be brought to the Minister�s attention. Since then, stonewalling.

The Minister�s office says Mr. Dion cannot reveal his decision one way or the other, or any other information, because doing so could harm the commercial interests of the company or companies that may or may not be shipping military equipment to a dictatorship.

There is no way of knowing whether that is true or not. There are reasons to be skeptical, however.

For one thing, it�s a strange claim to make and then to add, as Mr. Dion�s office has, that �We�re actively working towards introducing greater transparency � going forward.� If transparency harms commercial interests now, how could it not in the future?

Also, Mr. Dion was stung badly in April when he signed off on the export permits to sell armoured military vehicles to Saudi Arabia. The controversy hurt him. He felt he was doing the right thing by putting the final touch on a lucrative weapons sale negotiated by the previous government, a deal worth $15-billion and which protected 3,000 jobs in Ontario. Instead, he was overwhelmed by criticism that he should have cancelled the sale of deadly arms to a nation that has an abysmal human-rights record.

Once bitten, twice shy. Mr. Dion knows he is in a no-win situation. If he admits to permitting this new sale to Thailand, he will once again be lashed with criticism for allowing Canadian military equipment to be delivered to an oppressive regime � equipment that might be used for �attitude adjustment� purposes, for all we know. Better to say as little as possible, then, and leave Canadians in the dark.

lmao where is bunnyofdoom

# ? Jun 21, 2016 03:51

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