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cheesetriangles posted:What if Lewis spent more time studying and working in the simulator? Many fewer posts ITT
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Jun 21, 2016 14:40
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Is the only reason for the radio ban seriously so the teams don't tell the drivers how to drive (asking honestly since I missed the off-season rules change discussion)? Seems kind of arbitrary considering the teams can still control pit strategy, which directly impacts where the cars wind up in relation to each other during the course of the race. It would be pretty cool if the drivers had to change their own tires though. All about the Excitement of Racing, right?
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Jun 21, 2016 14:56
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I just like to point out that MotoGP, a.k.a. real racing, has no radios. It's every man for himself once they get out there except for the pit boards.
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Jun 21, 2016 14:59
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nsaP posted:I just like to point out that MotoGP, a.k.a. real racing, has no radios. It's every man for himself once they get out there except for the pit boards. Are they doing anything other than brake bias adjustments though?
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Jun 21, 2016 15:01
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Dangerllama posted:Is the only reason for the radio ban seriously so the teams don't tell the drivers how to drive (asking honestly since I missed the off-season rules change discussion)? the only REAL reason for the radio ban is because the FIA does not have the ability (or the balls) to implement any of the changes fans demand that might actually improve the racing. so instead they took the one requested change they could actually make and went way over the top enforcing it, even though its providing no value.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:09
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freeranger posted:Are Kimi or Ferrari complaining about the radio issues? They suffered as well, but its just Lewis Lewis Lewis! gently caress Lewis. The radio ban is still stupid. This has nothing to do with Lewis. The radio ban is stupid. Let me say it again. The radio ban is stupid and adds nothing to the sport.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:10
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Well they've also listened to THE FANS and provided lots of overtaking. The only problem is they've done it by designing poo poo tracks with huge straights and hairpins and DRS zones. So really we're all idiots and the architects of our own demise.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:25
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runoverbobby posted:Well they've also listened to THE FANS and provided lots of overtaking. The only problem is they've done it by designing poo poo tracks with huge straights and hairpins and DRS zones. exactly, because they are not competent or powerful enough to design foolproof aero regulations that don't produce turbulent air. it's easier for them to build new tracks from scratch to encourage overtaking. think about how insane that is.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:57
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wicka posted:exactly, because they are not competent or powerful enough to design foolproof aero regulations that don't produce turbulent air. it's easier for them to build new tracks from scratch to encourage overtaking. think about how insane that is. F1 so 
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Jun 21, 2016 16:03
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At some point they're going to have to seriously regulate the aero just because it's getting ridiculous and its the biggest area in cost, safety and performance that can be reeled in. I'm kind of hoping 2017 is the last hurrah for Big Aero and then at the next big rule change its over. Probably wishful thinking though.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:09
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1500quidporsche posted:At some point they're going to have to seriously regulate the aero just because it's getting ridiculous and its the biggest area in cost, safety and performance that can be reeled in. They should have been looking at areo regs at the same time they had to introduce drs? But F1
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Jun 21, 2016 16:11
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McLaren proposed 2017 regs and Red Bull loves them. I wonder wh-Peter Podromou, head of aer-NEVER MIND.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:19
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In my opinion the problem has always been a misunderstanding that the problem is a lack of overtaking. The problem is quality not quantity, as the tedious overtake-fest we've just had proves. It's not a simple problem to solve because quality overtaking lies on the knife edge between impossible to pass processions and it being way too easy to pass. Trying to balance on that knife edge while the teams are constantly innovating is basically impossible. As for the steering wheel, I don't buy that all of the modes are necessary. They may help improve performance and reliability but they are not necessary for the car to work, and the drivers definitely don't need to be in control of them. As other posters have suggested you could increase the granularity of the drivers' settings - make it 6 settings with 3 sub-settings instead of 12 and 15 or whatever. You wouldn't reduce the functionality, it would just be another pre-race set up thing to decide which particular settings the driver can use in that race, with the decision in the hands of the engineers as it should be. If it's disastrously not working during the race, prepare a backup steering wheel and swap it at a pit stop, it's not like that's impossible. In fact, as far as I know there is nothing that would have prevented an engineer leaning in at a pit stop and changing the setting for Hamilton if he wasn't getting it himself, but they didn't want to pit again because it was too much time to lose. Or you could allow teams to tell the drivers stuff they want to know.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:20
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Norns posted:Are they doing anything other than brake bias adjustments though? I don't think there are many adjustments on the bike (not even brake bias i think) but there have been situations where a team could have told a rider to slow down because he was blowing his tires or to pit at a different time to swap to rain tires which could have affected the outcome of the race
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Jun 21, 2016 16:35
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The bigger problem is that we don't have equalisation with the engines. This has happened with every new engine, they work out the optimums and eventually it all balances out. What then makes the difference is how much money you can pour into aero and fuel development. This is something we should have seen start to happen towards the end of 2014 but didn't because the gently caress nuts retarded token system prevented Ferrati and Renualt catching up and Honda having a do-over.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:36
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Tsaedje posted:As for the steering wheel, I don't buy that all of the modes are necessary. They may help improve performance and reliability but they are not necessary for the car to work, and the drivers definitely don't need to be in control of them. As other posters have suggested you could increase the granularity of the drivers' settings - make it 6 settings with 3 sub-settings instead of 12 and 15 or whatever. You wouldn't reduce the functionality, it would just be another pre-race set up thing to decide which particular settings the driver can use in that race, with the decision in the hands of the engineers as it should be. If it's disastrously not working during the race, prepare a backup steering wheel and swap it at a pit stop, it's not like that's impossible. for the thousandth time: this would have to be mandated by the rules. zero teams are going to do this willingly. and i cannot believe the solution to this is to double down on a bad rule with more bad rules. to suggest that the solution to hamilton's FIA-mandated problem was to drop 30+ seconds changing a steering wheel is, frankly, asinine. it's not a real problem. it's a made up problem.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:45
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Tsaedje posted:In my opinion the problem has always been a misunderstanding that the problem is a lack of overtaking. The problem is quality not quantity, as the tedious overtake-fest we've just had proves. It's not a simple problem to solve because quality overtaking lies on the knife edge between impossible to pass processions and it being way too easy to pass. Trying to balance on that knife edge while the teams are constantly innovating is basically impossible. The best part of overtaking was always the hunt that preceded it. It was always great watching a car come from 5 seconds back to swarming all over the back of the lead car and trying to find a way past. Part of the issue now is that alot of the car designers, particularly Newey, have figured out that there is a significant performance advantage in designing a car that can only ever lead at the front versus a well rounded car that does good in traffic. It's why they all hate following cars now and I don't know how you'd get rid of that beyond mandating minimum cooling requirements for the brakes and engine and then getting rid of turbulent aero.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:49
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wicka posted:for the thousandth time: this would have to be mandated by the rules. zero teams are going to do this willingly. and i cannot believe the solution to this is to double down on a bad rule with more bad rules. Did you read my whole post?
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Jun 21, 2016 16:56
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Tsaedje posted:Did you read my whole post? yes
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Jun 21, 2016 16:57
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wicka posted:yes Well then you know my opinion. The whole thing is ridiculous because of a knee jerk reaction to a minority of vocal fans thinking that engineers giving their driver information is somehow bad.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:59
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Tsaedje posted:Well then you know my opinion. The whole thing is ridiculous because of a knee jerk reaction to a minority of vocal fans thinking that engineers giving their driver information is somehow bad. you're a personal hero of mine
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Jun 21, 2016 17:01
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wicka posted:you're a personal hero of mine I just enjoy brainstorming other possible alternatives to common sense because I am an experienced F1 fan
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Jun 21, 2016 17:02
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Hey it a a step up from engine noise complaints at least
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Jun 21, 2016 17:11
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wicka posted:for the thousandth time: this would have to be mandated by the rules. zero teams are going to do this willingly. and i cannot believe the solution to this is to double down on a bad rule with more bad rules. I agree with Wicka for once. The intent of the radio restrictions is correct (I think), but it's not having the intended effect. I mean, it's hilarious that Lewis hosed it up, but there's no way "why don't we overhaul the nature of how the car is managed" is a better solution than "well, let's just go back to how it was if it's really causing issues." There are a lot of people in this thread that know a lot more about racing and cars than I do, but the sheer number of people in here saying "well just simplify it" without having much more than an inkling of how it can realistically be done, what it impacts about the rest of the car, or taking into account the R&D time/money to do that is a bit much. Edit: And honestly, I don't think this situation is so egregious that the radio rules need to be scrapped immediately or anything. It affects all teams equally, so it's fine, but I don't know that what happened to Lewis and Nico was so intrinsic to the act of driving an F1 car that it needs to be restricted to engender competition. sleepwalkers fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 17:11
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The solution to the complaint that "The engineers are driving the cars" shouldn't have been giving the drivers less info. A telemetry ban would've worked better. But again this really isn't a problem that needs to be fixed...
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Jun 21, 2016 17:13
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I think the real FIA-approved solution should involve some really overly-convoluted deal, like DRS or the new qualifying format they tried. Another poster was on the right track with a suggestion of tokens. How about they make it that you get a set amount of time to push either the drink or the radio button during a race? It's a driver's choice if he wants to be hydrated or if he wants to know what to do with his car. Of course in the name of safety there may be times where they allow a driver to have a drink regardless, but it requires going to Charlie and having him make a call about how dry the driver's voice sounds as he whines over the radio about his thirst.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:18
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"HOW THIRSTY AM I????" "I'm afraid that we can not tell you that Nico"
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Jun 21, 2016 17:20
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Nothing was wrong with the radio poo poo outside of race engineers literally coaching driver with brake points, where to lift ect. Engine modes should just be ecu or pit controlled. There's zero driver skill involved with changing an engine mode to get maximum power out of your car. None. You can't simplify the cars without removing the battery units, and uhh, gently caress off if you're about that. So please stop acting like you can just remove some poo poo and color code it and call it a day.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:21
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1500quidporsche posted:Part of the issue now is that alot of the car designers, particularly Newey, have figured out that there is a significant performance advantage in designing a car that can only ever lead at the front versus a well rounded car that does good in traffic. It's why they all hate following cars now and I don't know how you'd get rid of that beyond mandating minimum cooling requirements for the brakes and engine and then getting rid of turbulent aero. Yeah the current package encourages the current front wings with super complex aero, which of course means a car loses a huge amount of downforce when following closely behind another car (even more than they would normally).
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Jun 21, 2016 17:24
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1500quidporsche posted:The best part of overtaking was always the hunt that preceded it. It was always great watching a car come from 5 seconds back to swarming all over the back of the lead car and trying to find a way past. I'd be good with an FIA-controlled "catch-up mode" built into all the cars. Make a reduction of up to like 5% in engine power or something. Even better, don't penalize the leaders, but reward challengers by making it like a better form of DRS. Give a chasing car a permanent boost (until he passes... until he's within DRS maybe?) if he's within 5 seconds of the car in front. It would make things more interesting and increase chances to pass. sleepwalkers posted:I agree with Wicka for once. The intent of the radio restrictions is correct (I think), but it's not having the intended effect. I don't really have a big problem with the lack of communication, but I could see maybe revising it to keep out the worst of the stuff. If it gets rid of "OK, save fuel for 2 corners, then mode 2" or "coast through to the apexes and drive 1 tenth slower this lap" it would have value.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:33
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Goetta posted:"HOW THIRSTY AM I????" This is A Good Post
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Jun 21, 2016 17:34
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Nico isn't some genius eather that figured poo poo out 14 laps before Lewis or whatever. He probably just had more Post-its that didn't fly off.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:38
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Norns posted:Nico isn't some genius eather that figured poo poo out 14 laps before Lewis or whatever. He probably just had more Post-its that didn't fly off. They straight up said Nico switched into that mode shortly before the issue so he just switched back assuming it was the last thing he changed. Where as Lewis was in that mode for a while.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:49
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gret posted:Yeah the current package encourages the current front wings with super complex aero, which of course means a car loses a huge amount of downforce when following closely behind another car (even more than they would normally). The rear diffuser, air-fill floor, tall skinny wings are the biggest contributions to turbulence behind the car and much of the reason why the front wings are unable to do their job. The front wings aren't designed to produce downforce, they are designed to route and direct air around the wheels and funnel it into the floor and rear wing. The problem is that this is an all or nothing solution, when you are in clean air it works fantastically well and you can slam that car to the ground. But if the air is too turbulent or even blowing in the wrong direction, then it doesn't really work at all. The rear diffuser isn't designed to generate downforce either (I mean the centre of it is, but not the left and right edges), they're designed for drag reduction. They "spray" air into the low pressure zones directly behind the rear wheels to reduce the pressure differential between the front and rear of the tire (and thus reduce the amount of drag). The problem with this is that it sends two huge streams of air basically sideways out of the back of the car. That's air that's not hitting the front wing of the car behind. Problem is, you can't change any one component of this system without changing all of it. Just saying "smaller diffusers!" doesn't solve the problem because 1) it throws the car off balance and makes it less stable. 2) the engineers will just find a way to do the same thing with a different part (remember when McLaren tried their stupid "mushroom" rear suspension). The rules have to be designed in such a way that the fastest car the designers can make is the one that follows the closest to the rules. But then you've made a spec series, and that's not F1.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:46
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Goetta posted:"HOW THIRSTY AM I????" "Is Justin the right man for me?" "I'm afraid that we cannot tell you that Lewis"
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Jun 21, 2016 19:47
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nsaP posted:I just like to point out that MotoGP, a.k.a. real racing, has no radios. It's every man for himself once they get out there except for the pit boards. MotoGP is actually fake racing that is ruined by Spainards
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Jun 21, 2016 20:08
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How about this, relax the rules just a bit but not so much that they get told exactly how to do stuff like safe fuel. Say if a driver is in a mode which is costing them more than 0.2 seconds per lap, then the team can tell them. Sit back and enjoy as the Rosberg panicky radio messages return: "am I in the wrong mode???" "no nico" "can you request that you can tell me" "no nico, you are not in the wrong mode" "Well why is Lewis closing the gap?!" "I'm afraid I can't tell you that nico"
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Jun 21, 2016 20:17
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wicka posted:exactly, because they are not competent or powerful enough to design foolproof aero regulations that don't produce turbulent air. it's easier for them to build new tracks from scratch to encourage overtaking. think about how insane that is. I don't think it's a competence thing, I can't think of a series who have actually solved this problem adequately without going to spec cars, which includes series with far more control over technical specs (like, say, NASCAR or V8Supercars) like this has been going on for decades at this point.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:21
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I don't think any series has made a concentrated effort to regulate aero development beyond banning things as they come up or reducing the size of certain areas of the car.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:30
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They should only allow one button on the steering wheel and force the drivers to tap out the settings in Morse code
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Jun 21, 2016 20:51
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