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Jesus, this NYT article on hunger in Venezuela is super loving grim: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/w...hone-share&_r=0 Maduro needs to be out, humanitarian aid needs to come in as soon as humanly possible. How much longer can Maduro hold sway over the military and any other institution of power is I guess a key question. I cannot possibly imagine this lasting until the end of 2016.
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Jun 20, 2016 12:07
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Venezuela is falling apart. But if you get all your news from local TV, you may get the impression that things aren’t that bad and the revolution is alive and well. The South American nation has been clamping down on independent media broadcasters for years, cowing privately owned television channels into not showing images of looting, protests, and food riots—all of which are becoming daily occurrences. In response to the media blackout, many Venezuelans have taken on the job of citizen journalists by chronicling their country’s unraveling in real time. And Twitter is their main soapbox. http://fusion.net/story/316049/how-twitter-became-the-main-source-for-real-news-in-venezuela/ But now the government is trying to tighten the noose on digital outlets as well. A study published in May by the Press and Society Institute, a Latin American media owners club, found that 43 different websites were blocked in Venezuela during a two month period. The study said that 19% of them were news sites. Media blackouts, no big deal.
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Jun 20, 2016 16:12
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I wrote an angry letter to Enhedslisten (Unity List) in Denmark about this whole thing a few weeks ago asking for left leaning parties in the EU to denounce Maduro's government as a way to rob him of legitimacy. Today I received a reply in which I was referred to this article from May 26th in which Pelle Dragsted, a Danish parlimentarian comments on Venezuela. Here's a snippet I've translated. quote:"I have not been following the situation in Venezuela very closely in the last four to five years, but as I see it, the crisis is a combination of several things," - comments Pelle Dragsted, who through several years as international secretary for the Unity List has followed Venezuela closely and often contributed to the public debate about the South American country's development. The unity lists is a far left party in an ostensibly social democratic country who are often decried as dirty socialists, so it's nice that there has at least been some rumbling about the issue. It might be a good read for Venegoons if google translate can make sense of it.
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Jun 20, 2016 18:47
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There was an active shooter event at the headquarters of the Central Bank of Venezuela today. A man walked in firing a gun, he managed to reach the second floor, bypassing all security, wounding 2 and killing one, as well as taking an employee hostage. The Venezuelan equivalent of SWAT, the BAE, intervened and killed the man. The legitimately bizarre thing was his demands. He was apparently shouting economic terms and figures during the entire time, and his demand was that he wanted to speak to Maduro, apparently to get some kind of economic information straight from him.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:47
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fnox posted:There was an active shooter event at the headquarters of the Central Bank of Venezuela today. A man walked in firing a gun, he managed to reach the second floor, bypassing all security, wounding 2 and killing one, as well as taking an employee hostage. The Venezuelan equivalent of SWAT, the BAE, intervened and killed the man. "The leader is not being told the truth by his subordinates. If only he knew the real extent of our plight I am sure he would extend his benevolent hand to aid us."
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Jun 20, 2016 23:40
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Munin posted:"The leader is not being told the truth by his subordinates. If only he knew the real extent of our plight I am sure he would extend his benevolent hand to aid us." so its stalin/hitler/the kims/mao/etc alll over again  So is Venezuela going to become the south american north Korea?
Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 00:31
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La Guaira port today: not a single ship, this is loving terrifying, anyone expecting to find some medicine might as well give up.
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Jun 21, 2016 01:23
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so its stalin/hitler/the kims/mao/etc alll over again North Korea isn't a three-hour flight from Miami. Venezuela's descent into failed famine-state will be much more dramatic.
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Jun 21, 2016 02:28
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El Hefe posted:La Guaira port today: Well, fuckballs.
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Jun 21, 2016 02:40
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Jesus its so loving depressing living here it makes me wanna cry, I just found out the American embassy aren't giving or renewing non-immigrant visas anymore so I can't go to my family in Miami anymore... http://caracas.usembassy.gov/news-events/embassy-news/new-information-niv-visa-venezuela.html
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Jun 21, 2016 03:30
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El Hefe posted:Jesus its so loving depressing living here it makes me wanna cry, I just found out the American embassy aren't giving or renewing non-immigrant visas anymore so I can't go to my family in Miami anymore... But hey, at least Maduro is sticking it to those Americans plotting to overthrow him by denying them visas and keeping them out of the country!
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Jun 21, 2016 03:33
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M. Discordia posted:North Korea isn't a three-hour flight from Miami. Venezuela's descent into failed famine-state will be much more dramatic. will it? I mean what happens if maduro goes full assad and it turns into a civil war. do the other south american countries get involved? and what about the US. El Hefe posted:La Guaira port today: Jesus gently caress. isnt that like one of the central ports?
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Jun 21, 2016 03:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:will it? I mean what happens if maduro goes full assad and it turns into a civil war. <snip> what about the US. I feel like there's no way we couldn't in that situation. We import oil from them and it's a home game, so to speak.
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Jun 21, 2016 04:54
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Jesus gently caress. isnt that like one of the central ports? Yep, I don't think it's the biggest but its certainly up there, and it's the one right next to Caracas, to boot. That is certainly scary.
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Jun 21, 2016 07:33
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El Hefe posted:Jesus its so loving depressing living here it makes me wanna cry, I just found out the American embassy aren't giving or renewing non-immigrant visas anymore so I can't go to my family in Miami anymore... The reasoning toward the bottom would explain the issue. FSOs normally rotate between posts on 2 year assignments and Venezuela has been refusing to issue visas to new staff and possibly refusing to renew those with expiring Visas. Now throw in the growing workload and fact they also won't grant Visas to the CA/CST team to refresh/maintain the consular systems (coincidentally I did that job a while back) and poo poo eventually has to stop. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 14:32
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wdarkk posted:I feel like there's no way we couldn't in that situation. We import oil from them and it's a home game, so to speak. The US is currently a net oil exporter. Two of the largest exporters are the US and Canada, both of which are very stable. If Venezuela goes full civil war oil prices will go up, but they will only keep rising until fracking becomes worth the money in the US and Canada again, or Saudi Arabia decides to flood markets with cheap oil again. Then there is the fact that renewable energy is getting cheaper, and (outside of LOL Exxon) it turns out almost all oil companies would (and will) be unprofitable the moment they actually had to pay carbon taxes (the damage they cause is higher than the profits they make). You have a lot of oil based countries including Saudi Arabia trying to diversify as fast as hell because the oil industry is going to be massive loser soon. Venezuela turning into a decades long civil war is not anything people really will care about from that angle. As for our back yard, so what? Coups, failed states, civil wars, massive violence, are nothing new in Latin America. Outside of Mexico or Argentina saber rattling at the British most of that doesn't directly affect the US and we don't really give a drat. It's also not an economy we care about, like Brazil would be. Outside of worrying about our allies around them such as Columbia who might get sucked into the violence, Venezuela is a basket case which had isolated itself so much and is so utterly incompetent that letting it turn into a full on famine and hermit state would cause a lot of "well, shame about the children, but they're crazy". It's to big to properly invade and run as a client, and not important enough to worry about if it turns into Mad Max in the jungle. And unlike North Korea it doesn't have a credible military threat to blackmail us over a regional power city (Seuol) to get all worried about. The situation sucks, but the loss of their oil on the market combined with threatening Columbia with their pathetic military will induce a lot of eye rolling and "who the gently caress are you kidding" comments rather than actual worry.
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Jun 21, 2016 14:44
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Like, seriously, I know I only come into this thread to ask questions about how this country is still functioning, but how is it still functioning?
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Jun 21, 2016 14:54
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Morrow posted:Like, seriously, I know I only come into this thread to ask questions about how this country is still functioning, but how is it still functioning? It's not a functional state.
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Jun 21, 2016 14:56
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MysteriousStranger posted:It's not a functional state. Yeah I think any of the photos in this thread recently nicely illustrate that.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:31
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MysteriousStranger posted:It's not a functional state. I mean, the government is working at 40% capacity because it's only open 2 days a week. How on earth could that be considered functional?
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Jun 21, 2016 15:54
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Some would consider the government working at 40% capacity to be an improvement, but I get your point 
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Jun 21, 2016 17:12
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El Hefe posted:Jesus its so loving depressing living here it makes me wanna cry, I just found out the American embassy aren't giving or renewing non-immigrant visas anymore so I can't go to my family in Miami anymore... yeah. my Spanish teacher(born and citizen from Venezuela) cant get her family out(one sister is trapped there still, maybe others) and she can't visit them because she of because i believe her citizenship/visa was revoked by them. It's realy depressing because she is the nicest lady ever and is a great teacher. i feel terrible for all the Venezuela goons and their families trapped there too. MysteriousStranger posted:It's not a functional state. that's an understatement.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:17
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Dapper_Swindler posted:will it? I mean what happens if maduro goes full assad and it turns into a civil war. do the other south american countries get involved? and what about the US. I don't think Maduro could afford to attempt the Assad route. I don't mean afford as in "this would go very badly for him" (although it would), I mean that I don't think he has the resources to do so. Assad has friends in other countries who will provide aid and arms - who does Maduro have to lean on? Any kind of armed conflict would immediately destroy what little remains of Venezuela's economic activity, and with it the means to keep the army fed and willing to fight for him. If Venezuela erupts into civil war, it's going to be less like Syria and more like Somalia.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:33
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I am on vacation in a Caribbean island (not Cuba) for the week, and we managed to get my grandmother and aunt to come here because we haven't been able to see them in many years. We've spent a good chunk of the trip so far going to different pharmacies with a list of medicine not only for my grandmother, but also for her neighbour back in Venezuela. We've also bought lots of basic staples (beans, rice, pasta) because they can't afford it there. Last night we went to a supermarket/pharmacy to look for my grandmother's heart medicine. The pharmacists asked us what her dosage was, and my grandmother said that her doctor told her to take it once every second day. The reason why my grandmother had been taken it once every second day was because she was about to run out and there was almost no chance that she could find it again in Venezuela, so her doctor recommended the change. The pharmacists looked at us like we were insane, because this particular medicine must be taken each day without fail. They almost didn't give us the pills, but in the end we managed to convince them. In the same place, as we were paying for our groceries, the cashier recognized our accent and said, "You're Venezuelan? I would have known even if you didn't say a word: I can always tell the Venezuelans because they buy the same stuff: tons of rice, beans, pasta, and soap, all at once".
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Jun 21, 2016 17:38
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I don't think Maduro could afford to attempt the Assad route. I don't mean afford as in "this would go very badly for him" (although it would), I mean that I don't think he has the resources to do so. Assad has friends in other countries who will provide aid and arms - who does Maduro have to lean on? Any kind of armed conflict would immediately destroy what little remains of Venezuela's economic activity, and with it the means to keep the army fed and willing to fight for him. Tyrants who run off typically pick from one of the following: 1. Former western European/North American nation they were educated in or trained militarily in. 2. Leftists/socialist/communist nation that backed your rise to power. 3. Country where the leadership is friendly to you because you gave them tons of some resource. Options 1 and 2 require you having been a proper client of a power strong enough to flip it's nose at the world over it that just wants the entire mess to go away and have nobody ever mention it again. He's a former bus driver and he's nobodies client that they owe anything to, if he was this nonsense would have been fixed long ago. He's really got two options, either try to one party the state North Korea style and hope he can hold on to power, or hope he grifted enough money from the country he can run off to some poo poo hole he was giving cheap oil to and live out the rest of his days there. Being able to flee the wreckage of your country to some place nice usually involves running away to a place you were educated in, trained militarily in, and had close ties in. He's a bus driver!
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Jun 21, 2016 17:58
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Chuck Boone posted:In the same place, as we were paying for our groceries, the cashier recognized our accent and said, "You're Venezuelan? I would have known even if you didn't say a word: I can always tell the Venezuelans because they buy the same stuff: tons of rice, beans, pasta, and soap, all at once".  That happens a lot, people that work in supermarkets, pharmacies or as government functionaries have enough contact with Venezuelans that they start coming up with procedures for us. Back when we first arrived in Madrid, you could still send 200$ to your direct family outside of Venezuela. The process was a total loving nightmare as usual in Venezuela's bureaucracy, and one of the requisites (for a while, they changed every 2-3 months) was a letter signed by the mayor (I'm not sure about the translation, Alcalde) of our municipality that swore we were living there. It's a crazy requisite and there are no usual channels to get that, but once we explained we were Venezuelans the girl spoke to someone else inside and gave us the letter. "We have a bunch inside ready for you guys, we get around a dozen request a month". I have to say, in my experience everyone that knows our situation is extremely sympathetic. Well, unless they are with Podemos but that's a discussion for another thread.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:12
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My mom hasn't taken her heart medicine in months now because she can't find any, somehow she feels fine but it has probably taken a few years off her life...
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Jun 21, 2016 18:51
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El Hefe posted:My mom hasn't taken her heart medicine in months now because she can't find any, somehow she feels fine but it has probably taken a few years off her life... So do you have any plans on trying to flee the country in some unapproved way? I mean, it hardly seems as if things are going to start getting better at this point. Or is the plan just to stick it out and hope at this point? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 18:54
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Things are only going to get worse before they get better that's for sure. I went to my cousin's place this Sunday for father's day and my aunt was talking about how she was planning on going on vacation to Miami and New York in August to shop and stuff because she was dying to shop in Zara and I wanted to grab her and slap the poo poo out of her "DON'T YOU REALIZE WHERE WE ARE LIVING YOU loving MORON?" there are still lots of people like that sadly.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:02
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VICE News put up a short video about grocery shopping in Venezuela: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SeVv277d0I
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Jun 21, 2016 19:58
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About 6 years ago I was doing some renovations at home and I saw what one of the workers brought for lunch and it was a big bowl of rice with beans and a small piece of chicken and I remember feeling bad for him because the piece of chicken was so small but now he'd be lucky if he even had a small bowl of rice.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:15
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beer_war posted:VICE News put up a short video about grocery shopping in Venezuela: Oh hey I recognize a couple of locations shot, the first one of the long rear end queue of people waiting outside a parking lot was Plaza Las Americas in El Cafetal, the next ones with the man are in Los Palos Grandes. There's a couple of places I don't recognize, but they seem to be in Plaza Venezuela. I see the lines outside of Plaza Las Americas and around the supermarkets in Los Palos Grandes every day. Every single day they're longer, more aggressive, and for less and less poo poo. I would say they're 90% constituted of people who are not residents of either El Cafetal or Los Palos Grandes.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:30
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Wonder how the government will spin thisquote:Veteran U.S. diplomat Tom Shannon will meet with senior Venezuelan government and opposition officials Tuesday in Caracas, a week after Secretary of State John Kerry announced he wanted to ease tensions between the two countries. http://www.voanews.com/content/vete..._medium=twitter
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Jun 22, 2016 00:45
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Xandu posted:Wonder how the government will spin this Maduro said they can stick their dialogue up their rear end today.
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Jun 22, 2016 00:48
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Xandu posted:Wonder how the government will spin this Translation of Kerryspeak: we hear your country is in the process of burning to the ground and failed states are annoying to deal with, especially when they aren't on islands (sorry, Haiti). Fake edit: Maduro really is the goddamn worst. At least North Korea goes with "Glorious Leader has so intimidated and impressed the Americans that they are willing to pay tribute."
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Jun 22, 2016 00:54
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El Hefe posted:Maduro said they can stick their dialogue up their rear end today. Ha, not surprising. I hate to say it, but given the US history there of being anti-Chavez and the government blaming the crisis at least partly on America, it's difficult to see how the US can do any good there. Should just stay out of it and offer aid if/when the government is replaced.
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Jun 22, 2016 00:54
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Xandu posted:Ha, not surprising. I hate to say it, but given the US history there of being anti-Chavez and the government blaming the crisis at least partly on America, it's difficult to see how the US can do any good there. Should just stay out of it and offer aid if/when the government is replaced. And leave us to who? The loving MUD? If there is SOME possibility of order being restored to the country it's going to come from the US. I have no idea what the agenda for PSUV is going to be after literal years of diplomatic policy following Chavez maxim: "go gently caress yourselves, you loving yankees", and brainwashing millions of civilians into thinking that the US was the enemy, but that's entirely on Maduro's hands.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:01
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El Hefe posted:Maduro said they can stick their dialogue up their rear end today. did he. well i am sure he will be regreting that when the bus full of militia/rebels run over his head when they execute him. fnox posted:And leave us to who? The loving MUD? If there is SOME possibility of order being restored to the country it's going to come from the US. I have no idea what the agenda for PSUV is going to be after literal years of diplomatic policy following Chavez maxim: "go gently caress yourselves, you loving yankees", and brainwashing millions of civilians into thinking that the US was the enemy, but that's entirely on Maduro's hands. who knows at this point. I am sure a few "company men" are talking to the opposition groups to see how the wind blowing and if a coup or uprising is possible.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:31
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Xandu posted:Ha, not surprising. I hate to say it, but given the US history there of being anti-Chavez and the government blaming the crisis at least partly on America, it's difficult to see how the US can do any good there. Should just stay out of it and offer aid if/when the government is replaced. Maybe the US should just very publicly offer to roll up with a few container ships full of food and medicine aid. I can't imagine the public response would be at all positive if he refused them. If he accepted, a lot of Venezuelans would get food and medicine. Seems like a win-win there. EDIT: I just realized he could use control of distribution to bribe the military and other supporters to entrench his rule. gently caress.
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Jun 22, 2016 04:25
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Maybe the US should just very publicly offer to roll up with a few container ships full of food and medicine aid. I can't imagine the public response would be at all positive if he refused them. If he accepted, a lot of Venezuelans would get food and medicine. Seems like a win-win there. Well, the government has already publicly denied humanitarian aid. It's pretty safe to say they don't care what Venezuelans think, as far as the official party lines go there's no one going hungry or dying due to lack of medicine in Venezuela, we're just going through a rough patch due to the "economic war". Plus, they're already using control of the distribution to bribe the military and other supporters. The military supervises food transports of regulated products and the CLAPS distribute them to whomever they decide.
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Jun 22, 2016 04:30
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