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Should I stay or should I go? This poll is closed. |
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| Please stay |
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195 | 31.20% |
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136 | 21.76% |
| Who cares? |
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99 | 15.84% |
| gently caress you op, your soccer sucks and your tea tastes like poo poo! |
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195 | 31.20% |
| Total: | 625 votes | ||
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RobattoJesus posted:Also Greece is starting to elect Nazis, not "ho ho Trump = Hitler" Nazis, but actual Hitler = Hitler Nazis. If you haven't noticed, nationalism is on the rise throughout Europe. Poland voted the aptly-named PiS party pretty much on the basis of immigration and they've started media crackdowns, gutting the military, and wooing the Polish Catholic Church (you read that right). And France has had the National Front become more popular in recent years. One of the major factors has been Russian "soft power" being used with their dwindling cash reserves. Especially after Ukraine and the sanctions imposed, Putin is interested in creating an Europe that is fragmented and more conducive to Russian influence. For example, Putin bankrolled National Front's recent electoral wins and sponsored a nationalist meeting in Crimea to which National Front were guests. Don't think it couldn't happen in with the Leave parties in this Brexit debate, because Russia has it's reasons to weaken the EU, NATO, and Britain. Also don't think it can't happen in the United States, either.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:18
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fyodor posted:I always see you arguing on these forums why do you even care what goons think lol. The last desperate gasps of a fake conservative in the face of an inevitable leave victory
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Jun 22, 2016 17:18
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Young Freud posted:If you haven't noticed, nationalism is on the rise throughout Europe. Poland voted the aptly-named PiS party pretty much on the basis of immigration and they've started media crackdowns, gutting the military, and wooing the Polish Catholic Church (you read that right). And France has had the National Front become more popular in recent years. Austria just almost elected a nationalist racist as well. The left's inability to get their poo poo together is driving people to the reactionary right.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:19
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Revenants Return posted:What does this mean? Stupid libtard organization trying to get Muslims and Black people to vote.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:19
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How dare citizens of the UK vote on a UK referendum don't they know only pasty whites are allowed to have a say?
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Jun 22, 2016 17:19
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Roylicious posted:lol someone got a C in Econ 101. The problem with economics is economists. It's like if math nerds all picked their favorite between algebra and geometry and refused to accept that math can solve problems outside their chosen school of thought
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Jun 22, 2016 17:20
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City of Tampa posted:it's non-binding so the government is just going to go "lol nope" if the leave vote wins anyway This is all I'm hoping for. I want to see the UK politics turn into Jerry Springer's greatest hits.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:20
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Roylicious posted:Do you have a link that doesn't require me to sign in? No, it was open for me but apparently linking causes some kind of paywall nonsense. I dunno loving google it. Roylicious posted:The EU is def a neoliberal candy land keep telling yourself that as the UK government dismantles all your social programs in the name of austerity. The EU has a mandated 3% public deficit threshold. So if you vote in an actual left wing government good luck trying to stimulate your economy. Roylicious posted:lol someone got a C in Econ 101. This is true.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:20
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e: wait nm
Roylicious fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 17:21
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In the modern age of clever word combinations, 'Brexit' is officially the laziest and most nonsensical one out there. The whole point is to merge two words in such a way that an explanation is unnecessary (i.e. mansplaining). If the two words don't rhyme or share a syllable or have anything in common at all you don't just brainlessly smoosh them together. The Leave faction ought to be punished for this grievous offence by being forced to buy Natalie Portman a manor house in France, as well as the responsibility of naming it. Maybe then they will learn how to generate an actual portmanteau.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:22
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let's all take our time and research our positions and create carefully worded discussion and debate these points in a meaningful and purposeful manner.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:22
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Roylicious posted:Public deficit and stimulating the private sector are not mutually exclusive and in fact the often go hand in hand. Why don't you go and stimulate your own private sector. Hand in hand.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:23
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RobattoJesus posted:Why don't you go and stimulate your own private sector. Hand in hand. Man it's early but yeah maybe I should
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Jun 22, 2016 17:24
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In the future there will only be the American Federation, the Russian Federation, the Chinese Federation, and the Caliphate. Join our great American Federation my friends and vote to Leave.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:24
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satanic splash-back posted:let's all take our time and research our positions and create carefully worded discussion and debate these points in a meaningful and purposeful manner. Everyone overreact immediately.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:24
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so basically how I understand the EU is that "Brussels" (the EU equivalent of D.C.?) basically wants the EU to be like America where there is a nonsensical focus on debt even though nobody can explain why, and it's used as an excuse to never do anything that might raise taxes on millionaires or construct anything that could benefit people outside of the 1%. Also everything must be privatized and also gently caress you poor people here's a bunch of violent and extremely conservative immigrants to drive down wages of the lowest skilled workers (because the pittance they get is too much as it is) and you're a racist if you disagree
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Jun 22, 2016 17:28
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Roylicious posted:The EU is def a neoliberal candy land keep telling yourself that as the UK government dismantles all your social programs in the name of austerity what makes you think the people of the UK don't absolutely want this outcome? the people in power in UK hero worship the US and China i don't think social programs and labor rights are things they give a poo poo about the UK has never been a socialist country. the UK has always loved their capitalism. the UK doesn't fit in with the rest of europe, culturally.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:31
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Tuxedo Gin posted:what makes you think the people of the UK don't absolutely want this outcome? I'm sure they do but don't bitch when it looks like Greece that's all I'm saying because you guys ain't got the colonies feeding you wealth anymore. And you say that but I bet if a British citizen lived in the USA for a year and had to deal with our healthcare system they'd be kicking and screaming for NHS reform rather than just total gutting of NHS.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:32
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City of Tampa posted:so basically how I understand the EU is that "Brussels" (the EU equivalent of D.C.?) basically wants the EU to be like America where there is a nonsensical focus on debt even though nobody can explain why, and it's used as an excuse to never do anything that might raise taxes on millionaires or construct anything that could benefit people outside of the 1%. Well yes, but the idea that brexit would save the damp isles from the EU is utter folly. Even outside the union the beer soaked lard creatures of england would have to follow EU regulations and rules. Really the entire brexit circus is just the last hurrah of a nation losing it's right to self-determination.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:32
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City of Tampa posted:so basically how I understand the EU is that "Brussels" (the EU equivalent of D.C.?) basically wants the EU to be like America where there is a nonsensical focus on debt even though nobody can explain why, and it's used as an excuse to never do anything that might raise taxes on millionaires or construct anything that could benefit people outside of the 1%. Also, only cool dudes like me get to vote
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Jun 22, 2016 17:33
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RobattoJesus posted:If you vote Brexit you'll immediately turn into a foul mouthed racist with terrible fashion sense. Namaste you oval office
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Jun 22, 2016 17:35
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It's funny to see all of this fighting over the brexit, though, since it's transparently clear about which countries have any importan ce to the EU. No one seems to care about successes of Eurosceptic parties in countries like Italy! And in 2016 I think the people in power in the west, even those on the "left," tend to embrace a more neoliberal approach to things, often at the expense of poorer people.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:37
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kikkelivelho posted:Well yes, but the idea that brexit would save the damp isles from the EU is utter folly. Even outside the union the beer soaked lard creatures of england would have to follow EU regulations and rules. Really the entire brexit circus is just the last hurrah of a nation losing it's right to self-determination. maybe it doesn't save them but it lets them gently caress up in their own way instead of the way that foreign neoliberal elites have dictated they should it's just like the choice between Clinton and Trump, do we support something that is a known and familiar evil (Clinton/Stay in EU), or try to pull a wildcard that may end up worse but also may end up way better?(Trump/Brexit)
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Jun 22, 2016 17:38
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Or you could take the middle path and demand that the Germans stop dictating the EU's economic policy and get some reform done rather than take your ball and go home where the roof is leaking and your ball will get stolen. Which is probably what will end up happening and probably that's all this referendum is in the end (jockeying for leverage).
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Jun 22, 2016 17:41
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I couldn't give a rats rear end about the British economy, I just want Brexit so we can kick all the bloody brown immigrants and poles out.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:41
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Roylicious posted:I'm sure they do but don't bitch when it looks like Greece that's all I'm saying because you guys ain't got the colonies feeding you wealth anymore. it won't look like greece because greece was failing to prop up very generous social programs it'll look like the US people in debt, massive corporate profits, and any issues causing problems for the average brit will 100% be the fault of browns/europeans this is what they want. let them have it. also go play in d&d instead of trying to debate all of gbs gbs is for butts, not actual political debate
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Jun 22, 2016 17:43
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City of Tampa posted:maybe it doesn't save them but it lets them gently caress up in their own way instead of the way that foreign neoliberal elites have dictated they should It really doesn't, though, since everything the UK would do after leaving would be dictated by outside powers, including the EU. Germany and France would also probably go out of their way to make things tough on the UK if they left. I think you could draw some comparisons to the socio-economic issues surrounding the dominance of London. And, if we're being honest, after both world wars, Western Europe as a whole can really only project meaningful power as a block. Kind of a problem when some countries clearly have more control and try to force consensus on certain issues, but that's how it is. Roylicious posted:Or you could take the middle path and demand that the Germans stop dictating the EU's economic policy and get some reform done rather than take your ball and go home where the roof is leaking and your ball will get stolen. Do you think that would seriously happen though? I don't really see it happening any time soon.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:45
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How do I use my dual citizenship to vote on this while living in the US
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Jun 22, 2016 17:50
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Roylicious posted:Or you could take the middle path and demand that the Germans stop dictating the EU's economic policy and get some reform done rather than take your ball and go home where the roof is leaking and your ball will get stolen. it is far too late for this Europe is lost
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Jun 22, 2016 17:50
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Fire Barrel posted:Do you think that would seriously happen though? I don't really see it happening any time soon. Here's the thing about Europe: no one can get together and agree on jack poo poo even the people who are supposedly 100% ideologically aligned. So no it's not going to happen anytime soon because nothing happens anytime soon over there and if it does it's haphazard and not thought out well. Unless things have changed in the last few years (it's been a while since I was there). Bunch of hens in a henhouse. UK might be a bit different I guess but good luck trying to get anything done quickly in Germany. Takes a week plus just to buy a car with cash. Fire Barrel posted:It really doesn't, though, since everything the UK would do after leaving would be dictated by outside powers, including the EU. Germany and France would also probably go out of their way to make things tough on the UK if they left. I think you could draw some comparisons to the socio-economic issues surrounding the dominance of London. I agree with all this.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:50
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Roylicious posted:Or you could take the middle path and demand that the Germans stop dictating the EU's economic policy and get some reform done rather than take your ball and go home where the roof is leaking and your ball will get stolen. Enrich corporations at the expense of national governments, act like this is happening by consent (which it sort of is but only very sort of), and then don't tax them. Let workers move around so the most skilled ones end up in the UK/Germany and the dumb ones in the most desperate parts of Europe you can mainly replace with robots and/or pay gently caress all with your mobile untaxed capital. Tramadol Junkie posted:I couldn't give a rats rear end about the British economy, I just want Brexit so we can kick all the bloody brown immigrants and poles out.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:52
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Fire Barrel posted:It really doesn't, though, since everything the UK would do after leaving would be dictated by outside powers, including the EU. Germany and France would also probably go out of their way to make things tough on the UK if they left. I think you could draw some comparisons to the socio-economic issues surrounding the dominance of London. if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent Tuxedo Gin posted:it won't look like greece because greece was failing to prop up very generous social programs but that's where they are headed at the direction of the EU, no? How does staying in the EU prevent England from becoming America?
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Jun 22, 2016 17:54
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City of Tampa posted:if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent
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Jun 22, 2016 17:55
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satanic splash-back posted:2016: Britain leaves the EU 2020: Ivanka crowned Queen. 
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Jun 22, 2016 17:55
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The funniest thing about Brexit is that the Bremainers think that if they win the populists they've just beaten will go away, and the Brexiteers think that if they win all the hashtag no borders people will just shut up. The only thing that is certain is that Britain has almost completed its transformation into the USA where everyone just runs around shouting LIEBERALLLLLS and CONSERVAAAATIVES all day long.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:57
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City of Tampa posted:if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent the EU let in too many brown people and slavs and now they're all moving to the UK the UK is a lot like middle america trump would probably win in the UK, too
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Jun 22, 2016 17:57
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City of Tampa posted:if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent It's like when Hitler came to power, Britain should have just listened to the solid economic arguments of joining the 3rd reich.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:58
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RobattoJesus posted:The funniest thing about Brexit is that the Bremainers think that if they win the populists they've just beaten will go away, and the Brexiteers think that if they win all the hashtag no borders people will just shut up.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:59
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Tramadol Junkie posted:I couldn't give a rats rear end about the British economy, I just want Brexit so we can kick all the bloody brown immigrants and poles out. Not only do I hope they stay in the EU, but I hope they ramp up immigration by 10,000% and force you to live with refugees and treat them like actual human beings. It probably kills you to realize that curries are the best "British" food 
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Jun 22, 2016 17:59
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City of Tampa posted:if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent What are the Brits going to do about it? Either they willingly give control to the EU or they have a useless rebellion and get hosed by the EU anyway. Maybe they should've thought about that when they still had the ability to change things. This vote is like the 2016 version of the Greek exit vote.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:00
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