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MSG is fine. No reason to fret over it as opposed to using soy, fish sauce, tomatoes, hard cheeses, nori, or any of the other sources of free glutamate. And it's not going to cover up bad ingredients any more than adding any of the things I just listed will.
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Jun 21, 2016 11:19
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SubG posted:MSG is fine. No reason to fret over it as opposed to using soy, fish sauce, tomatoes, hard cheeses, nori, or any of the other sources of free glutamate. And it's not going to cover up bad ingredients any more than adding any of the things I just listed will. This is the main reason I don't use it. I have two different brands of fish sauce I use regularly and I buy the ~fancy~ soy sauce (Pearl River Bridge Premium), and that about covers my salty-umami needs for the handful of Asian recipes I actually know how to cook.
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Jun 21, 2016 11:22
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Bertrand Hustle posted:This is the main reason I don't use it. I have two different brands of fish sauce I use regularly and I buy the ~fancy~ soy sauce (Pearl River Bridge Premium), and that about covers my salty-umami needs for the handful of Asian recipes I actually know how to cook. But there are plenty of places where you might want a little MSG where soy or fish sauce would be out of place---gravies, soups, breadings, and so on. I mean you don't have to use MSG in them or anything. But it's really like adding a little extra salt---sometimes you taste what you have and it just needs a little push. If you find yourself using a shitload of the stuff you really need to take a step back and take a look at the fundamentals, but there's no shame in using a dash of the stuff if a dish happens to need it.
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Jun 21, 2016 11:37
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Let's discuss what's really important. Extra chunky peanut butter is the best and creamy is made for picky eaters and children. This is a well documented scientifically proven fact.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:49
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I like MSG on my eggs and like to use it for fun if I am not using any natural sources.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:55
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Croatoan posted:Let's discuss what's really important. Extra chunky peanut butter is the best and creamy is made for picky eaters and children. This is a well documented scientifically proven fact. Fight me.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:30
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Croatoan posted:Let's discuss what's really important. Extra chunky peanut butter is the best and creamy is made for picky eaters and children. This is a well documented scientifically proven fact. I respect your opinion, much like I respect the opinion of Flat Earthers.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:14
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What else do people like half processed?
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Jun 21, 2016 17:16
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My idea nut butter would be to find one that is without added sugar, but still has salt in it, and will not separate and require stirring every time I want a cracker with some peanut butter on it.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:31
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bongwizzard posted:My idea nut butter would be to find one that is without added sugar, but still has salt in it, and will not separate and require stirring every time I want a cracker with some peanut butter on it. Put the jar in the fridge when you're done mixing it.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:35
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Hopper posted:Nice find. Over here you only find it in giant plastic bags in Asian food stores. Where are you? I see "Accent Flavor Enhancer" (MSG) all over the place near the salt / spices. 
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Jun 21, 2016 19:07
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Food Therapy Friday ended up spanning the weekend--hit farmer's markets Saturday for some South Carolina peaches and made peach jam, then let it set for a bit, and Monday night I made porkchops in a peach jam/white wine/thyme/ginger glaze and brie-filled croissants to put the jam straight from the jar on.
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Jun 21, 2016 22:26
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ulmont posted:Where are you? I see "Accent Flavor Enhancer" (MSG) all over the place near the salt / spices. Germany. I meant a pack that literally says MSG though. I am sure there are loads of flavour enhancers e.g. Maggie, but they would never advertise it as pure MSG. Most people would not buy that. MSG has a fairly bad rep over here. Mostly due to the cancer and healthiness debate. I also prefer fish sauce, Worcestershire or similar ingredients to boost the flavour, while technically the same, it seems more natural to me than to add some chemical crystals to my food, but that's subjective opinion.
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Jun 22, 2016 00:11
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Hopper posted:Germany. I meant a pack that literally says MSG though. I am sure there are loads of flavour enhancers e.g. Maggie, but they would never advertise it as pure MSG. Most people would not buy that. MSG has a fairly bad rep over here. Mostly due to the cancer and healthiness debate.
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Jun 22, 2016 00:14
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Hopper posted:Germany. I meant a pack that literally says MSG though. I am sure there are loads of flavour enhancers e.g. Maggie, but they would never advertise it as pure MSG. Most people would not buy that. MSG has a fairly bad rep over here. Mostly due to the cancer and healthiness debate. How do you think they make MSG powder?
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Jun 22, 2016 00:20
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:How do you think they make MSG powder? They science it!
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Jun 22, 2016 00:49
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Croatoan posted:They science it!
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Jun 22, 2016 01:16
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SubG posted:A surprising number of `chemical crystals' produced on industrial scales are in fact bacteria poo poo. That is, you find a bacteria that'll eat sugar and poo poo out the thing you're interested in (or a precursor to it) and just let nature take its course. Truly, we live in the future. That's the stuff of scifi, and it's real.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:19
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SubG posted:A surprising number of `chemical crystals' produced on industrial scales are in fact bacteria poo poo. That is, you find a bacteria that'll eat sugar and poo poo out the thing you're interested in (or a precursor to it) and just let nature take its course. Is that how they make creamy peanut butter? That stuff is gross.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:21
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MSG is cool and good, I also use fish sauce and what not. Like lets say I want to cook my salmon super crispy, and its a really oily and fatty salmon. I will use MSG as it crisps better. Also, crunchy peanut butter is clearly the superior peanut butter. Unless you just really hate texture, you autistic fucks.
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Jun 22, 2016 06:26
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Secret Spoon posted:MSG is cool and good, I also use fish sauce and what not. Like lets say I want to cook my salmon super crispy, and its a really oily and fatty salmon. I will use MSG as it crisps better. I hate texture, and I hate you. 
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Jun 22, 2016 09:08
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Croatoan posted:Is that how they make creamy peanut butter? 
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Jun 22, 2016 09:12
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Secret Spoon posted:MSG is cool and good, I also use fish sauce and what not. Like lets say I want to cook my salmon super crispy, and its a really oily and fatty salmon. I will use MSG as it crisps better. Smooth and buttery is a texture. And a good one at that.
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Jun 22, 2016 12:57
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Secret Spoon posted:MSG is cool and good, I also use fish sauce and what not. Like lets say I want to cook my salmon super crispy, and its a really oily and fatty salmon. I will use MSG as it crisps better. How's that work and how much msg do you use? Crunchy peanutbutter 5eva
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Jun 22, 2016 13:11
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I think all varieties and textures of nut butters are pretty much awesome in their own way.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:30
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exquisite tea posted:Put the jar in the fridge when you're done mixing it. Also unacceptable. I don't care what chemical it takes to keep it homogenized, but I want my salty nut butter to flow free.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:41
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bongwizzard posted:Also unacceptable. I don't care what chemical it takes to keep it homogenized, but I want my salty nut butter to flow free. This is why Jif et. al add saturated fats back into their peanut butter to begin with. Normal vegetable oil being unsaturated is liquid at room temperature, you can't have one without the other.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:54
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bongwizzard posted:Also unacceptable. I don't care what chemical it takes to keep it homogenized, but I want my salty nut butter to flow free. Palm oil, usually. Dreadfully unsustainable deforesting palm oil. We have found an excellent peanut butter here that is PO free and hardly separated if bought fresh.
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Jun 22, 2016 14:08
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I made peanut butter once for a recipe. It came out burnt and too thick for human consumption. Drying cement with a hint of burning is not a good taste or texture for peanut butter.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:31
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MrSlam posted:I made peanut butter once for a recipe. It came out burnt and too thick for human consumption. Drying cement with a hint of burning is not a good taste or texture for peanut butter. How? Isn't it just ground peanuts? How did it get burned?
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Jun 22, 2016 16:01
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Esme posted:How? Isn't it just ground peanuts? How did it get burned? I roasted the peanuts ahead of time. They were fine when they were just peanuts but somewhere along the line roasted peanut butter turned into dark tarry peanut butter. I think either it was too much flavor for one recipe or I wasn't diligent enough in removing all the skins which added the burned flavor.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:08
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Hopper posted:Nice find. Over here you only find it in giant plastic bags in Asian food stores. I legit have a 1lb can of MSG in my pantry. I have a separate (small) salt shaker type thing labelled MSG sitting right next to the salt, back, & white pepper right next to my stove. You have to have a light touch to use it properly, and yeah you can totally tell when a dish has a lot of MSG in it, but if you use it properly and in the right dishes, it can totally do some next level poo poo to your cooking. As can fish sauce or whatever, but I keep a bottle of fish sauce next to my stove too. pure MSG I tend to put in meat stews or marinades for meat, if I'm cooking vegetables or making a salad dressing or something, I'll never do pure MSG, always fish sauce.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:09
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bongwizzard posted:Also unacceptable. I don't care what chemical it takes to keep it homogenized, but I want my salty nut butter to flow free. My first guess would probably be sodium citrate, but I'm not sure how it would act in such a low-water environment.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:29
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Since I researched it a year ago, here's a brief MSG safetychat effortpost Executive summary- it's harmless in humans in any normal setting, you'd have to be completely insane with it to even theoretically hurt someone. The best evidence anyone could find for an effect was still anecdotal, unblinded, and required people to eat whole grams of MSG, raw, at once. The only reason there's even remotely a belief it causes problems in the US is because of the following reasons: 1. Labeling feedback effects. When more people believed that MSG could hurt you/was a way of hiding cheap foods/was cheating/could incude or reduce satiety, food manufacturers began labeling their stuff as "MSG-free". It was a bit like gluten labeling- you did it even if it made no sense. Many labels still carry the statement, and thus people see them and think there's a reason they're there. 2. Foreign markets. Some false beliefs about nutrition and health are, incredibly, even more prevalent overseas than in the US. Immigrant populations (particularly from Europe as far as I could tell) are a renewable source of concerns about MSG. Maybe there's a labeling regime difference in the EU- I'd need to check. 3. John Olney. A moderately famous medical researcher from the 60s-70s who did some important work on neurotoxicity and forms of brain damage. Like any number of successful scientists, he developed fringey policy beliefs later in his career and wanted much tighter restrictions on a bunch of food additives that contain/are amino acids that in any way interact with the nervous system, including aspartame (potentially legitimate because of the phenylalanine/PKU issue, though that's not his rationale) and MSG. This was mostly because these substances can have harmful effects in rodent, and in some cases, monkey, model studies. This article represents pretty much the tail end of the debate in the sciences, by my reckoning. People have mostly moved on, but Olney was influential, so it will still be awhile before the position is entirely forgotten. There is a plausible harm mechanism here for those who are interested. This is because MSG is an amino acid and a number of amino acids can, in theory, with a sufficient dose, basically overstimulate the brain, causing neuron death. This is what happened in the mouse and primate studies Olney did, which is why he developed a strong opposition to MSG. But note that this isn't new There are a ton of food ingredients that can do massive damage to humans, at way smaller doses. The only cautionary lesson to possibly take from this is to not do cinnamon-challenge style dare binges of individual flavorants, especially natural ones. A bunch of them can cause very harmful effects eaten alone in nutty megadoses. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 18:51
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therattle posted:Palm oil, usually. Dreadfully unsustainable deforesting palm oil. We have found an excellent peanut butter here that is PO free and hardly separated if bought fresh. I would murder a panda like quarterly if that would assure my PB perfection, but let me know what brand you found. bartolimu posted:My first guess would probably be sodium citrate, but I'm not sure how it would act in such a low-water environment. I have some SC, but I have no idea how to incorporate it into the peanut butter. I don't know if my immersion blender is up to the task. My current favorite is the Wegmans house brand of "natural" PB, it is on point for flavor, does not separate too badly, but is just a little too thin for cracker use
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Jun 22, 2016 19:07
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SubG posted:How do you feel about salt? Salt is harvested from the sea or from mines, it naturally occurs in a concentrated form, it is not a synthesized crystal, which is what I ment by "chemical crystal". SymmetryrtemmyS posted:How do you think they make MSG powder? Honestly, no idea, but I assume it is either synthesized from other compounds or produced large scale by bacteria and then crystallized. Personally just prefer ingredients that enhance the flavour and are "made naturally" instead, same as I would rather use real vanilla or vanilla extract (real vanilla pod aroma extracted into an alcohol) than vanilla aroma that is either synthesized from other chemical compounds or shat out by bacteria. Yes it is the same moldecule but it is not "natural". This is not something I think is better or "the right way", just a thing I do when I cook and can decide what goes in my food. I will eat anything somebody cooks for me that contains MSG without blinking, except in those terrible "Asian" restaurants over here where you start salivating on the front porch and can smell the typical MSG-aroma a mile away.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:35
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Hopper posted:I would rather use real vanilla or vanilla extract (real vanilla pod aroma extracted into an alcohol) than vanilla aroma that is either synthesized from other chemical compounds or shat out by bacteria. Yes it is the same moldecule but it is not "natural". Artificial flavors like vanilla have some of the same flavor compounds as real vanilla, but the real thing has more flavor compounds and has a different and more complex flavor, generally speaking. That's the reason most prefer real vanilla.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:15
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Hopper posted:except in those terrible "Asian" restaurants over here where you start salivating on the front porch and can smell the typical MSG-aroma a mile away. No dude, that's called fryer grease and sugar. That's what you're smelling. Also lol at the "shat out by bacteria" bit. Do you know what fermentation is at all?
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Jun 22, 2016 21:16
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Discendo Vox posted:There is a plausible harm mechanism here for those who are interested. Hopper posted:Salt is harvested from the sea or from mines, it naturally occurs in a concentrated form, it is not a synthesized crystal, which is what I ment by "chemical crystal". I mean you're entitled to whatever food rituals you want, don't let me stop you. But unless you're pulling your own salt out of the ground or have your own drying beds---or maybe if you buy only hippy-dippy organic free range salt or whatever the gently caress---the salt you're using has been processed by being milled and dissolved (whether it was originally solid or dried from seawater) centrifuged or chemically treated to separate impurities, then has had additives added---anti-caking agents, iodine, and so on---before being dried, then milled again and sized. Which, as it turns out, looks more or less like what you have to do to a batch of glutamic acid produced by bacteria in order to yield a bunch of crystalized MSG. And, you know, the glutamate in MSG is literally the same molecule that's in your `natural' fish sauce, soy, tomatoes, mushrooms, and so on. It's not like C5H8NO4 comes in one version with an `natural' label stenciled on the side and another with a `synthetic' label. It's literally identically the same molecule.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:39
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Yes but chemicals
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Jun 22, 2016 21:58
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