 It was a straightforward description of what a short but intense fling feels like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
eh i "got it" but it just wasn't very moving or insightful, which it should have been considering how the author was all writing 101 with the faux-beatnik ~untamed stream of consciousness~ poo poo, never really went anywhere. It was kind of cool but not a quarter of a TAL episode cool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2016 08:08
|
|
|
I hated it too. And I thought the standup preceding it was anticlimactic and disappointing. Opening story was really interesting though!
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2016 09:28
|
|
|
It was like Max Payne's dumbass nephew mumbling me a story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
doctorfrog posted:It was like Max Payne's dumbass nephew mumbling me a story. Lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2016 21:12
|
|
|
Honestly have no idea why they have any fiction on TAL besides being unable to find a compelling real life story. There's just no stakes when it's fake and it's always a bummer for me. Also the fiction is usually self-indulgent, twee, or lovely.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2016 22:45
|
|
|
Lydia Davis is a good short story writer but it's not really radio. Maybe some of her stories could be but that's probably the longest story she's got, most are like 2-3 paragraphs or less.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Honestly have no idea why they have any fiction on TAL besides being unable to find a compelling real life story. There's just no stakes when it's fake and it's always a bummer for me. Also the fiction is usually self-indulgent, twee, or lovely. I think good fiction can be really compelling in audio; "Paw Paw for Jesus" is still one of my favorite short pieces on the show. I think this one missed the mark, but maybe it'd work better for me if I read it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Honestly have no idea why they have any fiction on TAL besides being unable to find a compelling real life story. There's just no stakes when it's fake and it's always a bummer for me. Also the fiction is usually self-indulgent, twee, or lovely. I actually really liked that particular story, but in general, I'm always a little disappointed when a fiction segment comes up. I don't think they choose poorly, but that's just not why I listen. You're right that there aren't any stakes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
I liked this one but probably because it wasn't trying to be funny (and wasn't David Sedaris)
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
I normally hate the fiction pieces on TAL but I thought the Lydia Davis story was great. The only downside was it felt very, very long, so if I had been listening in a different environment I might've found it annoying.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
I'm just a podcast listener here, but no ep last week? Anyway, midway through this week's ep and I'm so scared of being some frothing at the mouth reddity hatemonger anti-"sjw" lunatic...but I'm finding it absolutely infuriating. Also really disappointed Dan Savage didn't appear.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 17:22
|
|
|
Honestly, if you find it infuriating then you're probably the reddit type and didn't pay attention to anything they said in it.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 17:47
|
|
|
I definitely vacillated between frustration and understanding. I think I landed on the conclusion that it sucks to be fat, it's not always the person's fault, people are really lovely to fat people, but fat people are not as sympathetic as poor minorities. But a lot of poor minorities are also fat, and that is the pits. The thing about being invisible in the dating scene is also true about minorities. Any brown person who has used a dating app knows that just being not white is a material disadvantage to getting laid. But infuriated? Yeah that's some weird energy behind that, might want to look into it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Maybe I am. I'm all for stopping the weird shaming and hate and questioning what happens when society deems one subset of people okay to bully, and that there are a lot of factors at play in obesity. I mean I appreciated the part where they said Dan Savage no longer goes for the easy punchlines when he writes about this issue. But on the other hand, the person in the story wasn't BORN at 250+lbs (I'm honestly not even sure bathroom scales this side of the atlantic go up that high) and if she's knocking things over with her fat and breaking chairs - maybe something is wrong and maybe she needs help.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
I think the point is that people feel entitled to correct them and tell them there's something wrong with them even though everyone has got their problems. On the other hand, if you're breaking chairs and taking up too much space and making others uncomfortable with your sheer mass, there is grounds for people to think it IS their business. A black guy doesn't cause you discomfort by merely being black around you unless you're a racist. But a fat dude spilling over into your armrest or squashing everyone in an elevator is pretty lovely.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
All I thought after listening to this episode was why the gently caress isn't phentermine prescribed more often in the US instead of loving statins and opiods?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
I found "Dan Savage had no interest in revisiting, and we didn't press him at all about it because we like him and his podcast which you should definitely check out!!!" to be a little frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
AngryBooch posted:All I thought after listening to this episode was why the gently caress isn't phentermine prescribed more often in the US instead of loving statins and opiods? I would say that this woman's screaming psychological addiction is at least one reason, though I guess that doesn't explain opioids.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 05:31
|
|
|
The Modern Leper posted:I would say that this woman's screaming psychological addiction is at least one reason, though I guess that doesn't explain opioids. Replacing food addiction with an addiction to phentermine is certainly a trade off. But it's much less addictive than say, adderall because there is no dopamine release.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
Is it addiction to the drug, or addiction to being thin which she can only achieve with the drug?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:Is it addiction to the drug, or addiction to being thin which she can only achieve with the drug? It's the results, because she works on the media and immediately started getting jobs after not changing anything but her weight. It was a good, honest piece. It's kinda lovely but being fat pits you in the bad person box pretty quickly and you have to work overtime to be on the same social level as someone thin.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:It's the results, because she works on the media and immediately started getting jobs after not changing anything but her weight. It was a good, honest piece. It's kinda lovely but being fat pits you in the bad person box pretty quickly and you have to work overtime to be on the same social level as someone thin. Certainly people do treat you differently if you're not 100+ lbs overweight (I have not ever received free meat at the deli counter however), but I also think that there are massive improvements in self-confidence and mood that affect your personality and demeanor when you're in shape that Elna doesn't comment on at all. There were some very thick rose-tinted glasses. And sort of cornering her husband about how he wouldn't have fallen in love with her were she 100+ lbs overweight was kind of lovely. I wonder if she thinks she would have fallen in love with him were the situation reversed? When his personality would have likely been completely different along with his physical appearance and capabilities? I also didn't really believe that Lindy West "trained" herself to believe that being immensely overweight was beautiful by looking at tumblr blogs when later in the episode she's married to a normal weight dude who gets hit on by women in bars. I enjoyed the episode anyway for the stories, Oral Roberts University and Elna Baker's stories were good, but there are some clear issues with it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:27
|
|
|
Elna has to live her life, I think she was remarkably open and honest with what she shared. Hell, I don't know anyone who isn't trapped behind a few choices that people would get all judgy about if they heard their story. I got my feelings about relying on a thinness/productivity drug to support your new and improved life, but I don't feel comfortable looking down on her about it either. Very ambivalent feelings about that story, but it really took guts to tell it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
AngryBooch posted:Certainly people do treat you differently if you're not 100+ lbs overweight (I have not ever received free meat at the deli counter however), but I also think that there are massive improvements in self-confidence and mood that affect your personality and demeanor when you're in shape that Elna doesn't comment on at all. There were some very thick rose-tinted glasses. And sort of cornering her husband about how he wouldn't have fallen in love with her were she 100+ lbs overweight was kind of lovely. I wonder if she thinks she would have fallen in love with him were the situation reversed? When his personality would have likely been completely different along with his physical appearance and capabilities? Yeah the cornering the husband was a no win situation. She really opened Pandora's box with that one. And Lindy West's suggestion of convincing yourself made me roll my eyes a bit. However, I do think that if you love someone, you CAN see them as the standard of beauty FOR YOU. And maybe that's what she failed to explain.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
doctorfrog posted:Elna has to live her life, I think she was remarkably open and honest with what she shared. I really appreciated what she had to say, I think it was crystal clear to her and the audience that she was going to take the drugs and do absolutely whatever it took to stay thin, and that she arrived at the conclusion that she might as well actually say that, out loud, instead of just pretending her obsession with thinness was over and letting the audience walk away with the impression that now she's a beautiful butterfly who will stay that way forever and ever, effortlessly. EDIT: I also enjoyed how it subverted the whole "thinness" = health argument, given that she's literally taking speed to stay thin and won't even Google the medication side effects in part because of how that argument is a part of society's complex about appearance and moral judgement. Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Yeah the cornering the husband was a no win situation. She really opened Pandora's box with that one. This is just my opinion, but the husband didn't have to come out and say, "if you were fat I wouldn't have started dating and gotten married to you". She definitely lobbed a grenade that should have been defused or at least examined before the marriage, but I can't help but feel like he pulled the pin. But then we come to the greater question of just how honest someone should be in a relationship when it comes to communicating about harsh truths, and answering that is way above my pay grade. I kind of felt like she knew she was asking for the impossible, though, and that the bigger problem was that she felt like her husband wasn't really listening to her and understanding her feelings, which is understandable given that he was claiming that the Thin Elna was the reeeeeeal Elna. All interesting, moderately disturbing stuff that make me happy to tune in to TAL. Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jun 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
Yeah, just to be clear, the only section that made me outright angry was the Lindy West part. I honestly expected Ira to politely ask the kind of followup questions they ask when they're dealing with people who have crazy beliefs. Aside from the part where she talks about breaking chairs and knocking things over, the other part that got me was when she protesting against medical facts (and in fairness, using it as an excuse to bully people is lovely) - and said "they're judging people for the diabetes they don't have yet." Yet. She actually said that. The Elna story was way more interesting, but yeah, the part where she's crying at her husband was kind of ridiculous. "Oh my god, If I looked different and unattractive to you, we wouldn't have founded a relationship based on initial mutual attraction at all!" is a bit of a weak realisation, just like y'all said. The part where she talked about different ethnicities noticing her as she lost weight was legit hilarious though. (By the way, did Elna do another story with TAL in the last year or so? I've definitely heard her before, but I can't remember from what story.) I also thought it was curious that they pretty much spoke exclusively to women about being fat. Honestly, my biggest takeaway from the episode wasn't about fat acceptance or fat bullying, but about how much society makes women draw their self worth from their physical attributes. Like the old thing of how the words "you're beautiful inside" still puts inordinate importance on beauty...
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
By the way, the one argument that might stand in favor of being able to rewire your thinking to find fat objectively beautiful was that point about blacks and then latinos finding Elna attractive. I have a feeling that the black dudes loving fat white women is actually a function of black dudes being undesired by white women and thus these two groups meet in the middle and so then that becomes what they like. I'm not prepared to fight for this one too hard really, but its a thought.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 00:49
|
|
|
That actually makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure it's way more complicated than that though. Also, I really don't get why people have problems with Lindy West's parts. I don't think there's any fat person who doesn't know the health risks, pointing them out to them accomplishes nothing except making you feel smugly superior. Not accusing anyone of doing this, just saying that it's a thing people do.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 02:55
|
|
|
watho posted:That actually makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure it's way more complicated than that though. So then how do we talk about the obesity epidemic in a way that won't hurt fat peoples feelings and doesn't make people that take it seriously not sound smugly superior? Do we bury our heads in the sand and post more #bodypositive instagram posts? We can break a stigma, and maybe get people to treat fat people better, but we can't just ignore the heath risks like everyone in this episode willingly and happily did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
Why can't we do that?
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
I'm almost hesitant to criticize this episode because there's so many nasty people on the internet that hate on fat people in a really gross way that I don't even want people to think that I'm a part of that in even the tiniest way. But I thought the Lindy West part was just too cute (a common TAL criticism I have), like if you just own that poo poo it's ok. To me that puts too much of the responsibility on the overweight person, as if they need to find the "courage" to "come out" as themselves in order to be treated with respect. I like any story about people gaining more self-esteem but her story seemed a little backward to me. Dan Savage is a bit of a dick though, and I wish he would have discussed it publicly. I like his column and he was sweet on Michael Ian Black's podcast last week, but he definitely sniffs his own farts and needs to come off his high horse when an employee feels hurt and attacked in the workplace. That is some leadership 101 stuff, and like a poster above mentioned it felt like they gave him a pass because he's a fellow quasi-alternative journalist. The best segment IMO was Roxanne Gay talking about being fat and black because that really hurt to listen to. I'm a tall, fit, white man so hearing someone speak about being treated like garbage in every interaction (even before speaking to the other party) makes me remember that ~privilege~ is real even though a lot of the internet refuses to admit that. I would have liked an hour of that rather than some of the feel-good totally-not-advertisements for Lindy West's book. The way they framed everything gave the impression that the other stories we're offshoot interpretations of West's ideas, for example book-ending the episode with excerpts from her work. IMO it was actually three ways of thinking simplified and generally presented as one. ps - I think that Elnas convo w her boyfriend was weird, but tbh i think if i told my girlfriend that we were recording for a nationally syndicated program we'd be brainstorming ideas on how to make it compelling, including asking "the tough questions" that normally wouldnt come up. life is a joke fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 06:38
|
|
|
I don't remember if they mentioned food deserts, but I don't think they did and I'm surprised, since I think that's actually a big reason why minorities, especially black and latino/a people have a disproportionate obesity problem, especially combined with lovely education and being forced to be a latchkey kid cuz your mom's and dad got three jobs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 07:29
|
|
|
watho posted:That actually makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure it's way more complicated than that though. watho posted:Why can't we do that? life is a joke posted:I'm almost hesitant to criticize this episode because there's so many nasty people on the internet that hate on fat people in a really gross way that I don't even want people to think that I'm a part of that in even the tiniest way. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 10:08
|
|
|
I wonder if this one will get more vitriolic feedback than the episode where lindy West, at east I think it was her, confronted her troll for laughing about her dead dad
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:I don't remember if they mentioned food deserts, but I don't think they did and I'm surprised, since I think that's actually a big reason why minorities, especially black and latino/a people have a disproportionate obesity problem, especially combined with lovely education and being forced to be a latchkey kid cuz your mom's and dad got three jobs. I swear it came up in this thread already, but further studies showed that it's not really something that actually has an effect. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
I haven't listened to the episode yet, but it can be extraordinarily hard to lose a lot of weight and keep it off. Our bodies don't want to do it. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 16:06
|
|
Tater Love 
|
zakharov posted:I haven't listened to the episode yet, but it can be extraordinarily hard to lose a lot of weight and keep it off. Our bodies don't want to do it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/05/why-the-weight-loss-study-everyone-has-been-sharing-is-kind-of-misleading/ Metabolic penalties of losing weight gradually decline and eventually disappear if you're able to maintain weight loss.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:13
|
|
|
Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:I wonder if this one will get more vitriolic feedback than the episode where lindy West, at east I think it was her, confronted her troll for laughing about her dead dad Oh poo poo, I remember that, that story was the fakest goddamn thing I've ever heard. I didn't realize it was the same lady
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 01:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
Lindy West is a crazy lady who think you can be morbidly obese and healthy, and "the government is waging a war on fat people", I'm not really happy about This American life giving her a platform
boom boom boom fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jun 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 01:45
|
|