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Come to think of it, didnt the creators of the original battletech never give sizes for their mechs? Only weight?
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Jun 22, 2016 14:54
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The original battlemechs were pieces of identically sized cardboard stuck to identical bases yes. In the meantime let us marvel at the effort by  to make a ton of lead look the same as a ton of feathers.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:10
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Come to think of it, didnt the creators of the original battletech never give sizes for their mechs? Only weight? The TROs had a basic graph that showed sizes. The average height was 10 meters tall with some bigger and some smaller than others.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:13
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Kinda mind boggling if you look at all that spergatronic information on http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Catapult and yet theres no mention of the things height, but we get detailed background information about the manufacturer of the comms array.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:27
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Well yeah, the height was irrelevant. All that mattered were the hex pieces for the boardgame. Since that's all battletech ever was. I don't know why suddenly thinks surface volume is their bible but gently caress it, whatever. Done now.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:37
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here's like an old-school size comparison but even with all that it shouldn't matter, we're balancing for a game in which weapons have perfect convergence and most people can hit what they want, not a tabletop game where the hit table is all random and even the best pilots miss a lot
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Jun 22, 2016 15:44
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Pattonesque posted:but even with all that it shouldn't matter, we're balancing for a game in which weapons have perfect convergence and most people can hit what they want, not a tabletop game where the hit table is all random and even the best pilots miss a lot Not that the tabletop game was anything approaching balanced anyway.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:46
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 Frozen City
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Jun 22, 2016 15:57
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Cease to Hope posted:Not that the tabletop game was anything approaching balanced anyway. If you go by the basic rule set it was pretty OK in that regard. Even 3050 IS stuff was OK. Clams were OP as gently caress but everyone I played with used them as super powerful antagonists for the PCs to overcome. The one clan game we did the GM made sure we were outnumbered at least 2 : 1 in tonnage. But if you were just ducking around with the 3025 tech it was pretty well done. Edit: assuming you used the games mechs. Construct your own and yeah you could break game mechanics pretty bad but I don't think any game system is safe from min maxing nerds.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:12
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Pattonesque posted:here's like an old-school size comparison J. Edgar (light) Hover Tank? Hetzer Tank? Rommel Tank? (Panzer)Schre(c)k Tank? You made those up, right?
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Jun 22, 2016 16:12
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you go by the basic rule set it was pretty OK in that regard. Even 3050 IS stuff was OK. Clams were OP as gently caress but everyone I played with used them as super powerful antagonists for the PCs to overcome. The one clan game we did the GM made sure we were outnumbered at least 2 : 1 in tonnage. I legit don't think I've ever played as a Clan mech in TT or megamek. Cannibalized their tech for my own mech? Deffo, yeah. Mixed tech is loving awesome, but like you said we've always just used them as antagonists when not playing 3025 or Star League games.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:19
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Come to think of it, didnt the creators of the original battletech never give sizes for their mechs? Only weight? They did not. All `Mechs are roughly 10 meters tall--and that's where the distinction ends. `Mechs are mostly empty air, so assessing their weight by comparing their internal volumes is retarded.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:23
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Skoll posted:I legit don't think I've ever played as a Clan mech in TT or megamek. Cannibalized their tech for my own mech? Deffo, yeah. Mixed tech is loving awesome, but like you said we've always just used them as antagonists when not playing 3025 or Star League games. You are officially a Good BT Player. Everyone I ever met who wanted to play clans was an insufferable twat who just wanted to act out their power fantasies. When nerds who role play being future nobility piloting fusion powered giant robots accuse you of this you know you have problems.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:If you go by the basic rule set it was pretty OK in that regard. Even 3050 IS stuff was OK. I respectfully submit every single 3025 mech with an AC5 or AC2 as a counterargument. This isn't the tabletop Battletech thread, though, and I probably should not have brought it up. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 16:49
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They both became a lot more useful if you played on maps bigger than the single sheet
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Jun 22, 2016 17:11
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Yolomon Wayne posted:J. Edgar (light) Hover Tank? Well, someone did. Someone at FASA.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:55
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Well refunding my Phoenixhawk was surprisingly easy. I requested it yesterday afternoon, got an email about an hour ago asking to confirm. Got this in response  GM Patience (Piranha Games) Jun 22, 10:48 PDT Hi, Apologies for the frustrations with the new Mini Map. We are absolutely heeding all of the feedback we are receiving, and will be making adjustments to the Mini Map in a hot fix currently planned for this week. While it will not be a full roll-back to the original Mini Map, we intend for this hot-fix to address some aspects of the Mini Map that we have received the most feedback about. Future patches will then continue to refine and the improve the Mini Map as needed, based on the feedback from the community. Please let me know, or update this ticket later in the week, to provide me with final confirmation as to whether you wish to proceed with the Phoenix hawk (only available if not redeemed) refund. Please find more information here: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/231305-regarding-the-new-mini-map/ GM_Patience Piranha Games To which I replied and autocorrect did something kind of funny. veedubfreak Jun 22, 10:58 PDT I do wish to refund. It's mostly that I don't feel the mechanism is worth it. The other changes are a moot point. Autocorrect, making new and interesting choices every day.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:25
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Well gently caress me, did all the quick play and scouting bags and no mechbay. Also the new Frozen City should be called Alpine City and then be tossed into a volcano. My experience with it so far has been that it always devolves into a 500-700m standoff.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:They both became a lot more useful if you played on maps bigger than the single sheet There is not a map size where small ACs are better than LRMs in tabletop Battletech. (LRMs even have a longer range than AC5s!) The weapon balance problems become even more obvious with Star League tech, especially gauss rifles, double heat sinks, and to a lesser extent ERLLs. This thinking is the same way that MWO ended up starting from a bad base to begin with. Battletech was never a balanced game, but it was a well-liked game, and people mistake that for well-balanced. PGI started from the idea that BT was itself balanced, and that poor balance is the broken foundation MWO rests on to this day.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:07
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Edit: never mind
Surprise Giraffe fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 21:18
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Cease to Hope posted:There is not a map size where small ACs are better than LRMs in tabletop Battletech. (LRMs even have a longer range than AC5s!) The weapon balance problems become even more obvious with Star League tech, especially gauss rifles, double heat sinks, and to a lesser extent ERLLs. You put way more thought into this than ever did.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:22
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DancingShade posted:At the end of the day I can probably live perfectly well with the rescaling but the mechs themselves will need to be re-quirked, etc to adjust. Brawlers do die quite decently and it's mounts aren't that great for sniping but it can do both. DancingShade posted:Basically you should all be piloting assaults and mediums because lol if you took a heavy or light after everything got supersized. Pfft, My Timberwolves and Warhammers are just as good as ever 
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Jun 22, 2016 23:16
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Pattonesque posted:Left: 35 ton mech That image is deceptive as hell though. Did no one think "I wonder why these mechs' pictures have been taken at an extreme side angle instead of a normal frontal angle?" The answer is because then the image isn't shocking and sensational because the Nova is still two and a half times as wide as the Jenner (while the Jenner is 70% of its weight) and as superstar mechs like the Awesome repeatedly show, having a wide profile in MWO is very good for survivability.
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Jun 23, 2016 00:00
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The Rescale overall hasn't been nearly as big an issue as the minimap. Jenners are about the size of Cicada's now (although more compact) and aside from a few notable examples (Wolfhounds, Firestarters, Grasshoppers for example) everything is kinda the same. When shooting at stuff I haven't really been noticing any 'oh man they really made out like a bandit' on the size, aside from Locusts being able to waterhax even more now.
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Jun 23, 2016 00:05
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EponymousMrYar posted:. When shooting at stuff I haven't really been noticing any 'oh man they really made out like a bandit' on the size, aside from Locusts being able to waterhax even more now. Catapults are basically the size of an old cicadia now. THey are insane little harassers that have the tonnage to do some ugly poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:10
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Their ears are still giant targets and they have to close to do really mean stuff to you. It's easy to take off half to a quarter of their firepower unless they're gauss/ppc k2's.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:15
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So far I haven't really noticed much other than the tiny cats and most lights being possible to hit now. Black Widow is still good for 1000+ and not dying until you're stripped bare.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:26
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aniviron posted:That image is deceptive as hell though. Did no one think "I wonder why these mechs' pictures have been taken at an extreme side angle instead of a normal frontal angle?" Also the jenner has guns above the cockpit, while the nova still knuckledrags every single one of its weapons.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:33
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A.o.D. posted:Also the jenner has guns above the cockpit, while the nova still knuckledrags every single one of its weapons. And the Nova is stuck with no endo, no ferro, and five locked jumpjets, and a whole bunch of other problems. They're still not exactly top poo poo, but they're very playable right now. I'm sure PGI is going to gently caress it up next patch though, can't have any playable clan mechs except SCR/TBR/HBR/EBJ, that would be crazy. EDIT: Oh yeah, about the Catapults: the size of the model is based on the size with the default weapon loadouts, i.e. the CPLT is calculated using the huge square boxes that the C1/C4 have. The tiny little nub arms that the Jester/K2 have means those two are significantly undersized for their tonnage.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:56
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http://mwomercs.com/news/2016/06/1583-hotfix-scheduled-for-06222016 Hotfix tonight, minimap fixes ahoy!
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Jun 23, 2016 02:01
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Swiller of Beer posted:http://mwomercs.com/news/2016/06/1583-hotfix-scheduled-for-06222016 The hotfix has already been delayed.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:16
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I wonder what happens when they push a patch and then an unpaid intern is tasked with interrupting the Paul/Russ j/o session to tell them people are super mad and also refunding the new mech pack because it's bad, also the rescale is bad.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:25
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Mech Commander gave the scale from 8 meters tall (Commando) up to 16 meters tall (Atlas) and I felt those numbers were nice.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:31
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Random Number posted:I wonder what happens when they push a patch and then an unpaid intern is tasked with interrupting the Paul/Russ j/o session to tell them people are super mad and also refunding the new mech pack because it's bad, also the rescale is bad. Oh please. You know this was presented to him as: "Everything's great, people love the Penis Henvy and the new map but we've noticed a bug with the minimap and think we should get a bugfix out to patch it ASAP before anyone notices."
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Jun 23, 2016 02:32
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But only a little bit, apparently. They just pushed an update.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:48
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Random Number posted:I wonder what happens when they push a patch and then an unpaid intern is tasked with interrupting the Paul/Russ j/o session to tell them people are super mad and also refunding the new mech pack because it's bad, also the rescale is bad. All praise be to Veedub?!? e: 
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Jun 23, 2016 03:33
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Minimap is useable again.
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Jun 23, 2016 03:34
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Usable but still worse. The help pings and weight classes aren't as useful as knowing which way enemies and teammates are facing was.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:30
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Oh my they moved the ballistic slots on the K2 to be at cockpit height, I might have to try out dual gauss again for the first time in ages.
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Jun 23, 2016 05:03
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Cease to Hope posted:Usable but still worse. The help pings and weight classes aren't as useful as knowing which way enemies and teammates are facing was. Yeah, it's improved but knowing where enemies were facing was great for peeking out and taking shots on people. I miss it.
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Jun 23, 2016 06:54
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