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Generic Octopus posted:Dude do you seriously not see anything wrong with someone coming into a game and being like, "o cool armor, how do I get it?" and the response being "well first find a consistent group of 9 other people and then religiously clear every raid every week for 4 months." I know that most goons are on the casual end of the MMO player spectrum but raids aren't this insurmountable task. You don't even need a consistent group, after my last guild imploded I spent a month doing weekly pug raids, and I always had all my bosses done by Tuesday night (some of the groups didn't even have the easily-faked LI requirement). Seeing how the skins aren't even out yet (and if the precursors are any kind of indicator will be lame anyway), is the outrage just over how it's the only legendary armor in the game? Because I can't imagine that not being able to switch stats on your armor on the fly while not switching runes is really that detrimental to your game experience.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:48
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It's so simple, you're right. I've been looking at this wrong the whole time, there's actually no reason why I can't raid regularly! Thanks man.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:53
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tyblazitar posted:Sure sure, it's a 4-month timegate starting now, because we suddenly have information that makes all goons want to craft legendary armor. If you had started getting into raids earlier and gotten into a decent group you could do full clears in 90 minutes every week, and slowly but surely saved up the insights that we knew were going to be needed. I guess it's easier to just decry raids as some grognard tryhard game mode that is bad anyway, and then act all outraged when they decide to give rewards for doing them. Even if you started today and full cleared every week you'd probably get to 150 before the armor is actually available knowing Anet's release history. Based on the release schedule, 150 Legendary Insights was only obtainable this week (3 per week since November for 16 weeks, 6 per week since March for 14 weeks, 9 per week since June for 2 weeks). So if you actually started from the beginning and was in one of the best guilds in the world this was still a nine month timegate. If you started today there is little chance that you actually full clear every week. Say we start with your suggestion of 90 minutes per clear, or lets say 150 minutes for all 3 wings any week, and that is all you want to raid any given week. And you have found a group of 9 like-minded people in the same situation. Well unfortunately it takes about 5 hours to get comfortable enough with any given boss fight to get to that point, and this is a very generous estimate. So the ramp up time is 1 new boss downed each 2 weeks, starting with 0. In the first 18 weeks you'd have 81 Insights, and be done in 26 weeks (6 months), spending 3900 game minutes (65 hours). Raids are rewarding enough as is, but the 150 requirement shows a gross miscalculation of time and effort that players actually need to get there by ANet and players like you who have no idea.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:54
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I don't really think its about doing the raid, its the sheer amount of things needed that are time gated which people are taking issue with.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:56
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Unless the armor is a set of flaming trucknutz it's not worth it.
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Jun 22, 2016 23:03
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tyblazitar posted:If you took a person completely new to the game and explained everything that's needed to make legendary weapons, or just a full set of ascended gear, that would probably seem pretty overwhelming too. Also when I start a new MMO I don't expect to be able to get everything I want in a few weeks but maybe I'm just masochistic for thinking it's OK to have long-term goals that aren't for everyone. I really don't give two shits about the armor, I have no intention of going for it. I have no weapons because I don't like any of them that much. I don't have Ad Infinitum because who cares. I've crafted 2 sets of ascended (just finished heavy, did medium preHoT when it was cheaper and I played thief), 2 daggers, 2 swords, and a shortbow (did the collection for Bo and had a weapon box drop and grabbed a hammer). That all took a couple weeks per character, playing casually (basically doing dailies & occasional metas); could've been done much sooner if I bothered or threw real money at it (lol). I don't have a problem with having things to work toward; I'm criticizing the design choices of "this is the minimum real-time investment needed for thing" and "you must do this specific set of things repeatedly & religiously for months". But also, yea, if there's a (one) thing I want in a game and it takes literal months to acquire, I find that kinda stupid because no, I don't really care enough about anything in any dumb game that much. Honestly it's sorta weird to me that there's this bizarre work-ethic morality at play for acquiring poo poo in MMOs. Like taking literal months to craft Daedric gear would somehow add value to Skyrim.
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Jun 22, 2016 23:14
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Generic Octopus posted:Honestly it's sorta weird to me that there's this bizarre work-ethic morality at play for acquiring poo poo in MMOs. In fairness this isn't unique to GW2, it's been around in MMOs for a while. It's this really weird and hosed up thing that some people believe and follow, that somehow MMO play requires and demands actual levels of responsibility or work ethic and that somehow is related to someone's IRL equivalent things. It goes beyond a videogame to those people, and they prioritize it over real things. There's gotta be some kind of study or research done showing how hosed up people who actually subscribe to that level of bullshit.
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Jun 22, 2016 23:17
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this is literally more grindy than poo poo in other games that actually have a monthly subscription
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Jun 22, 2016 23:17
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AnacondaHL posted:Based on the release schedule, 150 Legendary Insights was only obtainable this week (3 per week since November for 16 weeks, 6 per week since March for 14 weeks, 9 per week since June for 2 weeks). So if you actually started from the beginning and was in one of the best guilds in the world this was still a nine month timegate. First of all, clearing all bosses every week does not mean you're in one of the best guilds in the world, there was a goon who admitted to having enough LIs already earlier in the thread. I'd have enough too if I didn't take a few breaks from the game (at 114 currently), and I've been either in no guild or in noname guilds. Second, you all know that the armor isn't out yet and probably won't be for a while? You don't need 150 today, but if you did some raiding before this week then that helps you shorten the 4 month timegate. Third, 90 minutes was meant for all three wings, not one, although that's obviously after you get comfortable with the raid. And fair enough, you might not get your kills instantly, but you also don't need to go in blind with 9 other complete beginners. There are guilds and groups devoted to teaching raids, and once you start getting the hang of raiding in general it'll be easier to pick up on the next bosses. I think 5 hours is a decent estimate if your entire group is new to raiding and most of them haven't even read any type of guide, but with the current plethora of resources and information, as well as many skills being directly transferable to other encounters, I think for most groups it's far too pessimistic. My guild sometimes takes people who haven't done a boss if we need a 10th, give them a good explanation in advance and then kill it within a few tries no problem, those people then have a pretty good understanding of the boss and can go on to either join pugs or do it with other friends. You're of course free to think that it's a gross miscalculation, but the same has been said of literally any high-prestige item in the game. Remember the uproar about needing to salvage ascended gear to get the fractal backpack? Turns out, Anet intended for legendary items to require a certain amount of dedication to get, and despite a bunch of people getting upset because they're not willing to do that but still desperately want the item, I doubt they'll budge on this one. Finally, like someone mentioned earlier, you can work on one piece at a time, so even if it'll take you many months to get the full set, you'll still get there piece by piece, 25 LIs at a time. felch me daddy jr. fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 23:30
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What does legendary armor even do beside have a unique skin? Change stats?
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Jun 22, 2016 23:50
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P. Much, like gamin has said, it's fairly useless unless you can freely swap out rune stats too. I'm salty that it's basically the only new armor skin since hot. I don't care for the stats, I just want more poo poo to pretty princess with.
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Jun 23, 2016 00:12
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This game has been a 3 year timegate.
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Jun 23, 2016 00:22
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treizebee posted:This game has been a 3 year timegate. Oh my god I've been playing this crap for almost 4 years.
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Jun 23, 2016 00:37
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CLAM DOWN posted:Oh my god I've been playing this crap for almost 4 years. poo poo, has it been that long? My hands... these are the hands of an old man. Who... where... when am I?
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Jun 23, 2016 01:37
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Jun 23, 2016 01:40
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.......... that's 2 years 2 loving straight years of guild wars 2
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Jun 23, 2016 01:42
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Baron Von Pigeon posted:Man I loved that episode "IN THE MIDDLE OF MY BACKSWING?!" There are many good episodes of SG-1, this one's gotta be top 5.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:46
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CLAM DOWN posted:.......... Out of 3 years. Averaging ~16 hours of gw2 per day.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:52
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Explains a lot.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:08
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Instead of bickering, it's happy story time! I was figuring out how to do the Dark Harvest collection and what Draithor the Drill is and where to go to kill him, and found this wonderful story. Long story short, several years ago ArenaNet did a Make-A-Wish for a girl who had a potentially fatal heart disease and needed a heart transplant. She went on a trip to the ArenaNet headquarters to see GW2 before it was released, and while there they asked her to help them design an event, which wound up being the "Help Aria Venom slay Draithor the Drill" in Kessex Hills. She loved Necromancers and had long used Aria Venom as a character name, so they used her character name as the name for the good Necromancer there. Also, she named the crew of merchants that you're supposed to rescue during the event. She named them the Black Lion Trading Company. And years later, the collection for the Reaper Specialization Weapon includes having to go complete the event with Aria Venom, and I will fight anyone who says that it isn't an intentional nod to her and her trip to the ArenaNet headquarters. Also, she got the heart transplant she needed and is alive and well, 7 years later 
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Jun 23, 2016 03:19
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There's also a nice memorial to someone that's surrounded by animals but I don't recall off hand the story surrounding it.
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Jun 23, 2016 03:32
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I am absolutely 1000% not trying to be a dick,but according to Malcom Gladwell, that's almost enough time to master two pursuits. Now I'm thinking about how long I've spent on MMOs...
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Jun 23, 2016 03:42
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Well I do have 2 culinary degrees and I'm going into nursing soon.
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Jun 23, 2016 03:46
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There's nothing wrong with playing a shitload of video games if you don't let it take over and ruin your non-gaming life.
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Jun 23, 2016 03:50
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Magres posted:There's nothing wrong with playing a shitload of video games if you don't let it take over and ruin your non-gaming life. I'm pretty sure spending literally two-thirds of your life in a video game has some kind of impact.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:25
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Magres posted:There's nothing wrong with playing a shitload of video games if you don't let it take over and ruin your non-gaming life. Yep, for sure, just surprised and wowed is all.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:35
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No not for sure, holy drat. 17,500+ hours, over 2 years, there absolutely is something wrong with that oh my god how does anything that is okay.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:40
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 live and let live bruh
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Jun 23, 2016 04:45
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CLAM DOWN posted:No not for sure, holy drat. 17,500+ hours, over 2 years, there absolutely is something wrong with that oh my god how does anything that is okay. Small correction/clarification/recap: 17,560 hours is 2 years. 2 years out of 3 were spent logged into gw2. Meaning that, assuming an even distribution, ~16 hours of every day were logged into gw2. Even if you shuffled it so you spent literally all 48 hours of the weekend in gw2, that's ~13 hours on every other day.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:55
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Oh my god I just realized sfd euro raid has been raiding since like January and still can't beat gorse regularly. Welp I just made myself a whole lot sadder
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Jun 23, 2016 06:40
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Xun posted:Oh my god I just realized sfd euro raid has been raiding since like January and still can't beat gorse regularly. Welp I just made myself a whole lot sadder method: 1. stack necros 2. more necros 3. one necro epidemic gorseval when little ghosts spawn 4. other necros epidemic that ghost 6. when fat ghosts spawn let them get almost to gorseval, ranger entangle all 4 of them, burn one, all necros epidemic it 7. repeat at 33% 8. wow you just did no updraft gorseval
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Jun 23, 2016 07:07
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Judge not lest ye be judged. So what he has no life? At least he isn't murdering people.
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Jun 23, 2016 07:07
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Generic Octopus posted:Small correction/clarification/recap: 17,560 hours is 2 years. 2 years out of 3 were spent logged into gw2. Meaning that, assuming an even distribution, ~16 hours of every day were logged into gw2. Even if you shuffled it so you spent literally all 48 hours of the weekend in gw2, that's ~13 hours on every other day. Well the funny thing about caring for terminally ill relatives is that you don't actually have to do a lot, so you have a lot of free time on your hands. 
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Jun 23, 2016 07:10
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Make with the pictures Xnthru.
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Jun 23, 2016 07:24
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But yea srsly I suspect my experience with euro-raid might represent the average causal players experience in trying to beat raids. Even if you have a causal group where half of the members are able to show up every single week to practice and the others rotate in/out, getting to beating all 3 wings in 90 minutes is going to take forever. And that's with two of the regulars being part of the "can beat raids fast" group. Idk why anet has put so much effort into something that very, very few people are going to obtain. First you gotta find raiders who can beat all the wings for the precursors and then narrow it down to whoever feels like spending the time and money to do the rest. gently caress I think even super hardcore WoW raids just have the neat things drop.
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Jun 23, 2016 07:39
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What Anet should do is make a simpler version of the raid, remove enrage timers, lower overall boss health BUT, you keep the mechanics in place, this allows people to learn the raid in a more controlled environment, you take the rewards you give now and leave as is, then for the people doing the raid as it is, you double or triple them, that way even if you're doing the easy mode raid you're still getting stuff and working toward something and those doing it the hard way get more rewards for the time they've put in. Eventually those doing the easy mode raid will most likely be able to jump into the hard one and reap the rewards themselves.
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Jun 23, 2016 07:43
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I like hard content that takes thinking and skill and sadly MMOs haven't learned how to make that accessible without tying you to a strict video game job of collective failure and dull life-grinding miseryXun posted:But yea srsly I suspect my experience with euro-raid might represent the average causal players experience in trying to beat raids. Even if you have a causal group where half of the members are able to show up every single week to practice and the others rotate in/out, getting to beating all 3 wings in 90 minutes is going to take forever. And that's with two of the regulars being part of the "can beat raids fast" group. Idk why anet has put so much effort into something that very, very few people are going to obtain. First you gotta find raiders who can beat all the wings for the precursors and then narrow it down to whoever feels like spending the time and money to do the rest. gently caress I think even super hardcore WoW raids just have the neat things drop. wow raids are tuned to all participants being up to speed with one piece of legendary gear that is worth literally 30% of your damage contribution each individual step to construct that legendary piece of uber gear takes several months this poo poo kills game communities dead when it actually matters for video game numbers Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 07:56
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Alteisen posted:What Anet should do is make a simpler version of the raid, remove enrage timers, lower overall boss health BUT, you keep the mechanics in place, this allows people to learn the raid in a more controlled environment, you take the rewards you give now and leave as is, then for the people doing the raid as it is, you double or triple them, that way even if you're doing the easy mode raid you're still getting stuff and working toward something and those doing it the hard way get more rewards for the time they've put in. yeah literally just removing enrage timers would make the bosses a much easier experience. you'd still have some bosses where time is a factor like gorseval's updrafts and sabetha's cannons, but it would remove a lot of pressure and make for a great easy mode without removing the INTEGRITY OF MY RAIDING EXPERIENCE
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Jun 23, 2016 08:33
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I think I've spent an accumulated seven hours on the first raid boss and I've not killed it once. I don't know what kind of time investment you're expected to have in raids, but spending several hours and getting jack poo poo isn't exactly fun.
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Jun 23, 2016 08:40
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raids are hard 
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Jun 23, 2016 08:52
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