|
I can't even find time to do fractals. I probably could now that it's one at a time. Hell, I even have some dungeon story modes undone. I've basically played GW2 as a single player game where you can chat with other people. Only explorable dungeons I've ran is Twilight Arbor (because I wanted some armor pieces), Catacombs (because it was easy) and Citadel (because everyone did it). I remember I hated the skipping/running stuff because I'm bad and get caught and die and everyone got mad at me.
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 09:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 04:23 |
|
|
Azazell0 posted:I can't even find time to do fractals. I probably could now that it's one at a time. buddy i sympathise with your time plight, so i am going to list the fractals and how long they take
for a cool info dump on fractals http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists should list a bunch of poo poo you don't really need to read, except it has agony requirements for certain levels so that's a good place to start. i strongly recommend condi necro for high level fractals - the combination of two health bars and 50% damage reduction on "Rise!" completely counters the increased damage of higher scales, along with conditions ignoring the heavily scaled toughness reducing power-based damage to the point where i will straight drop from any group where i'm the only condi, along with epidemic, makes it the #1 fractal class for 76+.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 09:34
|
|
|
People with MMO Stockholm syndrome will never not be funny to me. This isn't so bad guys honestly, you don't need the [reward] out of [specific content with low accessibility] for [the casual content you worthless scrub are usually doing], and if you want it just [do specific content with low accessibility], it's easy! I greatly enjoyed hard mode raids in WoW/WotLK with 24 other people but people in groups like that often ignore that getting "in" and "just raid" is much harder than having a core group of people with similar skill and dedication to call on. I see the same thing in FF14 and... yeah, see the first paragraph.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 10:31
|
|
|
Euro raid is at most 2ish hours a week with 4 regular people, then whoever wants to turn up who may or may not have experience. Euro can beat vg and gorse every time and have almost done slothy, can probably ad wing 3 boss 1 to that since its trash. We still have fun or we wouldn't do it The NA raid(s) have 10 in a stable group who did time investment wise (atleast launch week for wing 3) in one week the amount Euro raid does in 2 months and can do everything. Apart from new release they also raid 2 hours a week when all the bosses have been figured out. There's your difference between a casual and sperglord group, finding a time that people can go, everything else is secondary. Also agree with orcane. I hated world completion and haven't touched that part of the game since 2012, no legendaries for me. There's a bunch of other poo poo to do aka steam sale and wub wub It is a shame colins retarded planning meant nothing but raids for a billion years but hopefully that comes to an end with the new director and ls3 next month. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 10:42
|
|
|
Speaking of new content, xushin is adamant that the expansion is coming out in September I asked him if that meant Guardian would be getting warhorn and he said nothing so cantha confirmed. Some of you might have heard about his weird legendary selling scheme he has going, a few people in SFD did it and got their gold so apparently it isn't a scam if you want to earn gold for your world completions/karma/dungeon tokens just mention something in gchat or whisper me. EDIT: no one died falling off the thing last night congrats http://i.imgur.com/0rC62GY.jpg Reclines Obesily fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 10:46
|
|
|
Last night was good fun. I've been missing this part of the game. (the part where I interact with you lovely Also yeah talking of raid, last time I raided with eu we beat VG with a man down and me with the wrong chronomancer build so...
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 12:37
|
|
|
I think an issue with raiding is not only is it the most difficult pve but there isn't really anything like it to get you started. FFXIV has a fairly good system where you are required to do the easy dungeons/raids/trials before you can unlock the harder ones. There are of course still plenty of dead weight players who barely qualify as warm bodies in the big 8 person fights, but for the most part everyone has some general idea of how group combat is supposed to work. The closest GW2 has to that is high level fractals and that is a different beast entirely. Beyond that this game doesn't have any challenging pve content. Dungeons were already a joke before the tremendous power creep of the specialization system that gave us 3 full trait lines and elite specs. Heart of Thorns open world stuff is 95% about having commanders to herd people around. I don't think anet or anyone else should be surprised at how few people are jumping into raids when the general feel of the game goes from "just do whatever" to needing good gear and consumables and a good build and you need to know what you're doing you can't just hit buttons as they come off cooldown and you need to know fairly complicated boss fight mechanics before hand and unless you like wasting time you should probably find 9 other people who are also into doing this and form a schedule because even a fast clear is a large time commitment compared to the rest of the game. There's nothing bridging the gap you just have to want to commit to doing something radically different and harder. Forsaken Thicket is cool and fun and the boss fights are actually pretty well designed but it feels like a waste in GW2 because it is so out of place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 12:40
|
|
|
Thunderbro posted:I like hard content that takes thinking and skill and sadly MMOs haven't learned how to make that accessible without tying you to a strict video game job of collective failure and dull life-grinding misery Raiding has always been about challenging yourself, at least to me. Drops are inconsequential, I'd go for it even if there was no reward other than the sense of satisfaction. Gear treadmills have always been a lovely, poorly masked, attempt by developers to buy time to create more content. I feel like it sticks around more out of inertia than anything at this point. Thunderbro posted:wow raids are tuned to all participants being up to speed with one piece of legendary gear that is worth literally 30% of your damage contribution Man, has WoW raiding really devolved that much? Cause back when I played during vanilla it took like... maybe a month to fully gear up unless you were incredibly unlucky? And that was back before they did token systems and such which streamlined things a lot. Edit: Well, my memory is probably a little off, probably more like 2 months barring bad luck. Obligatum VII fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
Obligatum VII posted:Raiding has always been about challenging yourself, at least to me. Drops are inconsequential, I'd go for it even if there was no reward other than the sense of satisfaction. Eh, it's not that bad. There's a looking for raid mode now which you que for as tank/dps/heals and get tossed into a group. Raids are split into different wings so you do 1-3 bosses at a time with a bunch of randoms with bosses that have lower HP and any mechanics that require actual communication are usually stripped or made less punishing. If you wipe you get a stacking buff to your damage/heals until you beat it. Awards slightly worse loot than doing the raid with an organized group on higher difficulties but you can still get items for legendary quests. It's also set to "personal" loot mode so no fighting over drops with others, you either get an epic or you don't. In my experience you'll usually get one per wing. There's also mythic level which is heroic+ (or normal++ if you prefer) and is filled with people who like to get angry that LFR exists to give casual players lesser versions of (mostly) the same loot they have. The more things change... AzureSkye fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 16:59
|
|
|
LFR is a beautiful idea that should be in literally every game that insists on having "raid" level PvE. Trouble is it's still an LFG system so it's a complete tossup whether half your group is AFK for most of the fight or what have you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:16
|
|
|
Obligatum VII posted:Man, has WoW raiding really devolved that much? Cause back when I played during vanilla it took like... maybe a month to fully gear up unless you were incredibly unlucky? And that was back before they did token systems and such which streamlined things a lot. AzureSkye posted:Eh, it's not that bad. There's a looking for raid mode now which you que for as tank/dps/heals and get tossed into a group. Raids are split into different wings so you do 1-3 bosses at a time with a bunch of randoms with bosses that have lower HP and any mechanics that require actual communication are usually stripped or made less punishing. If you wipe you get a stacking buff to your damage/heals until you beat it. Awards slightly worse loot than doing the raid with an organized group on higher difficulties but you can still get items for legendary quests. It's also set to "personal" loot mode so no fighting over drops with others, you either get an epic or you don't. In my experience you'll usually get one per wing. yeah no worries, it's not so bad. you can enjoy the soothing experience of spending months grinding through Extra Baby Mode where the bosses are tuned to people autoattacking, do no damage, and have no mechanics, yet they somehow take longer than the Mythic versions to kill. after achieving a gear level higher than what Real Mode drops you will then be eligible for an invite into Real Mode where you can enjoy a part time job of killing the same dozen video game punching bags for 18 months. Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
Baron Von Pigeon posted:you should probably find 9 other people who are also into doing this and form a schedule because even a fast clear is a large time commitment compared to the rest of the game. This is the biggest problem, and why people who say "oh it's not a big deal anyone can raid just raid raid raid" are dumber than this loving desk. GW2 is, always has been, and was always marketed and designed to be an accessible casual friendly game. That's why it's drawn so many people of this type to it, and why there's the resistance to raids. All of a sudden, people like me are locked out of significant sections of the game because I cannot schedule my life around videogames, because I cannot commit to the time required (no, it's not 90 minutes, it takes a lot more than that). It's exactly why I stopped playing other games, because the of the scheduling and time commitment. I've grown out of that crap, and it's aggravating that it ends up meaning I don't get to play parts of the game that I paid for, when others do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
The higher level raiders who don't like LFR are usually the ones that have to run it to stay competitive, when there's like, trinkets that give you % increases to stats or good set bonuses, and those don't drop (and get looted to you) in your normal raid clear. BecauseOrv posted:it's still an LFG system so it's a complete tossup whether half your group is AFK for most of the fight or what have you. on top of the queue and extra time anyway. "But you don't have to do it!" And your raid leader doesn't have to take you along when your performance starts falling behind others and the group needs just a little bit more to beat the next boss. There's also non-raiders who hate LFR because it's now the supposed casual endgame and they stepped back development on smaller group content significantly. The earnest 'welfare epics' complaint people mostly came and went nearly 10 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:This is the biggest problem, and why people who say "oh it's not a big deal anyone can raid just raid raid raid" are dumber than this loving desk. GW2 is, always has been, and was always marketed and designed to be an accessible casual friendly game. That's why it's drawn so many people of this type to it, and why there's the resistance to raids. All of a sudden, people like me are locked out of significant sections of the game because I cannot schedule my life around videogames, because I cannot commit to the time required (no, it's not 90 minutes, it takes a lot more than that). It's exactly why I stopped playing other games, because the of the scheduling and time commitment. I've grown out of that crap, and it's aggravating that it ends up meaning I don't get to play parts of the game that I paid for, when others do. Yes, this is a huge problem. Dragon Stand is such an innovative and cool concept that is essentially a 2-hour raid yet they decided to lock multiple things behind true sperg gates. I have much more important things to do in life than carefully cultivate a video game team to play a video game part time job. You can't finish your Masteries, you can't get legendary armor, you can't get ascended gear for some of the best stat combinations without raiding. They need to fire whatever Wildstar retards are trying to tank GW2 with such nonsense. The fact that the LFG system is still in such an abysmal state is unreal. Why aren't there any new dungeons? Why is there no group finder? Why are core features in GW2 7 years behind while they run off to make sperg junk nobody will play? Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
Thunderbro posted:Yes, this is a huge problem. Dragon Stand is such an innovative and cool concept that is essentially a 2-hour raid yet they decided to lock multiple things behind true sperg gates. I have much more important things to do in life than carefully cultivate a video game team to play a video game part time job. You can't finish your Masteries, you can't get legendary armor, you can't get ascended gear for some of the best stat combinations without raiding. See yeah, I'm never going to complete masteries, legendary armour, viper's ascended, etc. And it's not because I'm not capable skillwise or anything? It's because I'm arbitrarily locked out of an entire part of the game because I cannot schedule my time around it. It's a load of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
i'm definitely fine with the inclusion of high-end pve content and would like to see more, but raids feel like they're trying to jam a square peg through a round hole Maybe If They Revamped Dungeons More And Added More Dungeons, but nah, as far as they're concerned those are basically a tumor hanging onto the game
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Adhesive Gamin posted:The higher level raiders who don't like LFR are usually the ones that have to run it to stay competitive, when there's like, trinkets that give you % increases to stats or good set bonuses, and those don't drop (and get looted to you) in your normal raid clear. The class trinkets and tier sets don't drop in LFR and haven't since pandaland. They're bringing back LFR tier in legion but iirc the bonuses are different and designed for open world stuff. Adhesive Gamin posted:There's also non-raiders who hate LFR because it's now the supposed casual endgame and they stepped back development on smaller group content significantly. The earnest 'welfare epics' complaint people mostly came and went nearly 10 years ago. Blizzard hasn't been doing much of developing anything outside of the next xpack to be fair. The most recent raid just turned a year old. They're adding mythic+ dungeons with challenge modes and poo poo in legion which as far as I can tell is basically an attempt to make their own version of fractals. This isn't the WoW thread though so I don't wanna start getting too far away from gw2 chat. e: CLAM DOWN posted:See yeah, I'm never going to complete masteries, legendary armour, viper's ascended, etc. And it's not because I'm not capable skillwise or anything? It's because I'm arbitrarily locked out of an entire part of the game because I cannot schedule my time around it. It's a load of poo poo. AzureSkye fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Johnny Joestar posted:i'm definitely fine with the inclusion of high-end pve content and would like to see more, but raids feel like they're trying to jam a square peg through a round hole I hope they're firing a ton of people responsible for these things and restructuring fairly heavily because this entire expansion has been a mess. Dropping another Sept. expansion would kill this game dead. Like, I just don't get it. ANET essentially patented scaling MMO content yet they can't even make Flex raids? I can't play hard dungeons without grinding through them 100 times first and sinking RL money to keep up with the gold sink Agony Resist? Their leadership is loving up hard and needs to be totally revitalized.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
The hiring of Wildstar devs for raids was a joke, by the way. They're actually the new living story team, so look forward to those releases!
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
Say what you want about SWTOR, but their raid system with 2 sizes and 3 different difficulty levels was a really good idea. Also Arus maybe you should spend less time having birthday parties and making GBS threads your pants on mountains, and more time killing some sweet raid bosses.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
I was informed the hiking incident was a burst hernia not poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
it was a mudslide ok?!
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Eltoasto posted:Also Arus maybe you should spend less time having healthy social interactions, and more time doing nerd poo poo that puts my kids through private school. Nice try Colin 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
Obligatum VII posted:Raiding has always been about challenging yourself, at least to me. Drops are inconsequential, I'd go for it even if there was no reward other than the sense of satisfaction. I don't know what Blizzard was smoking but for a while they kept heaping moronic decisions on top of each other. Like, getting rid of tokens and instead moving you to daily poo poo and RNG when tokens were originally introduced to let people "catch up" or upgrade slots in case you got unlucky with the RNG or wanted to get good enough gear for the current raid without 9-24 other people. Also those completely moronic legendary cloaks/rings in the current and previous expansion. Which is funny because in 2007 they decided "gently caress attunements" and got rid of them, then some time during the development of the Panda land expansion (launched 2012) someone decided "hmm a legendary that everyone can make, amounts to a massive performance increase and takes many weeks to get, DO IT!" and so they added attunements again, except not on paper so they're smarter than the Wildstar devs! Also I think it's more than inertia. Part of the MMO business model is basically preying on mentally unstable people who will keep playing 20 hours a day if it means farming for this next perfect piece of equipment (they just shifted from purely stat-motivated grinds to pretty princess ones in some cases), then complain if they are "done" with content after 300 hours within two weeks. So MMO publishers will never let it go if it means they can get more people to keep paying $15/month (or buying outfits) until they can shove another expansion/big patch out if getting a specific item takes 50 runs instead of 5.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Any time someone says "preying on mentally unstable people" in regards to video games my eyes roll out of my head. People are just stupid and human behavior in regards to false progress is somewhat predictable, it's not some horrible conspiracy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:02
|
|
|
Yes, we can always trust businesses to act responsibly and take our well-being into account instead of acting almost solely on financial incentives.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
AzureSkye posted:It's also set to "personal" loot mode so no fighting over drops with others, you either get an epic or you don't. In my experience you'll usually get one per wing. any MMO where personal loot isn't the case should be taken out the back and shot, in this year of our lord 2016
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
Guest2553 posted:Yes, we can always trust businesses to act responsibly and take our well-being into account instead of acting almost solely on financial incentives. poo poo no, but it's not an episode of Law and Order either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
While I don't think it's going as far as "preying on mentally unstable people", MMO companies absolutely 100% take advantage of the tendencies that the sperglord MMO population are prone to and that's not really deniable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
Orv posted:Any time someone says "preying on mentally unstable people" in regards to video games my eyes roll out of my head. People are just stupid and human behavior in regards to false progress is somewhat predictable, it's not some horrible conspiracy. Inertia comes in where you're conditioning smarter people that even excessive grinds are normal and should be expected and rewarded, but I think this is negligible, judging by how many people I met in MMOs who keep playing in order to go after some insane grind even though 1) they realize they shouldn't 2) they figured out it's not fun and it makes them miserable all the time and 3) they do it anyway. Also Star Citizen's best marketing VP since she was a little girl is actually targeting people who are clearly not of sound mind so there's that. orcane fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
I don't think anyone's denying it, just that it's ultimately the player's responsibility if they become a no-life sperglord.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
gently caress smokescales and gently caress the pristine smokescale claw if i wanted to farm lovely enemies for hours for something with a 0.01% drop rate i'd go back to playing wow
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:48
|
|
|
Magres posted:gently caress smokescales and gently caress the pristine smokescale claw Insert obligatory "random is random" comment here, but I feel like that particular item has an insanely low drop rate. I spent hours on and off trying to get it, I know at least half a dozen people who did the same, and I don't know anyone who said "oh, I got it from the first smokescale I saw". Unlike the other collection items which seem to just drop from the first right kind of mobs you go and kill. There's a couple on a fast respawn timer in Auric basin (where you need to use the ley-line glide, near a hero challenge) which I killed over and over until finally got it. And every fight against them sucked.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
orcane posted:The mentally unstable part is about people who mainly live in a virtual world and constantly run out of things to do, then cry for more. I didn't say MMOs actively target them but you WILL attract them. The side effect to stretching things out for those guys, with time gates and RNG, is that even normal players will take longer to achieve anything. You now have months instead of weeks before Joe Average runs out of "content" if you make him run a dungeon 5 times to level up and 50 times to get a set of gear. As long as you're not overdoing it, Joe Average might indeed be stupid to keep playing the game. Your business model requires people to keep playing your game, so it's much more economical to exploit people like him who are susceptible to, yes, "false progress", instead of trying to develop same quality content in a fraction of the time. This has nothing to do with conspiracies. You can arguably link MMO design to gambling addictions but that's not the point. Mostly I was objecting to your play for Melodrama of the Year with the sentiment of preying on people, you're pretty much correct through this entire post, though I will say that Star Citizen has sort of transcended normal human operation and is now some sort of sentient demi-god of autism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
Maybe not "preying" as such, but personal responsibility only goes so far if you consider people with psychological issues who are hiding in virtual worlds, and those who are actual addicts. I don't think MMO developers intentionally target them when they decide to add things like legendaries that require thousands of gold/mats, but they will attract them nonetheless (like casinos that attract gambling addicts even though they're not the intended audience and might not be welcome at all) and it's a fact that part of the players are sort of a captive audience for different reasons than "just likes grinds" or "is too stupid to stop playing because they hate grinds". I actually just wanted to point out that MMO developers have more reasons to stick to the current formula forever, though, beyond inertia 
orcane fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:While I don't think it's going as far as "preying on mentally unstable people", MMO companies absolutely 100% take advantage of the tendencies that the sperglord MMO population are prone to and that's not really deniable. i.e. like 99% of companies operating under a capitalistic ruleset Kessel fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
actually forget it, let's just post mapchat instead
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
I'm good with circuitous capitalism chat if it spares me from the depredations of map chat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
Azazell0 posted:Insert obligatory "random is random" comment here, but I feel like that particular item has an insanely low drop rate. I spent hours on and off trying to get it, I know at least half a dozen people who did the same, and I don't know anyone who said "oh, I got it from the first smokescale I saw". Unlike the other collection items which seem to just drop from the first right kind of mobs you go and kill. Yeah at the Ancient Golem HP entrance there's 5 of them with 3 veterans, that's where I spent about an hour farming and killed at least a hundred of them without getting it. They're easy enough to kill if you're not playing a squishy class (ie my poor, poor Ele), but they're just tedious. The smoke assault dodging area targeted abilities and the smoke screen making them flat out invincible are both incredibly annoying. Also my fiance said "oh yeah I just randomly got that doing an event when I first started playing, that's hard to get?" when I was griping to her about it. She's a monster Orv posted:Mostly I was objecting to your play for Melodrama of the Year with the sentiment of preying on people, you're pretty much correct through this entire post, though I will say that Star Citizen has sort of transcended normal human operation and is now some sort of sentient demi-god of autism. lmao i'm just imagining a giant fat dude with jowls the size of small cars waving around a semi-truck sized cheeseburger screaming about casuals
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 04:23 |
|
|
Magres posted:i'm just imagining a giant fat dude with jowls the size of small cars waving around a semi-truck sized cheeseburger screaming about casuals His name is Ben Lesnick please show some respect
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 20:54
|
|