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Once again we arrive in the land of "this probably didn't need an excuse until you decided to make an excuse for it and that excuse was a really bad one."
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Jun 23, 2016 19:36
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Hi, i just want to comment and say this probably all would have blown over better if the author just had said 'yeah he is a sheltered racist douche' instead of trying to make it out s a funny thing that people weren't getting. Because I read like 200 pages of the comic and I'm pretty sure that guy was intentionally dumb and Ill informed so everyone could use him as a reader insert and get big descriptions of what was actually happening. And also kinda a jerk.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:43
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Cat Mattress posted:The perception of what is offensive depends a lot on the kind of upbringing you had so it's easy to not realize that something is terribly racist if you never got to see people telling you that indeed it is racist. This is an example of what is called "being sheltered". The Internet abolishing boundaries, so here you go using stuff that you had no idea was deeply offensive, because you had never met anyone who had been offended by it IRL, and suddenly you're told that actually it's very offensive. Many perceive that as an attack on their character (not: their characters) and so they react overly defensively instead of just going "my bad, I didn't realize". Ameicans aren't racist. Thomas Edison found a cure for that
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Jun 23, 2016 19:43
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Cat Mattress posted:The perception of what is offensive depends a lot on the kind of upbringing you had so it's easy to not realize that something is terribly racist if you never got to see people telling you that indeed it is racist. This is an example of what is called "being sheltered". The Internet abolishing boundaries, so here you go using stuff that you had no idea was deeply offensive, because you had never met anyone who had been offended by it IRL, and suddenly you're told that actually it's very offensive. Many perceive that as an attack on their character (not: their characters) and so they react overly defensively instead of just going "my bad, I didn't realize". I don't think anyone's under the impression that America isn't racist as gently caress. I'm just really tired of Europeans using aloofness to excuse casual racism (aka the Humon defense)
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Jun 23, 2016 20:04
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KittyEmpress posted:Hi, i just want to comment and say this probably all would have blown over better if the author just had said 'yeah he is a sheltered racist douche' instead of trying to make it out s a funny thing that people weren't getting. Because I read like 200 pages of the comic and I'm pretty sure that guy was intentionally dumb and Ill informed so everyone could use him as a reader insert and get big descriptions of what was actually happening. And also kinda a jerk. I felt kinda the same way about the protagonist in her last thing where like Pitch mentioned he's blatantly some kind of sociopath who likes torturing small animals and is universally regarded with alarm by everyone, but the narrative just kinda shrugs it off and Minna herself kept talking like those were all just little quirks and the whole joke wasn't that the magical woodland animal fairytale accidentally roped a loving psycho into its protagonist role so who the hell knows, just roll with the version that makes for a better story to you. Islam is the rash disease and the only cure is withdrawing from the EU
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Jun 23, 2016 20:05
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Pick posted:I'd agree, if this were the only context in which someone cared about racism. Hopefully they care about racism here because they also care about racism elsewhere, and it's being expressed here in the context of webcomics because this is the thread about webcomics. I was criticizing the people complaining about the people calling out the racism, in case that wasn't clear. I was confused by your response, but upon rereading my post I realize it can be interpreted either way, whoops. To be more clear: The people who are trying to say it's not fair to call a person racist for saying racist things are probably racist themselves, because there is no good reason to do that sort of thing and thus they either feel the need to defend racist acts or are such complete idiots they don't realize how stupid what they are doing is, similar to how only racists, idiots, and racist idiots complain about people being punished or told to shut up for using racial slurs. Either way, their posts are really bad.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:14
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if media has bad things in it, then it must be because the creator of the media is bad and hopes those bad things happen/are real. shun the creator and burn their works.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:23
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I felt kinda the same way about the protagonist in her last thing where like Pitch mentioned he's blatantly some kind of sociopath who likes torturing small animals and is universally regarded with alarm by everyone, but the narrative just kinda shrugs it off and Minna herself kept talking like those were all just little quirks and the whole joke wasn't that the magical woodland animal fairytale accidentally roped a loving psycho into its protagonist role so who the hell knows, just roll with the version that makes for a better story to you. Islam is the rash disease and the only cure is withdrawing from the EU A Redtail's Dream is interesting because nearly every character is some kind of selfish rear end, with the exception of Ville. It even sort of obliquely calls attention to that when Moose's description of the gods inadvertently draws a parallel between Hannu and Puppyfox, the latter of whom is the worst little poo poo in the whole story. Hannu's an unpleasant person, but it's his faint concern for Ville that keeps him above the totally self-interested rear end in a top hat dog-god trying to unmake them all. I'm probably trying to draw themes where none exist, but it makes the story a whole lot more palatable.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:26
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Chair In A Basket posted:if media has bad things in it, then it must be because the creator of the media is bad and hopes those bad things happen/are real. Separation of art and author is a good thing to keep in mind, yeah, but that doesn't stop it from being skeevy when an author has a character drop a racial slur in what's obviously supposed to be a comic relief moment and then issue a non-apology
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Jun 23, 2016 20:29
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Chair In A Basket posted:if media has bad things in it, then it must be because the creator of the media is bad and hopes those bad things happen/are real. Lol you people are so wierd
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Jun 23, 2016 20:33
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I don't know where the sociopath stuff is coming from, Hannu is better adjusted than any teen I've met here.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:37
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Does the stay silent comic seem a little visually cluttered to anyone else? The art is all very nicely rendered and thought out but something about it seems like it's working against a certain clarity of information that works well for comics, which ironically strikes me as a very "webcomics" thing to do. Also in terms of "race relations" it seems kind of silly to me that the speech bubbles sometimes have to indicate the different language these characters are speaking considering these countries are all like within five feet of each other.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:42
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FunkyAl posted:Does the stay silent comic seem a little visually cluttered to anyone else? The art is all very nicely rendered and thought out but something about it seems like it's working against a certain clarity of information that works well for comics, which ironically strikes me as a very "webcomics" thing to do. Also in terms of "race relations" it seems kind of silly to me that the speech bubbles sometimes have to indicate the different language these characters are speaking considering these countries are all like within five feet of each other. These countries now have to maintain strict borders for the last hundred years due to an unending infestation of plague-raddled hellmonsters, so it's understandable that natives would cease to speak the lingo. And as some of the interstitial pages have noted, for languages originating from nearly adjacent regions, some of them sound almost nothing alike.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:54
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Oxxidation posted:These countries now have to maintain strict borders for the last hundred years due to an unending infestation of plague-raddled hellmonsters, so it's understandable that natives would cease to speak the lingo. I guess the application seems a little obtuse then. Can these characters understand each other, or are they constantly translating for each other? I can understand wanting to have complicated dynamics wherein not all of your characters fully understand each other, but it both seems like it would be a better fit for film and is also kind of hampered by the characters looking so similar and not having a really hugely different cultural or moral background. Five anglo-saxons walk into a bar, but they're all wearing different looking pants! That kind of thing. E: Anglo-Saxons is probably the wrong word here but, y'know FunkyAl fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:04
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FunkyAl posted:I guess the application seems a little obtuse then. Can these characters understand each other, or are they constantly translating for each other? I can understand wanting to have complicated dynamics wherein not all of your characters fully understand each other, but it both seems like it would be a better fit for film and is also kind of hampered by the characters looking so similar and not having a really hugely different cultural or moral background. Five anglo-saxons walk into a bar, but they're all wearing different looking pants! That kind of thing. A combination. Some characters share languages, there's one dude that only speaks Finnish (I think) so everything has to be translated for him by the only other person who speaks it, stuff like that. The character bio page lists the languages each character speaks, and the flags in the speech bubbles indicate what language is currently being spoken, but yeah it's kinda hard to keep track of. V this is a much better worded version of what I was trying to say, it's been a while since I read through the comic. dmboogie fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:09
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FunkyAl posted:I guess the application seems a little obtuse then. Can these characters understand each other, or are they constantly translating for each other? I can understand wanting to have complicated dynamics wherein not all of your characters fully understand each other, but it both seems like it would be a better fit for film and is also kind of hampered by the characters looking so similar and not having a really hugely different cultural or moral background. Five anglo-saxons walk into a bar, but they're all wearing different looking pants! That kind of thing. I think the way it goes is that the Finnish and Norwegian speakers share enough cognates so that they can at least semi-competently communicate with each other, but the Danish and Icelandic speakers are in a world of their own (the former because of bizarre syntax and pronunciation, the latter because it's been in its own little corner of the world for the last, like, thousand years). Perky Short-Hair Driver Girl acts as the interpreter for the group, so they can all understand each other fine so long as she's in the room, but otherwise they need to muddle through with simple sentences and pantomime. Lalli is almost totally incommunicado because he's Icelandic and has socialization problems to boot. e: nope, all of the above is wrong, oh God Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:09
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HorseRenoir posted:I don't think anyone's under the impression that America isn't racist as gently caress. I'm just really tired of Europeans using aloofness to excuse casual racism (aka the Humon defense) I've noticed that European authors tend to use the "I don't see it as racist, maybe YOU are the real racists dundundun" argument. Getting into Games posting here but my favorite instance of this was when some European developer released a game on Steam that's literally "Slave Tetris". Also I don't get why people are saying this thread is on a witch-hunt. Going "haha what a tool" is not really harsh discourse. mycot fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:21
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dmboogie posted:A combination. Some characters share languages, there's one dude that only speaks Finnish (I think) so everything has to be translated for him by the only other person who speaks it, stuff like that. The character bio page lists the languages each character speaks, and the flags in the speech bubbles indicate what language is currently being spoken, but yeah it's kinda hard to keep track of. It's a clever conceit but yeah this poo poo, this right here, is loving awful and I have no idea who understands who and should not need to consult a loving table every conversation to sort that out. If there were two languages in play and half the team could understand each other but not the other half, and likewise in reverse, and maybe even one person could communicate with both, that's fine and simple but the chart of 'who understands who' here feels like one of those conspiracy theory wallboards with a hundred little post-its connected by a spider's web of string.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:27
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It's not hard. No one understands Finnish, because it's some goddamned alien moon language with no relation to the language of honor and heroes (Swedish). All others speak Swedish with some form of dialect, Danish being the ugliest sounding one and Icelandic the least comprehensible.
DekeThornton fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:38
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I felt kinda the same way about the protagonist in her last thing where like Pitch mentioned he's blatantly some kind of sociopath who likes torturing small animals and is universally regarded with alarm by everyone, but the narrative just kinda shrugs it off and Minna herself kept talking like those were all just little quirks and the whole joke wasn't that the magical woodland animal fairytale accidentally roped a loving psycho into its protagonist role so who the hell knows, just roll with the version that makes for a better story to you. Islam is the rash disease and the only cure is withdrawing from the EU Let me be clear, I don't think all stories should be morality tales. In fact, my favorite stories are usually just very interesting dilemmas with no clear answers, which are then left for the reader to puzzle over (Cucumber Quest is doing that brilliantly at the moment, and Cheap Thrills always did it well). So it's not that I minded that the main character of ARD was a psychopath, it's that it didn't feel like that ever mattered or had a substantive effect on anything. It almost felt like the writer didn't particularly care, and that's a bizarre feeling considering how easily the narrative could have framed things in a more thought-provoking way. At the end, even, when the dog guy just continues being loyal, it didn't really gel as any kind of thematic point. It does come close to "what do you do when your hero's journey materializes around a person who is a danger to those around him" except, it never seems to particularly go there, or have anything to communicate in that respect. I've read it a few times, since I have it in print form, and beyond the literal interpretation I just don't know what it's about.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:44
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DekeThornton posted:It's not hard. No one understands Finnish, because it's some goddamned alien moon language with no relation to the language of honor and heroes (Swedish). All others speak Swedish with some form of dialect, Danish being the ugliest sounding one and Icelandic the least comprehensible. That kind of thing has very diminishing returns the farther you get from the region it was created, at least in the slightly baffling way it's presented here.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:56
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Ching Chong
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Jun 23, 2016 22:07
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Pick posted:Let me be clear, I don't think all stories should be morality tales. In fact, my favorite stories are usually just very interesting dilemmas with no clear answers, which are then left for the reader to puzzle over (Cucumber Quest is doing that brilliantly at the moment, and Cheap Thrills always did it well). So it's not that I minded that the main character of ARD was a psychopath, it's that it didn't feel like that ever mattered or had a substantive effect on anything. It almost felt like the writer didn't particularly care, and that's a bizarre feeling considering how easily the narrative could have framed things in a more thought-provoking way. At the end, even, when the dog guy just continues being loyal, it didn't really gel as any kind of thematic point. It does come close to "what do you do when your hero's journey materializes around a person who is a danger to those around him" except, it never seems to particularly go there, or have anything to communicate in that respect. I've read it a few times, since I have it in print form, and beyond the literal interpretation I just don't know what it's about. I think it's just a funny spin on the fairytale format, it's like Hero or Hancock except the hero doesn't really have a heart of gold deep down he's just a little rear end in a top hat, but not quite enough of an rear end in a top hat to let his whole town die (so long as his dog nags him a bit). Sorta like Digger did with the completely unromantic, no-nonsense character who's thoroughly unimpressed by anything that doesn't have a blueprint (but Digger was much better written). Those are mostly narratives that revolve around Good and Evil, where the protagonist is selfless and passionate and brave or at least two out of three; in ARTD only Ville's any of those things, but the world keeps turning regardless and it all ultimately works out.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:09
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Olla kiimainen. Panna sinua viisi taala.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:14
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Here's something funny! My Finnish friend, per tradition, pours his cereal in his bowl and pours his milk over it, while I, a swede, pour my milk first! But even two goofy guys like us can get along! In my webcomic about the apocalypse only aryans have survived the plague brought over to us by migrant Spaniards
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Jun 23, 2016 22:18
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man gently caress webcomics web arguments is where its at
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Jun 23, 2016 22:18
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WEB TRAGICS
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Jun 23, 2016 22:20
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Oxxidation posted:And as some of the interstitial pages have noted, for languages originating from nearly adjacent regions, some of them sound almost nothing alike. Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, meaning that it's closer to Hungarian than to other Scandinavian languages. (Estonian is in the same family, too.) It's also more distantly related to Uralic languages. Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, and co. on the other hand are North Germanic languages, so it's a completely different family, one which as you can guess is related to other Germanic languages, including English. If the comic took place on the Iberian peninsula, you could have the same dynamic with Castilian Spanish, Catalan, Galego, Portuguese... and Basque.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:23
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Phy posted:WEB TRAGICS Bunny Meat?
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Jun 23, 2016 22:26
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KittyEmpress posted:Bunny Meat?
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Jun 23, 2016 22:31
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FunkyAl posted:Here's something funny! My Finnish friend, per tradition, pours his cereal in his bowl and pours his milk over it, while I, a swede, pour my milk first! But even two goofy guys like us can get along! In my webcomic about the apocalypse only aryans have survived the plague brought over to us by migrant Spaniards Give me the link so I can comment on every comic about how you are a terrible person who fucks up your cereal. 
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Jun 23, 2016 22:49
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Cat Mattress posted:Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, meaning that it's closer to Hungarian than to other Scandinavian languages. (Estonian is in the same family, too.) It's also more distantly related to Uralic languages. Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, and co. on the other hand are North Germanic languages, so it's a completely different family, one which as you can guess is related to other Germanic languages, including English. Yeah, Basque is particularly weird in that it's not related to any of the other languages of Spain at all nor the rest of Europe for that matter. It's just its own thing which is pretty cool.
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Jun 23, 2016 23:05
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 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 24, 2016 00:15
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wow don't doxx me
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Jun 24, 2016 00:16
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Hey buddy, I know a guy who would love to buy some parts from ya. Edit: wow, totally wrong thread. ha ha.
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Jun 24, 2016 00:23
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it's the right thread
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Jun 24, 2016 00:26
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woah avshalom
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Jun 24, 2016 00:47
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Minä rakastaa sinä koko ilta.
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Jun 24, 2016 01:59
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Alaois posted:wow don't doxx me why do you have one buff rubber arm and one lovely plastic action figure arm?
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Jun 24, 2016 03:07
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Nuns with Guns posted:why do you have one buff rubber arm and one lovely plastic action figure arm? Hunter X Hunter cosplay.
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Jun 24, 2016 03:15
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