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When people discuss Widowmaker they also tend to largely discuss a flawless magical being who always has their cooldowns up, never misses a shot, is completely unflappable, is never injured or targeted by anyone else and also they assume that they themselves are making mistakes that the Widowmaker can easily capitalize on. So it's lot of "Well, i COULD get on a Widowmaker and she'll instantly grapple away while also doing a 360 noscope headshot twice on me through my shield!" Even if you're playing against the best Widowmakers in the world they are not flawless god-beings. She was unbalanced in part due to overall too high-damage and a low punishment for missing shots, one of which has already been addressed and had a significant impact. A Widowmaker is going to be strong if she's played well and strong in a way that requires coordination to get around. That isn't a bad thing in a team game.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:55
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I feel the place Widowmaker actually needs work is not the sniping, but her other gun. Her being an FPS sniper isn't bad in this FPS game especially considering the maps are usually designed such that there is always an alternate route and if she is FPS sniping she usually has to sacrifice being a body on an objective. What is a problem is that she's actually somewhat good if you do get close to her, which is weird for a Sniper style character in my opinion. I'd argue that the Widowmaker fix is to make her other gun really bad. So that if you get close she either has to have planned ahead with the Widow Mine or she has to flee, she should not beat any other character in direct combat except maybe Mercy/D.Va out her robot at close range. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 18:56
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Ddraig posted:If you get hooked by the hog, congratulations, you're in range where you're having a meaningful impact on the outcome of the game. Next week's brawl should be widowmaker only, no ults, triple the charge rate on her scoped shot and no unscoped shots. KOTH Maps only.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:56
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I kinda wish they would just drop widow to 150 health. I wonder what the reason for her 200 hp actually is. From what I've heard, it was so a charged body shot wouldn't instakill an opposing Widow. (before they nerfed body shot damage) No idea if that's true or not, but it makes sense.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:00
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ImpAtom posted:A Widowmaker is going to be strong if she's played well and strong in a way that requires coordination to get around. That isn't a bad thing in a team game. The problem is that relative to every other hero in the game, bypassing widowmaker takes an inordinate amount of resources to deal with, more than any single other hero in the game. When people talk about the bastion/reinhardt/mercy combo, that's three team mates working together and cracking that is going to be relatively tough and require a bit of planning. When people talk about Widowmaker and how to deal with her it inevitably comes down to an elaborate setup where multiple people are working together and hopefully none of the other team mates get involved. That's kind of hosed up that one single character can have such a huge impact.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:03
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So last night I finally had some time to sit down and actually play some matches. I played Lucio the entire time and did pretty well with him. I'm not going to lie though, I got a little salty over people not picking me in the post game screen thingy. Kill streaks are great and all but how do you think you stayed alive long enough to do that buddy?  Anyhow, can anyone give me some tips on utilizing Lucio's wall slide? I didn't really see any obvious chances but I'm sure I missed them because of inexperience.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:07
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vulturesrow posted:Anyhow, can anyone give me some tips on utilizing Lucio's wall slide? I didn't really see any obvious chances but I'm sure I missed them because of inexperience. Its sort of just a thing you do when available and it's mostly not something that's really available. Most walls have a ton of poo poo and edges that stop you and gently caress up movement and every single pole or doodad will gently caress it up for you. Some maps are better (mostly KOTH) like Lijing Tower where you can run circles around the inside of the tower and you can use amp it up to run circles around people jumping off the middle of the tower and then around the sides like it's Sonic Pinball. But honestly just use it to climb ice walls and poo poo as needed but don't worry too much about it because it's only very rarely practical.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:13
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BobTheJanitor posted:From what I've heard, it was so a charged body shot wouldn't instakill an opposing Widow. (before they nerfed body shot damage) No idea if that's true or not, but it makes sense. I thought of that after that post, but giving her 151 hp accomplishes the same thing. 160 if you want to be even about it. Every time I jump on a widow as winston and she doesn't die, she survives with a sliver. She's the only backliner like that.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH0ePK5ia50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O17pAn4MH7A
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Jun 23, 2016 19:14
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Voting cards at the end of a match should give more experience to someone if they can get five votes. Every character should also have a legendary skin which can only be unlocked if you get a unanimous 12 votes for your end-of-match card. These are my terrible ideas, hire me Blizzard.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:22
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I thought of that after that post, but giving her 151 hp accomplishes the same thing. 160 if you want to be even about it. Every time I jump on a widow as winston and she doesn't die, she survives with a sliver. She's the only backliner like that. They do seem to want to keep it even. Right now the only 150 heroes are Tracer and Zenyatta (unless I'm forgetting something). 200 seems to be the baseline that most characters have, outside of close range attackers like Mei and Reaper, and then the tanks are 400 and up. Maybe Widow could go to 175 if they don't want to knock her down to 150. But I'm generally in agreement that if you get a surprise attack on her in close range 1v1 with pretty much any class she should be a relatively easy kill, and that's not the case right now. She's got S:76's HP and nearly the same weapon as him too.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:28
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Voting cards at the end of a match should give more experience to someone if they can get five votes. Every character should also have a legendary skin which can only be unlocked if you get a unanimous 12 votes for your end-of-match card. Do you actually get anything besides a pat on the back if you do get 5 or 10 votes?
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Jun 23, 2016 19:30
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RCarr posted:Do you actually get anything besides a pat on the back if you do get 5 or 10 votes? Nope.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:35
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RCarr posted:Do you actually get anything besides a pat on the back if you do get 5 or 10 votes? Your character says a voice line and you get to hear "EPIC" or "LEGENDARY" but that's about it
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Jun 23, 2016 19:38
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Huh, I figured you'd at least get some bonus XP or something for 10 votes. I've only seen it once.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:39
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I got a good Mercy rework. Remove the ult charge from her healing beam and damage boost, she can only charge it through shooting. This forces Mercy to balance offense and support. Make her fly skill even faster, so she's like a slower Tracer in the air. This reworks the class to have a really good offensive presence, and make Mercy a flanking support with a good ultimate. I'd play a fast zippy air character like that.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:40
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One of my best moments last night playing as Lucio was hunting down a Mercy. Healer vs healer slapfight was fun! I actually got a fair amount of assists and eliminations as Lucio which was pretty cool.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:44
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Voting cards at the end of a match should give more experience to someone if they can get five votes. Every character should also have a legendary skin which can only be unlocked if you get a unanimous 12 votes for your end-of-match card. 12 means you voted for yourself though, so all the skins should include a "kick me" sign for being shameful
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Jun 23, 2016 19:49
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I think every person in the game should get 10 XP for every person in the game that votes. Encourage every person to actually use the system, reward everyone equally.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:54
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fuckin' rip page  you weren't chill enough to save this thread
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Jun 23, 2016 19:54
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Zoness posted:please dont say anything that suggests that mei is acceptable Were you watching Seagull attacking on King's Row? He was like "Torbjorn... what? They have a Mei too?" Actually that might have been this morning.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:55
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Grammaton posted:Were you watching Seagull attacking on King's Row? He was like "Torbjorn... what? They have a Mei too?" Actually that might have been this morning. no this was the monthly brawl by gosugamers
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Jun 23, 2016 19:58
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Huxley posted:I think every person in the game should get 10 XP for every person in the game that votes. Encourage every person to actually use the system, reward everyone equally. Just realized this wouldn't work since XP is technically awarded at the Victory/Defeat screen and not when the graphic plays after votes. You can't award all the XP after voting because people drop and they probably don't want to have to do the XP award twice per match per person just for 50-100 XP. Hrm.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:04
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Ddraig posted:The problem is that relative to every other hero in the game, bypassing widowmaker takes an inordinate amount of resources to deal with, more than any single other hero in the game. It really isn't though. Widowmaker is strong at locking down a single area but can be displaced by a Winston and forced to back off or retreat. (And this is where the "and then she'll instantly headshot me twice" thing comes into play.) Even if she kills Winston she's forced to leave her strong sniping position and focus on him instead of your teammates. And here you bring up "but there's other enemies shooting me" and then yes, it comes down to your team working together better than their team.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:06
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A lot of times with Widowmaker, it's not about killing her, it's about limiting her effectiveness. This is why disruption heroes counter her even if they might not be able to kill her. If she's off her perch, the game's essentially a 5v6 until she can make it back up there, and with lots of disruptors having lower cooldowns on their movement abilities than Widow, a single Winston or D.Va can be good enough.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:11
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For basically every other hero, though, countering means killing. It doesn't seem appropriate that "countering" a Widow mostly just bothers her, and it's something I expect Blizzard to work on.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:28
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Yeah, and that also seems to gloss over the fact that someone is pending time continuously knocking her off her perch.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:29
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Supercar Gautier posted:For basically every other hero, though, countering means killing. It doesn't seem appropriate that "countering" a Widow mostly just bothers her, and it's something I expect Blizzard to work on. I mean, the same has been said about flankers. Getting a Genji to run with no kills is the next best thing to killing him outright.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:38
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Supercar Gautier posted:For basically every other hero, though, countering means killing. It doesn't seem appropriate that "countering" a Widow mostly just bothers her, and it's something I expect Blizzard to work on. Not really. A lot of time a counter is something that kills the other side but more often than not it's something that weakens the other side's ability to function. This happens to frequently involve killing but not exclusively. Being able to reliably take out Torb's turrets is countering him even if you're not killing him. Winston's ability to trivially wreck a carwash with minimal risk makes him strong against Symmetra. Zayra's ability to completely nullify a Junkrat ult on two characters makes her extremely strong against him even if she doesn't kill him to do it. Reinherdt can shut down a D'Va's ult just by existing. (Which is kind of a problem on its own but makes D'va's already weak ult even weaker.) Tracer isn't just strong because she can kill your healer. She's strong because you have to devote time and resources to stopping her from doing that. A good Tracer might not kill your Mercy but she'll mean you have to spend time stopping her or she's going to just keep trying. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 20:49
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Wasting people's time is an underrated strategy in this game. I've had several D.Va games where tying up two members of the other team just being distracting and dumb in the sidelines has resulted in my team winning a 5v4 fight and capping or defending an objected. Most pub teams are nowhere near coordinated enough to not fall for strats like that. They see the lone D.Va nerding it up and go boost their K/D while their team dies.
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Jun 23, 2016 20:57
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I love to sow Chaos
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Jun 23, 2016 20:59
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 is this supposed to happen
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Jun 23, 2016 20:59
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ImpAtom posted:Not really. A lot of time a counter is something that kills the other side but more often than not it's something that weakens the other side's ability to function. This happens to frequently involve killing but not exclusively. Being able to reliably take out Torb's turrets is countering him even if you're not killing him. Winston's ability to trivially wreck a carwash with minimal risk makes him strong against Symmetra. Zayra's ability to completely nullify a Junkrat ult on two characters makes her extremely strong against him even if she doesn't kill him to do it. Reinherdt can shut down a D'Va's ult just by existing. (Which is kind of a problem on its own but makes D'va's already weak ult even weaker.) Tracer isn't just strong because she can kill your healer. She's strong because you have to devote time and resources to stopping her from doing that. A good Tracer might not kill your Mercy but she'll mean you have to spend time stopping her or she's going to just keep trying. The problem with this ideology though is that those other characters will have an ability countered, but they'll still be in the fight, and have some combat effectiveness. If you don't kill Widow, she finds a health pack and comes back five seconds later at full force, if she kills your Winston, it's another 20+ seconds before you have another chance to flank her. And I generally rarely see players other than really good Genjis be able to flank past the entire team to reach Widow. Which then she either flees or grapples to her teammates. The ape is just too visible and the side-routes aren't detached enough from the main routes to be able to constantly shut her down.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:00
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Thumbtacks posted:
no, you should generally win games that you're two players up on
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Jun 23, 2016 21:02
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I had a game as Tracer on offense where I kept 3 of the attackers stupidly running around looking for me behind their lines, instead of pushing the objective. Being a pest is seriously underrated in this game. Keeping enemies occupied can be just as efficient as killing them. quote="kojei" post="461366456"] no, you should generally win games that you're two players up on [/quote] 
RCarr fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 21:03
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Thumbtacks posted:
That Zarya is NotSoGood. Average of barely 20 damage blocked per shield, that's like one shot.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:05
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Ddraig posted:Widowmaker seems like they were designed to appeal to people who are bad at FPS games and want to do well: 200 health, a tiny hitbox, a reliable escape, a close range assault rifle, one hit kills, poison mines, wallhacks etc. If people "bad at FPS" are making your life terrible while playing widowmaker, it probably means you are even worse at FPS. I don't know anyone "bad at FPS" that are amazing at Widow. Maybe you need to work on your movement or awareness or something?
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Jun 23, 2016 21:06
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Countblanc posted:I love to sow Chaos Chaos Dva, the true OP hero of Overwatch.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:07
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Thumbtacks posted:
was that just in the post-game screen (if so I assume it moved the "missing" person from the top team to yours for whatever reason), or was the game itself 7v6?
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Jun 23, 2016 21:08
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i just assume he was dropped into a game that ended before he had a chance to pick a hero
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Jun 23, 2016 21:10
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