|
Thor-Stryker posted:The problem with this ideology though is that those other characters will have an ability countered, but they'll still be in the fight, and have some combat effectiveness. If you don't kill Widow, she finds a health pack and comes back five seconds later at full force, if she kills your Winston, it's another 20+ seconds before you have another chance to flank her. Yes, if any character escapes from being killed then they will come back. However Widowmaker's strength is area denial so by making her go and get a health pack you've made it easier to take an area. I also think at this point it's kinda silly that people are pointing at a single cooldown on a 12 second cooldown as an instant uncounterable get out of free jail card. Winston's jump is on a 6 second cooldown. He can literally jump twice in the time it takes Widowmaker's escape to replenish, not also counting his 600 HP barrier on a 13 second cooldown. (And this is all assuming he doesn't have his ult up.) Like I said earlier, the argument always seems to be "Widowmaker will play absolutely perfect, score multiple headshots on an enemy directly in her face and her entire team will help her while I am singlehandedly trying to shut her down with no help from my own team." Even in competitive play Widowmaker isn't that unstoppable a behemoth. I won't argue that Widowmaker wasn't unbalance (because she was) or that she probably still doesn't need tuning (I think she shouldn't get rapid followup shots) but 'she needs to be removed from the game because there's no way to counter her' style stuff is silly. I'd say at worst she's probably not well-tuned for a team who isn't working cooperatively and rather than being singular there I think she's just one of many examples in the game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 23, 2016 |
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 22:23 |
|
|
BobTheJanitor posted:And yes, Mercy's HP is displayed in a place where you can actually watch it in your periphery while focusing on what's under your crosshair. That's nice! I wish my own was displayed somewhere around there, instead of 12 inches away.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Like I said earlier, the argument always seems to be "Widowmaker will play absolutely perfect, score multiple headshots on an enemy directly in her face and her entire team will help her while I am singlehandedly trying to shut her down with no help from my own team." Even in competitive play Widowmaker isn't that unstoppable a behemoth. I agree with you but, to be fair, that competitive widowmaker is going against a team that knows how to block her line of sight and work together with their tanks to diminish her effectiveness. that same widowmaker in a pub would have a much greater impact
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
subx posted:If people "bad at FPS" are making your life terrible while playing widowmaker, it probably means you are even worse at FPS. I don't know anyone "bad at FPS" that are amazing at Widow. Maybe you need to work on your movement or awareness or something? There was a second part of that post. Perhaps you need to work on your awareness?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
Someone should really nerf Widowmaker posts, a single poster can lock the whole thread down and there's hardly any counterplay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
Dr Cheeto posted:Someone should really nerf Widowmaker posts, a single poster can lock the whole thread down and there's hardly any counterplay. The double counterpoint comp works really poorly against the posters' 'ignore dissent' ability.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Dr Cheeto posted:Someone should really nerf Widowmaker posts, a single poster can lock the whole thread down and there's hardly any counterplay. I tried flanking with an article about Widowmaker being a less common pick than Symmetra in post-nerf tournaments but they grappling hooked away. e: on the other hand data-driven whining might lead to Mercy nerfs, so maybe I should just quietly switch to support. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
I like playing Mercy and I sure wouldn't be upset if they nerf her ult somehow. When I started playing I thought it was single-target for quite a while because teammates were never considerate enough to die near each other and it still seemed pretty useful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
Zoness posted:The double counterpoint comp works really poorly against the posters' 'ignore dissent' ability. I instalock shitposting in every game. I'm a shitposting main. I have 2.8 KDR on shitposting, and you aren't going to convince me to switch to non-shitposting posts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
Dr Cheeto posted:Someone should really nerf Widowmaker posts, a single poster can lock the whole thread down and there's hardly any counterplay. Don't be silly, mods are practically a hard counter. ...unless their credit card is off cooldown, then good luck
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
Dr Cheeto posted:Someone should really nerf Widowmaker posts, a single poster can lock the whole thread down and there's hardly any counterplay. Gonna use my ult and say Widowmaker should get less HP and her unscoped gun should be less effective 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Honestly, in terms of heroes I find most annoying in terms of counterplay, I'd put Tracer a lot higher than Widowmaker. A good Tracer basically requires team focus to stop, especially in this new crappy McCree world. It's pretty trivial for her to escape and fairly easy for her to harass down a support who doesn't get someone coming in to defend them. A bad Tracer is of course a giant load on her team and it requires a lot of work to be a good Tracer but goddamn if a good Tracer isn't going to be ni-immortal and sticking a bomb to your support's face every chance they get. She's still perfectly stoppable but a good Tracer feels infinitely more frustrating to me than a good Widow. Sindai posted:I like playing Mercy and I sure wouldn't be upset if they nerf her ult somehow. I love Mercy but yeah, her ult needs a cooldown increase. It's so easy to fill that it's up significantly more than Lucio or Zenyatta's, while being arguably way more powerful. It has no self-protection like they do but can undo an excellent enemy play and do so about every 30 seconds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
I just think it's annoying that with Widow you have to counterpick against her or else she can go the whole round with very little resistance. At least with Tracer you only have to constantly turn around and make her leave and you can do that with any hero, with Widowmaker I have to drop what I'm doing and swap or else she's going to be taking potshots at us all round.
tap my mountain fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:A good Tracer basically requires team focus to stop, especially in this new crappy McCree world. It's pretty trivial for her to escape and fairly easy for her to harass down a support who doesn't get someone coming in to defend them. A bad Tracer is of course a giant load on her team and it requires a lot of work to be a good Tracer but goddamn if a good Tracer isn't going to be ni-immortal and sticking a bomb to your support's face every chance they get. In my experience the counter to Tracer is to throw an orb of discord and she'll run the hell away. Probably die as well if I can aim half-decently with my pokeballs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
A Winston is pretty good at chasing her off, if not killing her outright.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
If there's two Tracers it's time to Torbjorn. All those fancy moves are not going to stop that turret from automatically locking on. I had a game where a Tracer really didn't want to switch characters and basically focussed on the frontline until she got ult, ulted the turret and then hoped to push the payload in the 3 seconds before another turret was up. She did this like 4 times.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
Pop Molten Core while the bomb is stuck, then laugh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
obviously the counter to tracer is mei's 150 headshot damage alt fire 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
I played my first full game as Hanzo today and killed a Tracer once so clearly he's the hard counter because I am a terrible garbage sniper.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Honestly, in terms of heroes I find most annoying in terms of counterplay, I'd put Tracer a lot higher than Widowmaker. Good tracers are very difficult to stop b/c they require your team to recognize when they should or shouldn't chase her -- most people are terrible at this and will chase a tracer for half the map while the objective is getting captured by the other team. Knowing to chase, how far to chase, when to disengage, and when to just flat-out ignore a Tracer attempting to distract you from the point takes a level of gamesense and awareness you don't find in most pubs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
That's true, but Tracer isn't simply a distraction, she's insanely lethal - If she's landing headshots she deals >200 dps and can vacate in a split second. Fortunately she's not terribly strong in the 1-hero-limit competitive meta but sometimes you'll find people willing to run double Tracer and it's a loving nightmare once you get to a certain mmr.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
Played my first all D.Va game today, we were attack on Route 66. The other team was woefully unprepared, I've never seen a team get the payload in so fast. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:That's true, but Tracer isn't simply a distraction, she's insanely lethal - If she's landing headshots she deals >200 dps and can vacate in a split second. Fortunately she's not terribly strong in the 1-hero-limit competitive meta but sometimes you'll find people willing to run double Tracer and it's a loving nightmare once you get to a certain mmr. Yes, that's why you need gamesense and awareness to decide when Tracer is being a distraction from more important objectives, and when you absolutely need to take her out. What hero you're playing, what your role is, how able you are to even fight tracer, whether you're pushing the objective or at spawn, how much time left is remaining in the around -- all play a big part. If you're Reinhardt shielding your team as you push onto the point with 30 seconds left, you probably don't want to drop your shield and charge after Tracer. If you're McCree and you see Tracer darting back to your spawn to pick off stragglers, then you might want to spend more time going after her. A big part of my Tracer play is to be as annoying as possible, and forcing the enemy team to make bad decisions about chasing me -- you want them to feel "Damnit I need to take out this Tracer because she keeps killing my Mercy, but I can't spare the time to chase after her either..."
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
incidentally, tracer's really fun once you get the hang of her
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Manatee Cannon posted:incidentally, tracer's really fun once you get the hang of her this is an understatement, Tracer is a masterwork of design and i wish more characters in this game were built around frequent use of multiple movement abilities i mean there's Reaper and Pharah but they're not quite the same e: and Genji, okay so basically i just have an unfilled yearning for the return of the UT translocator Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:this is an understatement, Tracer is a masterwork of design and i wish more characters in this game were built around frequent use of multiple movement abilities If every character could zip around and teleport and fly this game would be terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Finally had a good game as Genji, he might be clicking. We'll see if I can keep up with the good games.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
Verranicus posted:If every character could zip around and teleport and fly this game would be terrible. I don't want every character to do it, I'd just like more options, more ways to be an obnoxious little flea. e: someone in the chill thread wished for a fast, offensive melee hero, that's a good example of the kind of thing I'd like to see. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
Genji basically is a fast offensive melee hero though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
get this they should make a hero called racer. her abilities will be to shoot fast and move fast and
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Genji basically is a fast offensive melee hero though. For 8 seconds every few minutes, sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:44
|
|
|
A grappler hero might be cool. Might.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:46
|
|
|
a cat on an apple posted:A grappler hero might be cool. sadly Overwatch rounds aren't long enough to justify implementing the Onos devour, and Blizzard wouldn't have the stones for it anyways
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:48
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:this is an understatement, Tracer is a masterwork of design and i wish more characters in this game were built around frequent use of multiple movement abilities Tracer is only a masterwork of design if the judge is hitler
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Tracer is only a masterwork of design if the judge is hitler my entire design philosophy when it comes to videogames is built around "what would feel awesome to do to other people, and horrible when it happens to you? do that, then balance it, and if balance took away the hatefulness then start again" i mean, you're in luck, what i just described is the exact opposite of what Blizzard does and it's probably why they have a fanbase of millions instead of 10 dudes on a server in France who are all on a first-name basis but i will continue to enjoy Tracer
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
reinhardt is the same speed as everyone but tracer and genji, who are only a little faster than the others ask a lucio to speed boost you if you gotta go fast
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Who's good against Zarya? She poops all over the people I like playing
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
TheTatteredKing posted:Who's good against Zarya? She poops all over the people I like playing Reaper and Roadhog kill her, Reinhardt pretty effectively shuts her down pretty well and brawls her well if she hasn't energied up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
TheTatteredKing posted:Who's good against Zarya? She poops all over the people I like playing Reaper just straight up outdamages her and Tracer can keep away from grenades or hide while she has shield up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 22:23 |
|
|
reaper can kill her pretty easy by himself but honestly it all depends on how stupid you team is. if they insist on shooting at the shield, you're gonna have a bad time. mei can freeze her and then take her out with headshots. you could also just snipe her I don't think zarya has any hard counters tho
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 00:06
|
|