Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: The Doctor artfully dodges through the pitfalls of a Bootstraps Paradox

Long Synopsis: Young Thomas Brewster barely remembers his mother, but still keenly pursues her shade as it directs him through a life of crime culminating in the theft of the TARDIS. The Doctor and Nyssa hunt him through the streets and decades of Victorian London, attempting to save their future and salvage his past.

What's Good:
  • The radio-drama feel. Especially in the first episode, the entire story has a neat old-fashioned radio-drama feel. Brewster's narration and the cliffhanger ending/final line to episode 1 are a great set-up that stands apart from the general feel of Big Finish audios. Though the narration is abandoned from that point the story retains that Dickens-esque feel, with the Doctor very much playing the eccentric Victorian Gentleman scientist ("I only tell them what they already know.... must be why I'm so popular") working with his valiant assistant to race around London attempting to solve a crime. The supporting characters are straight out of Dickens - a raspy drunk uncle, disapproving aunts, the cruel school master, the heartless money-hungry common crook ruling over his own little fiefdom, even Thomas' best friend seems to fit right in. Listening to the whole thing took me back to my childhood listening to drama serials on the radio or tape - I found that very appealing personally but if you don't have the same nostalgia factor the older format may feel a little weird.

  • The Doctor's competence. As usual for the Davison era, the Doctor is completely out of his element/swept away by events, but what makes it work is that he handles it all so smoothly/takes it all in stride. Where sometimes Davison's Doctor could feel like he was in over his head (which could have its own charm), in this story it's a nice change of pace to find him absolutely in control of himself if not the situation he's in. The way he calmly assesses and handles the crises as they unfold is well written and acted, and there is great satisfaction to be had in the way he continually manages to adapt and change. Reversing the rather bizarre situation seen in The Kingmaker, it is the Doctor who spends a year slowboating his way through time to get to where Nyssa has instantly arrived, and he uses the time well to ingratiate himself into London society (and even grow a beard!). When he grasps the nature of the bootstrap paradox they are dealing with, the quick way he comes up with a solution feels earned. When he finds himself in a very troubling situation involving the TARDIS, his solution is elegant and sensible and provides a simple solution to a complicated problem - exactly the say a Time Lord should be able to deal with odd temporal concerns. The Doctor here is effortlessly competent without undercutting the drama of the situations they're in, he isn't smugly just solving everything but using his intellect and common sense to deal with difficult issues as they arise. It's.... nice.

  • Robert McIntosh. In a story that introduces a new companion for the 5th Doctor, I would have had no problem with Robert McIntosh played by Christian Coulson (the young Tom Riddle in the second Harry Potter film) being that companion. McIntosh is played as an earnest if somewhat repressed young man (well it IS Victorian London!) who is the Doctor's keen and willing assistant right up until the moment he discovers the Doctor has been hiding the truth from him, and his hurt reaction feels genuine if a little misplaced. As far as he is concerned the Doctor used him and condescended to him by not feeling he was worthy/capable of knowing the truth. And yet despite his offense and hurt pride, the moment danger rears its head and threatens the Doctor and Nyssa he doesn't hesitate for a moment to stand up to try and defend them. He is a worthy man limited only by his lack of exposure to the new and weird ideas that the Doctor and Nyssa by now take for granted, and I wouldn't have minded seeing him stick around a bit more to serve as a foil to their easy acceptance of the fantastic. Also his part in the,"You had me up till bootstraps" joke is great.

  • Peter Davison's enthusiasm. Davison's performances seem to match up with the general quality of the script - or rather, HIS take on the general quality of the script. If he likes what he is reading then his performance lifts, if he doesn't like it then he seems to go through the motions. In this story, for whatever issues I might have with the writing I can't deny Davison's enthusiasm. He bites into the script with relish and won't let go, and it lifts the overall quality of the final product as a result. There's one particularly great scene where he asked Nyssa to explain a complicated concept... then immediately takes over when she has barely started to explain. This wasn't scripted, but rather emerged naturally during the production when Davison - clearly having a great time - suggested that in his absentminded enthusiasm the Doctor would be unable to resist waxing lyrical on the subject even after passing it over to Nyssa to explain. Essentially he steals her line, but it is so smoothly handled and fits in so nicely with his character that it works. Listening to the behind-the-scenes footage, you can tell there was a great deal of fun for the cast in making this story, and it comes across in the final product.
What's Not:
  • The Mother. The "villain" of the piece has a lot of potential, but she's so rarely used and the explanation of what she is doesn't really hold up even with the Doctor's smooth explanations. While that's kinda understandable given we're dealing with a paradox, the potential horror of what she is meant to be (the waterlogged corpse of his mother who committed suicide when he was 4 years old) never really comes across outside of one EXCELLENT closing line at the end of episode one ("She'd been in the water for five days...."). Mostly heard as a disembodied voice, almost everything she says is designed to keep Thomas Brewster in line and she never really throws off the character, and a final conversation between the two feels like a cop-out as opposed to the feel-good moment it is intended to be.

  • The paper-thin supporting characters. Even though their generic nature fits in with the radio-drama/Dickens serial feel, the characters themselves mostly don't have anything to add depth to their generic templates. They come and go without any real impact, the only character that really gets any solidity to them is Brewster's partner in crime, whose friendship runs deeper than Brewster realizes or Victorian London would allow, and then he's quickly gone from the story.

  • The bizarre musical interludes. Though I like the radio-drama feel, the story unfortunately fills a lot of space with musical interludes that feel more like padding. It doesn't help that it isn't very good, and it's the one musical piece repeated over and over and over and over and over and over again.

  • Who is Thomas Brewster? The titular character gets a LOT of "screen"time which is necessary, especially since this is the first of a number of stories to feature him, but while it does make him an interesting character for THIS story it does a poor job of selling the idea that he should be somebody the listener wants to hear more from. Brewster is quiet, unimaginative, easily manipulated and seems to lack any real moral compass. The ideas was supposedly to create a character more in keeping with the original IDEA for Adric - an Artful Dodger type who continually does the wrong thing/doesn't keep in line with society's ideas of right and wrong. But where Adric ended up nerdy and often frustratingly naive, Brewster goes too far in the other direction by being almost entirely self-interested without any of the charm and charisma (on display at least) that made Dickens' Artful Dodger compelling. Brewster is kind of a sad sack, a miserable loner who never does anything to warrant characters apparent interest/concern for him, stubborn to a fault and stupidly reckless with no impulse control. His final action of the story makes for a good cliffhanger ending, but doesn't really fill me with anticipation to see him appear in another story like we know he would. All that said, the actor - John Pickard - used to be in the absolutely wonderful 2point4 Children so I gotta give him another chance based on that alone!
Final Thoughts:

The Haunting of Thomas Brewster is a fun experimental piece that plays around with Big Finish's usual scripted format with a more traditional radio-drama feel. The obvious Dickens-inspired feel works well, both in the all-narration first episode and the more "standard" following ones. But while Davison is enthusiastic and his Doctor comes across as smoothly competent in a wonderfully bizarre situation (beings from the future bootstrapping themselves into existence by going into the past to ensure their future comes about so they can go into the past to ensure their future comes about to....), the thin supporting characters and the frustrating (and often unlikable) titular character don't offer any substance to the style. The way the first and fourth episode share territory is a neat idea (the writer worked on Flip-Flop, which played with this concept on a far grander scale) and the story has a lot of interesting ideas and potential. But it doesn't really realize any of it, and while the final cliffhanger is strong it only really works if Brewster is interesting enough as a character to make the listener want more. For me it didn't quite do that, but with any luck any future appearances will realize the potential that is there.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jun 23, 2016

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
You're ahead of me!

I'm halfway through and agree with the musical interludes. They're happening way more often than they should. But I am enjoying the ghost/sci-fi mix so far, feels very old school.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS
For people with BBC iPlayer access:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009szrh/episodes/player

The beeb currently have the 6th doctor audios The Crimes of Thomas Brewster and Industrial Evolution available to listen to in full. I like them both but I'm fairly easily pleased when it comes to Six.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Fil5000 posted:

6th doctor .... Thomas Brewster

That Colin Baker just goes around stealing EVERYBODY'S companions, doesn't he!

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Jerusalem posted:

That Colin Baker just goes around stealing EVERYBODY'S companions, doesn't he!

Steals?

STEALS?!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

So this is why he gave me that stinkeye all those years ago, he knew that one day he'd have to choke me to death :ohdear:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Jerusalem posted:

So this is why he gave me that stinkeye all those years ago, he knew that one day he'd have to choke me to death :ohdear:

I KNEW IT! I knew you were a companion all this time!!!

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



I just ordered "The Curse of Peladon" sight-unseen, since I found it for $7. How good/bad is it?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I just ordered "The Curse of Peladon" sight-unseen, since I found it for $7. How good/bad is it?

Giant Penis Monster.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
It's not so good

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

MrL_JaKiri posted:

It's not so good

LIES. Don't listen to this jerk.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.

Rhyno posted:

Giant Penis Monster.

What is it with Who and penis monsters?

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Rhyno posted:

Giant Penis Monster.

Yes. Yes.

Paused
Oct 24, 2010

Jerusalem posted:

The Doctor artfully dodges through the pitfalls of a Bootstraps Paradox

A what Paradox? Maybe someone should explain this, including anecdotes.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Paused posted:

A what Paradox? Maybe someone should explain this, including anecdotes.

Cobi, explain.

CobiWann posted:

In a quantum univer-

In a quantum universe every future reality is possible but the closer you get to it the more narrow the potential for the actual reality becomes. So by traveling back from one possible future to create the conditions in the past, you can essentially pull your reality up by the bootstraps and ensure that your future is the one that takes place, thus enabling you to go back in time to set up those conditions to ensure your future takes place! It's really very simple!

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Jerusalem posted:

Cobi, explain.


In a quantum universe every future reality is possible but the closer you get to it the more narrow the potential for the actual reality becomes. So by traveling back from one possible future to create the conditions in the past, you can essentially pull your reality up by the bootstraps and ensure that your future is the one that takes place, thus enabling you to go back in time to set up those conditions to ensure your future takes place! It's really very simple!

:golfclap:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The Curse of Peladon isn't great but I'll always appreciate it for what it does with the Ice Warriors. Also taking into account the time in which it was produced, it was actually quite fun to see the 3rd Doctor get away from Earth and back out into space.

Edit: Also it's oddly topical since it was arguably a mirror of the political issues of the time when Britain was considering joining the European Union, which today they're currently arguing about whether or not to leave.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jun 23, 2016

Stabbatical
Sep 15, 2011

Jerusalem posted:

The Curse of Peladon isn't great but I'll always appreciate it for what it does with the Ice Warriors. Also taking into account the time in which it was produced, it was actually quite fun to see the 3rd Doctor get away from Earth and back out into space.

Edit: Also it's oddly topical since it was arguably a mirror of the political issues of the time when Britain was considering joining the European Union, which today they're currently arguing about whether or not to leave.

Did any of the RTD or Moffat episodes (and if either did, it'll probably be RTD) set in the future make mention of the EU or Britain being in it? They might be quite dated now. :ohdear:

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
The Curse of Peladon is an absolute blast. Never watch/listen to the other stories with Peladon in the title.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Stabbatical posted:

Did any of the RTD or Moffat episodes (and if either did, it'll probably be RTD) set in the future make mention of the EU or Britain being in it? They might be quite dated now. :ohdear:
Wasn't the whole UK an asteroid?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

LividLiquid posted:

Wasn't the whole UK an asteroid?

Scotland had actually separated and gone off to do their own thing!

Well Manicured Man
Aug 21, 2010

Well Manicured Mort

LividLiquid posted:

Wasn't the whole UK an asteroid?

It was a starship built on top of a space whale, and Scotland had its own ship.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Rhyno posted:

Giant Penis Monster.

People always talk about how ridiculous it looks, which is unfair given it's also hilariously silly to listen to.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
If you're in the US and looking to fill in the gaps in your dvd collection, now would be an excellent time to place an order from amazon.co.uk.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Ugh, what a morning. This isn't what the Doctor would want! :smith:

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.
Colin Baker for PM

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Colin Baker for PM

Two blond fatsos with bad hair in the election race?

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

The_Doctor posted:

Two blond fatsos with bad hair in the election race?

Just ride that crazy train all the way down, man


Also, you never responded to my email re: the Defiant model. Just a heads up.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
So more The Fearmonger or LIVE 34 out there today?

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

It's more of a Dalek Empire situation. I assume humans won that eventually. I never finished the season with Mickey actor.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

adhuin posted:

It's more of a Dalek Empire situation. I assume humans won that eventually. I never finished the season with Mickey actor.

Given that everything I know about UK politics I learned from the Political Cartoon thread, the Lovecraftian nightmare comparison seems appropriate.

Chairman Mao
Apr 24, 2004

The Chinese Communist Party is the core of leadership of the whole Chinese people. Without this core, the cause of socialism cannot be victorious.
Holy crap the 10th Doctor box from Big Finish is good, like, really good. The first and third are absolutely exceptional, grabbing the tone of the show and characters perfectly. The dialogue between 10 and Donna is sharp and clever, the stories are interesting, the pacing (something Big Finish struggles with constantly) actually works, none of the episodes feel rushed or padded. The second one I didn't quite like as much but I definitely appreciated the effort in trying to write a story that not only features the 10th Doctor on a totally alien world, but one that manages to base its central dilemma around an issue unique to the species inhabiting it.

I also loved the story in the interviews where David Tennant had already just assumed he would be in Big Finish audios before they even asked him.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Doctor Spaceman posted:

People always talk about how ridiculous it looks, which is unfair given it's also hilariously silly to listen to.








Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
My point is that even if you took away its ridiculous appearance you'd have a memorably silly character.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


The best thing about the Doctor Who penis monster is that when someone mentions it, you have to go "which one?" :allears:

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?
Well there's the one that looks EXACTLY like a penis, featured above, and then there's the one from that cave that very much HAD a penis, and whose penis Tom Baker very much fellated.

Oh and the half-dalek.

Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007

DoctorWhat posted:

EXACTLY like a penis

Please see a doctor.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
Don't forget on the other end of the scale we had the Vulvoids Vervoids.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

DoctorWhat posted:

EXACTLY like a penis

Diabolik900 posted:

Please see a doctor.


I wish this thread had a "like" button.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BSam
Nov 24, 2012

I listened to the first episode of the big finish churchill set, it was pretty great, now i'm watching rose, really wish ecclestone would do an audio or two.

  • Locked thread