Total War: Warhammer - We let the intern name this game

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President Ark: May 16, 2010

peer posted:

In other words it's Super Badass Anime Crap for nerds. Plus there's already a mod with some pretty good looking ones!

i never said the fans have good taste

# ? Jun 24, 2016 16:50

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:07

Tardcore: Jan 24, 2011; Not cool enough for the Spider-man club.

I'm hoping for the mortis engine, the blood knights can wait until the Mousillon DLC.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 16:51

rockopete: Jan 19, 2005

President Ark posted:

if it's a VC unit then it's almost certainly blood dragons, they're a fan favorite

for those not aware of the story behind them, blood dragons are one of the vampire bloodlines descended from a warrior who just wanted to have honorable fights and wasn't into becoming a vampire but got tricked into it; he became a hermit who only turned people very rarely until he discovered something - after killing a dragon in single combat and drinking its blood he was cured of all the negative parts of being a vampire. i think the lore has waffled on whether it's just a really amazing fight that enables blood dragons to shake off the bad parts of vampire or killing and drinking a dragon's blood specifically, but they're this whole order of black knights who just want to have good fights.

Their code also requires that they only drink the blood of great warriors, no random townsfolk, and iirc in tabletop their deal was no spells but excellent fighters. I'd like to see the Lahmians (non-melee casters and seducers, mostly female) and the Strigoi (not-quite-varghulf/gheist wild, regressed vampires who can't pass for humans but are vicious in melee) back in some form, too. Not necessarily soon but in general. I liked the different flavors it allowed for VC.

I vividly remember a White Dwarf story when the current steam tank was reintroduced in the early 2000s about a strigos ripping the hull plates off a tank sent to deal with its predations, but eventually succumbing to the relentless machine. Man they had some solid writers back in the day.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 17:17

Klaus88: Jan 23, 2011; Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment

It should be noted that the blood dragons are not "nice" vampires, since they'll murder an entire town of random people just to brush up their sword work. They're just picky about who they drink blood from.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 17:36

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

Finally got my Dwarf campaign short victory last night on like turn 225 because I'm Utter Garbage. Gonna do a whole bunch more turns tonight to get the long victory - all I'm waiting on now (turn 250+) is a level 15 engineer to clear out my grudge book. That's turning out to be slightly more difficult than expected because I've only got one engineer, he's level 12, and the only people I have left on the map to fight are the Varg and Skaeling, who don't have a whole lot of stuff left (which is rapidly withering under the two Bret stacks faffing aroudn up north).

I'm going to do an Empire campaign next, what should I expect as far as radical gameplay changes?

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:07

Mazz: Dec 12, 2012; Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.

ChickenWing posted:

Finally got my Dwarf campaign short victory last night on like turn 225 because I'm Utter Garbage. Gonna do a whole bunch more turns tonight to get the long victory - all I'm waiting on now (turn 250+) is a level 15 engineer to clear out my grudge book. That's turning out to be slightly more difficult than expected because I've only got one engineer, he's level 12, and the only people I have left on the map to fight are the Varg and Skaeling, who don't have a whole lot of stuff left (which is rapidly withering under the two Bret stacks faffing aroudn up north).

I'm going to do an Empire campaign next, what should I expect as far as radical gameplay changes?

You get attacked from all 4 directions and your crossbowmen don't do nearly the same amount of work. You get cab and Steam tanks though.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:09

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

ChickenWing posted:

Finally got my Dwarf campaign short victory last night on like turn 225 because I'm Utter Garbage. Gonna do a whole bunch more turns tonight to get the long victory - all I'm waiting on now (turn 250+) is a level 15 engineer to clear out my grudge book. That's turning out to be slightly more difficult than expected because I've only got one engineer, he's level 12, and the only people I have left on the map to fight are the Varg and Skaeling, who don't have a whole lot of stuff left (which is rapidly withering under the two Bret stacks faffing aroudn up north).

I'm going to do an Empire campaign next, what should I expect as far as radical gameplay changes?

Well, you've have cavalry for one. You can't just depend on your melee line to hold forever while your ranged murders everything, you'll have to do some micro to get those rear charges. You get a bunch of flavors of wizard, but only the Light Wizard is any good.

You get Demigriffs though, so everything's fine. Speaking of which:

peer posted:

In other words it's Super Badass Anime Crap for nerds. Plus there's already a mod with some pretty good looking ones!

If Blood Dragons don't poo poo all over Demifgriffs, they're not doing them right.

wiegieman fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jun 24, 2016

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:10

Draynar: Apr 22, 2008

Kaza42 posted:

Here's my Empire Tips

1) Get Marienburg. Sounds like you already did this, but if not get them. Good trade resources, and a unique dock worth all the money.
2) Fancy Clothes. The Empire's generic income building is pretty good, every city and village should have one.
3)If you can spare the effort, conquer Bretonnia. They're weak and tend to lose to Estalia in the long run anyway, but they have a bunch of port towns which are worth a lot of money
4)Don't confederate too often. It makes you vulnerable, makes everyone hate you, tanks your public order and the army you take over almost always sucks and should be disbanded

For the military side of things, your lords have two fantastic red skills: Honest Steel and Pistolkorps. Honest Steel gives all of your 1-turn melee infantry a good boost that lets them punch way above their pay grade. Pistolkorps gives a damage bonus to all ranged infantry, which you should have.
In the mid game, your army composition is going to depend on which buildings you built. It's possible to get Reikland to produce everything, but that will delay getting all the major army buildings. Here's my rundown of what I consider Mid-Game available units

Handgunners: These guys are amazing, although their direct fire is limiting somewhat. Form a checkerboard formation and they will devastate just about anything. They are almost always better than Crossbows, except against savage orcs and marauder horsemen.
Halberdiers: Especially once you get Honest Steel 3, Halberdiers will be your workhorse all game. Well armored, good damage, armor piercing, anti large, charge defense, they got it. Weak to missiles, but worth it nonetheless.
Spearmen: Don't bother. Get Halberds wherever you can afford them
Crossbows: If you're fighting low-tier orcs or norscans, these guys are good. Otherwise, get Handgunners.
Swordsmen: A solid unit, especially with honest steel. I tend to replace them with greatswords later on, but Swordsmen are still durable, shielded and good in a fight.
Greatswords: You may not have these by midgame, depending on what building order you're going with. A great offensive unit, they have good damage, good charge and good armor. They lose to missiles, but carve up most other things. Use these guys against infantry and halberds against cavalry/monsters
Outrider and Pistoliers: Almost always terrible. If you can micro them good and you aren't fighting norscans (who WILL catch you, they have stupid fast speed) outriders can be pretty good, but are still probably not worth it
Empire Knights: I'm not a huge fan, but I'm not a big cavalry guy. These are good heavy cavalry units though, so take them if you have the option and aren't terrible at cavalry micro.
Mortars: Fantastic against vampire counts, who tend to bring swarms of chaff even into the mid-late game. They're also good at siege defense, if you can se up your walls to clump up the enemy without risking hitting your own men
Cannons: Good on the field, especially in a checkerboard. I'm not sure how much better they really are than mortars, but it's so much fun to fire these in first person mode at point blank range, so I always take two

My Midgame Armies: General, 2 Cannons, 2 Mortars, 5 Handgunners, 6 Halberdiers, 4 Swordsmen/Greatswords

Later game units
Steam Tanks - The best artillery, bar none, full stop. Super well armored, capable of firing at long range for more dps than a cannon. Able to fight off swarms of enemies in melee. Even has a tiny turret steamgun to get that bit of extra damage in. I like at least 3.
Luminark - Pretty disappointing overall. Good single target damage, but way too low of a rate of fire. It can fire over infantry easily though, and has a nice aura. Worth taking one if you play defensively, but not a big deal
Demigryphs - God tier units, currently OP. Get the halberd version, either one will wreck infantry and these will also wreck everything else. It's hard to take too many of these
Reiksguard - Don't bother, get Demigryphs
Hellstorm Rockets - Some people swear by them, I've never had one do more damage to the enemy than my own army. Stick to steam tanks and cannons
Hellblaster - Not that great. It can get some good single target damage at close range, but handgunners will probably do better. Suffers from not being a steam tank.

My Lategame Armies: General, 3 Steam Tanks, Luminark, 2 Cannons, 4 Handgunners, 4 Halberdiers, 5 Demigryphs

Heroes:
Bright Wizard: Actually pretty good. It's got some good buffs, especially if you overcast for AoE. Fireball is its only good damage spell, but it's a doozy
Light Wizard: Probably your best wizard. Good singlet target starter spell, the Net spell can either shut down loving MARAUDER HORSEMEN or buy you an extra couple volleys by pinning down the entire center of the enemy army just before they close with your gun line
Celestial Wizard: Not impressed. Its buffs are okay, its damage sucks, its passive is the worst in the game. If you get one of these, train it as an agent, not a hero.
Captains: Are.. okay. Solid fighting stats, and they can get a pegasus by level 9 which isn't bad. They can also get Hold the Line, which is a nice buff if you time it right, especially for halberdiers
Warpriest: Start off as shittier Captains, end up as gods. Seriously, they get so many self-activated and aoe buffs that they can turn into slaughter fests with a few levels on them. Don't bother with the horse, leave them on foot.
Witch Hunter: Really good ranged units, especially at shorter range. If you actually look, they tend to kill 3-6 enemies per bullet, which is mad skills. Accusation is also one of the best hero/lord sniping abilities out there. They're also great agents, you will never have enough of these guys

Lords:
Generals of the Empire should go down the red path right away, especially Honest Steel and Pistolkorps. Divert to get the griffon when you can. Late game, they can give steam tanks and demigryphs ward saves, which is fantastic
Karl Franz should probably also go down the red path. He's gonna be super killy with Deathclaw anyway, so you'll probably get better mileage out of making your infantry not suck
Balthasar Gelt sucks for the most part (unless you get a magic mod, then he's great! I like Molay's but opinions are divided there). He's got a few good spells, and Final Transmutation is good at sniping lords who aren't near their armies (read: none of them). Transmutation of Lead and Plague of Rust are pretty good debuffs overall.

Thanks this was all super helpful! Think after I take out Vampire counters with 2 armies ill retreat them and rebuild different. Think my starting issue was i didn't know what to reserach for mid/late tier so kinda was all over the place and ended up with nothing.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:28

Yukitsu: Oct 11, 2012; Snow=Yuki
Fox=Kitsune
Snow Fox=Yukitsu, ne?

President Ark posted:

for those not aware of the story behind them, blood dragons are one of the vampire bloodlines descended from a warrior who just wanted to have honorable fights and wasn't into becoming a vampire but got tricked into it; he became a hermit who only turned people very rarely until he discovered something - after killing a dragon in single combat and drinking its blood he was cured of all the negative parts of being a vampire. i think the lore has waffled on whether it's just a really amazing fight that enables blood dragons to shake off the bad parts of vampire or killing and drinking a dragon's blood specifically, but they're this whole order of black knights who just want to have good fights.

Pretty sure it's dragon blood since Zacharius the everliving has the same traits as Abhorash last I checked. I think that in universe a ton of his followers believe they can become like their leader just by doing sit ups all day.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:33

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

terrorist ambulance posted:

Are you actually losing or just quitting early because it's not going as well as you'd like

Chaos has insane legendary lords, very strong regular units, and no real fail state short of losing every single horde. You have access to the hardest infantry in the game AND lore of death on both heros and lords. How are you losing? What difficulty?

First two times i was just dumb but the other times i basically lost after myy weakest horde gets surprised by Kislev or the Dwarves and wacked while the Skaeling, who twice now blob up the entire viking land, send three waves in a round versus my unitary horde.

I'm trying them out again, this time i will sack around and develop my first horde properly and only after getting decent amounts of favour will i create the second horde. Then i'll move the top tier army to Siggie while Kholek creates a brand new kickass army.

The main reason i "lose" is that i get too much attrition from rampaging around in overconfidence until i'm surrounded and smashed by the AI :smith:

President Ark posted:

what lord are you starting with, because if you're starting with archaon he has the weakest start of the three. sigvald starts with a hellcannon for actual ranged support and kholek starts with a unit of dragon ogres + is an early combat monster so you have a ready-made hitsquad for loving up key units.

meanwhile archaon just starts with more chaos warriors which is like, that's cool and all, but who really gives a poo poo having an extra couple units of tough infantry really isn't what makes or breaks early fights

Three times with Archaon, after realizing how easy Sigvald is to get i decided not to start with him and seeing how hard Kholek is i decided to do my ***totally realz not for pratice run*** with Kholek.

I'm pretty sure Kholek is part-Orc 'cause he's dead 'ard, goddamn.

What do you guys suggest as course of action? Liberate the Bjornings (?), destroy the dwarves ASAP and then go to Kislev instead of north?

# ? Jun 24, 2016 18:45

Sjonnar: Oct 22, 2011

Kaza42 posted:

Final Transmutation is good at sniping lords who aren't near their armies (read: none of them)

Final Transmutation doesn't spread its damage across all affected units, it spreads its damage across all models in each unit affected. It will do full damage to each unit in the AOE.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:05

madmac: Jun 22, 2010

Yeah, Overcasted* Final Transmutation is actually quite potent, it just costs a shitload of mana.

*The overcast part is important, it's a pretty drastic upgrade over the normal version.

madmac fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 24, 2016

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:20

rockopete: Jan 19, 2005

Are halberdiers confirmed to benefit from honest steel? The tooltip only says 'swordsmen and spearmen' iirc.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:28

Reik: Mar 8, 2004

I know when you concede a battle it somehow plays out the rest of the fight instead of just sacrificing your remaining troops, so it must figure out how many make it out alive and such. Why can't we have that same option in addition to end battle? You can either end it and let them flee for some kind of diplomacy bonus or end it and they'll auto calculate how many guys you could've killed before they get off the battlefield. Kind of like execute vs release captives.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:30

Kaza42: Oct 3, 2013; Blood and Souls and all that

Sjonnar posted:

Final Transmutation doesn't spread its damage across all affected units, it spreads its damage across all models in each unit affected. It will do full damage to each unit in the AOE.

Really? I thought it worked that way at first, but could have sworn someone did a test that showed the other way around. If so, then FT is great.

rockopete posted:

Are halberdiers confirmed to benefit from honest steel? The tooltip only says 'swordsmen and spearmen' iirc.

Tooltip mentions Halberdiers for me

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:32

President Ark: May 16, 2010

Mans posted:

Three times with Archaon, after realizing how easy Sigvald is to get i decided not to start with him and seeing how hard Kholek is i decided to do my ***totally realz not for pratice run*** with Kholek.

I'm pretty sure Kholek is part-Orc 'cause he's dead 'ard, goddamn.

What do you guys suggest as course of action? Liberate the Bjornings (?), destroy the dwarves ASAP and then go to Kislev instead of north?

turn 1: move to just under ~~50%~~ e: 75% apparently, recruit a second lord, recruit a unit of dogs and of marauder cav.

second lord should encamp where he is, recruit 2 dogs ~4 marauder cav and ~6 marauder infantry

your main army, meanwhile, should move towards the bearsonlings each turn using ~~49%~~ 74% of their move, then encamping (hold RMB and keep an eye on your movement gauge to move precisely), and recruiting 2x marauders. once you're at the camp, sack it, encamp and recruit more, then break camp and attack again, awakening them. some people say you should attack them again and subjugate them so they don't declare on each other but you can skip that with the bearsonlings since they're isolated and it'll be a while before you get a second awaken anyway.

once that's done, keep moving up to the second varg city nearby; if your army is full now you can either go at full speed or raid instead of encamping; if you're not at 20/20 keep doing break camp -> move -> encamp -> recruit and if your units are wounded still encamp so you can get back up to 100%. once you're there do the same sack -> encamp -> attack again sequence (razing it this time). put any lord levels you get into 1) blue talents until you get horde growth, 2) personal combat stuff, especially more toughness for kholek. if you get level 2 camp buildings and you lose dogs replace them with poison dogs; otherwise don't touch them until after the dwarves are dealt with.

by now your second army should be finished the initial recruitment; move it up to the pass between the bearsonlings and north kislev and just recruit marauder infantry until it's full. once it is have them move into north kislev focusing on raiding, soft targets, and getting XP for the lord. for this one get yellow talents instead of personal combat once you have level 3 horde growth (unless it's a wizard in which case getting some spells is worth considering). have them move west skirting the border. don't attack any provincal capitals.

your main army should now be at the gates of the dwarf city. the dwarf army will probably show up at this point; if you're on turn ~7-10 this is good and they shouldn't be at 20/20 yet. attack them.

for your army your army should look something like:

-1: all your infantry. chaos warriors with shields should be on the flanks and your great weapon chaos warriors in the middle. lock group and alt-move so they stay in roughly this formation.
-2: marauder cav vanguard deployed into the furthest forward forest you can manage (make sure they're hidden). keep them in skirmish mode for now.
-3: kholek, the dragon ogres, and the dogs on the opposite flank from where the marauder cav are.

when battle starts, pause, move your infantry block up towards the dwarf block and kholek's mob up the side with them, then unpause and see what the dwarves do. if they stay put have the marauder cav move towards their rear (stay away from them and try to remain in the woods/keep woods between you if possible); if the dwarf infantry block advances keep the cav where it is (unless they're in the dwarf infantry's path in which case get out of their way)

once the fighting starts:

group 1: alt-right-click on the center of the dwarf army so they stay in rough formation; have the great weapon guys kill any infantry around their general and the warriors should try to get flank attacks. if you're full up on marauders the marauders should be taking everything on the chin leaving the warriors to get good flank angles. if the dwarves are feeling particularly stupid they'll have some infantry sit back because they saw the kholek/marauder cav flank groups; if they do, have one of the chaos warrior shield groups go after them.
group 2: go for the ranged blocks. if you can get a clear angle on the siege weapons take them out of skirmish, put them into melee mode, and charge the siege weapons. if/when you break the siege weapon crews if they're good on morale have them melee charged the rest of the dwarf ranged block. if they kept some melee back keep them in skirmish mode.
group 3: charge the ranged block as a group until you get stuck in then have kholek break off and murder the enemy general. if the halbrediers did their job he should have a path to him. you want kholek with them for the initial charge for extra damage and so the dogs don't break early. if they're extremely stupid their general is in the ranged group in which case the dragon ogres + kholek can murder the poo poo out of him and then go rampaging through their infantry.

at this point you should be in good shape, just keep an eye on the dogs and marauder cav because they tend to panic then regroup a lot. just keep throwing them back at the ranged guys so the dwarves can't unload on you.

if/when you beat them: sack the city, sacrifice if you get the option, encamp if you can for the healing and merge marauder infantry and dogs, then raze the city next turn. if the dwarf army lived and is in decent shape and went north go west and sack the dwarf city over there, if they go west go north and sack their capital. if the army is sufficiently weakened and went west your second army (who should be in the area by now) might be able to kill them (use similar tactics); if they go north and are weak chase them with your main army and have your second army sack their other city.

if you get a free hero roll him into your army; if it's a wizard have him trail the infantry block and support them; if it's a melee dude give him a horse and combat skills and have him roll with group 3.

keep merging dogs and marauder infantry to heal them; once you get chaos warriors start phasing out the marauder infantry in favor of them.

once the dwarves are dealt with you should be in good shape to take it from there. personal recommendation is to go kill the varg/skraelings for XP, sigvald's requirement, and because they're really loving annoying if you don't. after awakening a city in each province attack them again and subjugate them for more XP and so they don't waste a bunch of time attacking each other.

e: one last thing - if the skraelings/varg pin down one of your armies and the other can't get there in time to support them, sue for peace. you'll probably have to bribe them but it's a lot better to lose a few thousand favor than all of a lord's experience and a bunch of units it took you 10 turns and a lot more than 2000 favor recruiting. if they attack and it's looking bad, don't retreat; take the fight, do as much damage as you can as fast as you can to their infantry core and kill their lord, then set all your units to retreat - you want to tilt the odds so that they don't want to attack you a second time (which is when the horde's actually at risk of dying).

President Ark fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jun 24, 2016

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:35

madmac: Jun 22, 2010

Kaza42 posted:

Really? I thought it worked that way at first, but could have sworn someone did a test that showed the other way around. If so, then FT is great.

Tooltip mentions Halberdiers for me

Halbediers get Honest Steel, yes. It's why it's better than most of the other races basic infantry buff, it applies to units you'll actually be using all game.

Also, did a quick test of Final Transmutation and yes, spell loving owns. ~1600 damage each to four different infantry units and the General off a single overcast.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 19:39

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

President Ark posted:

turn 1: move to just under 50%, recruit a second lord, recruit a unit of dogs and of marauder cav.

second lord should encamp where he is, recruit 2 dogs ~4 marauder cav and ~6 marauder infantry

your main army, meanwhile, should move towards the bearsonlings each turn using 49% of their move, then encamping (hold RMB and keep an eye on your movement gauge to move precisely), and recruiting 2x marauders. once you're at the camp, sack it, encamp and recruit more, then break camp and attack again, awakening them. some people say you should attack them again and subjugate them so they don't declare on each other but you can skip that with the bearsonlings since they're isolated and it'll be a while before you get a second awaken anyway.

once that's done, keep moving up to the second varg city nearby; if your army is full now you can either go at full speed or raid instead of encamping; if you're not at 20/20 keep doing break camp -> move -> encamp -> recruit and if your units are wounded still encamp so you can get back up to 100%. once you're there do the same sack -> encamp -> attack again sequence (razing it this time). put any lord levels you get into 1) blue talents until you get horde growth, 2) personal combat stuff, especially more toughness for kholek. if you get level 2 camp buildings and you lose dogs replace them with poison dogs; otherwise don't touch them until after the dwarves are dealt with.

by now your second army should be finished the initial recruitment; move it up to the pass between the bearsonlings and north kislev and just recruit marauder infantry until it's full. once it is have them move into north kislev focusing on raiding, soft targets, and getting XP for the lord. for this one get yellow talents instead of personal combat once you have level 3 horde growth (unless it's a wizard in which case getting some spells is worth considering). have them move west skirting the border. don't attack any provincal capitals.

your main army should now be at the gates of the dwarf city. the dwarf army will probably show up at this point; if you're on turn ~7-10 this is good and they shouldn't be at 20/20 yet. attack them.

for your army your army should look something like:

-1: all your infantry. chaos warriors with shields should be on the flanks and your great weapon chaos warriors in the middle. lock group and alt-move so they stay in roughly this formation.
-2: marauder cav vanguard deployed into the furthest forward forest you can manage (make sure they're hidden). keep them in skirmish mode for now.
-3: kholek, the dragon ogres, and the dogs on the opposite flank from where the marauder cav are.

when battle starts, pause, move your infantry block up towards the dwarf block and kholek's mob up the side with them, then unpause and see what the dwarves do. if they stay put have the marauder cav move towards their rear (stay away from them and try to remain in the woods/keep woods between you if possible); if the dwarf infantry block advances keep the cav where it is (unless they're in the dwarf infantry's path in which case get out of their way)

once the fighting starts:

group 1: alt-right-click on the center of the dwarf army so they stay in rough formation; have the great weapon guys kill any infantry around their general and the warriors should try to get flank attacks. if you're full up on marauders the marauders should be taking everything on the chin leaving the warriors to get good flank angles. if the dwarves are feeling particularly stupid they'll have some infantry sit back because they saw the kholek/marauder cav flank groups; if they do, have one of the chaos warrior shield groups go after them.
group 2: go for the ranged blocks. if you can get a clear angle on the siege weapons take them out of skirmish, put them into melee mode, and charge the siege weapons. if/when you break the siege weapon crews if they're good on morale have them melee charged the rest of the dwarf ranged block. if they kept some melee back keep them in skirmish mode.
group 3: charge the ranged block as a group until you get stuck in then have kholek break off and murder the enemy general. if the halbrediers did their job he should have a path to him. you want kholek with them for the initial charge for extra damage and so the dogs don't break early.

at this point you should be in good shape, just keep an eye on the dogs and marauder cav because they tend to panic then regroup a lot. just keep throwing them back at the ranged guys so the dwarves can't unload on you.

if/when you beat them: sack the city, sacrifice if you get the option, encamp if you can for the healing and merge marauder infantry and dogs, then raze the city next turn. if the dwarf army lived and is in decent shape and went north go west and sack the dwarf city over there, if they go west go north and sack their capital. if the army is sufficiently weakened and went west your second army (who should be in the area by now) might be able to kill them (use similar tactics); if they go north and are weak chase them with your main army and have your second army sack their other city.

if you get a free hero roll him into your army; if it's a wizard have him trail the infantry block and support them; if it's a melee dude give him a horse and combat skills and have him roll with group 3.

once the dwarves are dealt with you should be in good shape to take it from there. personal recommendation is to go kill the varg/skraelings for XP, sigvald's requirement, and because they're really loving annoying if you don't. after awakening a city in each province attack them again and subjugate them for more XP and so they don't waste a bunch of time attacking each other.

e: one last thing - if the skraelings/varg pin down one of your armies and the other can't get there in time to support them, sue for peace. you'll probably have to bribe them but it's a lot better to lose a few thousand favor than all of a lord's experience and a bunch of units it took you 10 turns and a lot more than 2000 favor recruiting. if they attack and it's looking bad, don't retreat; take the fight, do as much damage as you can as fast as you can to their infantry core and kill their lord, then set all your units to retreat - you want to tilt the odds so that they don't want to attack you a second time (which is when the horde's actually at risk of dying).

Thanks for the tips.

I have to admit though, since i'm an impacient bastard (and i got the day off :v:

) i restarted the chaos campaign immediatly with kholek, only isntead of makign a second horde i rushed for the forsaken building.They're more impressive than i thought, a full line of Forsaken with Kholek, 4 chaos spawn unit and the starting dragon ogre unit leading the frontal charge is ridiculously powerful, not only against dwarves but specially against the low armor of the norscans.

My main difficulty is the second horde part since that's when you get vulnerable and i get prone to mistakes with that army.. I'll follow your recomendatons about diplomacy, sacking and encampment, that's probably what gave me such trouble in the last few tries.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:09

President Ark: May 16, 2010

Mans posted:

Thanks for the tips.

I have to admit though, since i'm an impacient bastard (and i got the day off ) i restarted the chaos campaign immediatly with kholek, only isntead of makign a second horde i rushed for the forsaken building.They're more impressive than i thought, a full line of Forsaken with Kholek, 4 chaos spawn unit and the starting dragon ogre unit leading the frontal charge is ridiculously powerful, not only against dwarves but specially against the low armor of the norscans.

My main difficulty is the second horde part since that's when you get vulnerable and i get prone to mistakes with that army.. I'll follow your recomendatons about diplomacy, sacking and encampment, that's probably what gave me such trouble in the last few tries.

if you're waiting to make a second army then instead of just making it with a fresh lord, kick kholek out of his army, replace him with the new lord, then make the new horde using kholek and transfer the dragon ogres and marauders (but not the chaos warriors) over. that way you get a "new" lord leading an experienced army that can recruit good units sooner and a "new" army led by an experienced lord who can get it in shape faster.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:13

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

President Ark posted:

turn 1: move to just under 50%, recruit a second lord, recruit a unit of dogs and of marauder cav.

second lord should encamp where he is, recruit 2 dogs ~4 marauder cav and ~6 marauder infantry

your main army, meanwhile, should move towards the bearsonlings each turn using 49% of their move, then encamping (hold RMB and keep an eye on your movement gauge to move precisely), and recruiting 2x marauders. once you're at the camp, sack it, encamp and recruit more, then break camp and attack again, awakening them. some people say you should attack them again and subjugate them so they don't declare on each other but you can skip that with the bearsonlings since they're isolated and it'll be a while before you get a second awaken anyway.

You can actually move 75% and encamp as Chaos. 50% is for raid stance, which generally isn't worth it.

It is also viable to bypass baersonling's camp entirely and just attack Kislev, so as to build a relationship with Varg early. You might want to delay your second horde if you do this though - money will be very tight. Sigvald is advised for this.

Your first horde should probably be a spellcaster. Death sorcerer is especially recommended - spirit leach wins battles for you.

I'd say that initially you should aim for one stack with the chaos warrior line, and one stack with the forsaken line. This gives you a hammer and an anvil, and access to all your agents. Start spamming agent actions every turn. The blue line of agent skills are really important to you.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 24, 2016

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:14

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

EDIT: NM! Found a mod that does it already

Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jun 24, 2016

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:50

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

President Ark posted:

if you're waiting to make a second army then instead of just making it with a fresh lord, kick kholek out of his army, replace him with the new lord, then make the new horde using kholek and transfer the dragon ogres and marauders (but not the chaos warriors) over. that way you get a "new" lord leading an experienced army that can recruit good units sooner and a "new" army led by an experienced lord who can get it in shape faster.

That's brilliant :stare:

I'm definitely going to start doing that more.

To unlock Archaeon, do i need to do the option that gives me favor or the one that gives leadership?

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:51

Bogarts: Mar 1, 2009

Favor.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 20:57

Damn Dirty Ape: Jan 23, 2015; I love you Dr. Zaius

Fangz posted:

You can actually move 75% and encamp as Chaos. 50% is for raid stance, which generally isn't worth it.

It is also viable to bypass baersonling's camp entirely and just attack Kislev, so as to build a relationship with Varg early. You might want to delay your second horde if you do this though - money will be very tight. Sigvald is advised for this.

Your first horde should probably be a spellcaster. Death sorcerer is especially recommended - spirit leach wins battles for you.

I'd say that initially you should aim for one stack with the chaos warrior line, and one stack with the forsaken line. This gives you a hammer and an anvil, and access to all your agents. Start spamming agent actions every turn. The blue line of agent skills are really important to you.

Yeah, sorcerers blocking armies is pretty great for playing chaos. Eventually you will want every horde to have the forsaken line because of the large + corruption boost it gives.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:00

madmac: Jun 22, 2010

lol, Darrentw playing VH Radius on stream, entire army gets wiped except Ungrim, puts the game on 2x speed for 10 minutes while Ungrim nearly solos the entire enemy army. "Uh, I don't think I want to play this mod anymore."

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:08

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

madmac posted:

lol, Darrentw playing VH Radius on stream, entire army gets wiped except Ungrim, puts the game on 2x speed for 10 minutes while Ungrim nearly solos the entire enemy army. "Uh, I don't think I want to play this mod anymore."

loving lol

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:13

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Just found out that the Runes the dwarven runiepriest have are incredibly good for loving with Enemy units. Like the one offensive rune they get took half the life off of a full ranked unit of Chaos Knights in the "axe of dargo" quest battle.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:16

Ra Ra Rasputin: Apr 2, 2011

madmac posted:

lol, Darrentw playing VH Radius on stream, entire army gets wiped except Ungrim, puts the game on 2x speed for 10 minutes while Ungrim nearly solos the entire enemy army. "Uh, I don't think I want to play this mod anymore."

That doesn't sound far off from my vanilla experience witha combat lord.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:18

madmac: Jun 22, 2010

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

That doesn't sound far off from my vanilla experience witha combat lord.

Not early game on VH against a full stack, I would hope.

Part of the problem was that the AI kept trying to break off and form into pretty lines while engaging a single unit, which is definitely modded behavior.

quote:

Just found out that the Runes the dwarven runiepriest have are incredibly good for loving with Enemy units. Like the one offensive rune they get took half the life off of a full ranked unit of Chaos Knights in the "axe of dargo" quest battle.

Yeah, the Rune of Wrath and Ruin is pretty drat good, it's just a DOT with a really bad particle effect so the effect isn't immediately noticeable.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:28

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

madmac posted:

Not early game on VH against a full stack, I would hope.

Part of the problem was that the AI kept trying to break off and form into pretty lines while engaging a single unit, which is definitely modded behavior.

Yeah, the Rune of Wrath and Ruin is pretty drat good, it's just a DOT with a really bad particle effect so the effect isn't immediately noticeable.

Then (suddenly) half the unit is dead and you can just cast it over and over and over without stopping.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:31

madmac: Jun 22, 2010

One of the interesting things that came out from digging into spell stats is that basically all the direct damage/dot spells have a built in model cap, essentially they can only kill so many dudes in a unit even if they're all goblins and have super weak HP. Which is all well and good for infantry blocks but it's what makes spells like Fate of Bjuna so brutal against Cav and other small elite units.

Honestly the cap should probably be adjusted to be proportional instead of a flat number, but eh lets just see what they do in the first patch first.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:46

Gejnor: Mar 14, 2005; Fun Shoe

quote:

There's also a large amount of design, planning and creation of models and artwork already under way for the second instalment of the trilogy. Given the fantastic response to the first game, our plans for the content of the second game have changed and expanded significantly.

I got curious over this, and checked (via Steamspy):
Total War: Warhammer Owners: 721,153
http://steamspy.com/app/364360
compare this to

Total War: ATTILA Owners: 724,742
http://steamspy.com/app/325610
Yeah i'd say TW:W aint doing so bad seeing as it has almost as many owners as Attila does,with its entire lifecycle to consider, and its only been a month!

This pleases me, pleases me greatly.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 21:48

frajaq: Jan 30, 2009; #acolyte GM of 2014

It's been awhile since I checked this thread, has anyone made a mod where Azhag starts the game with his magical crown? The legendary quest for it was really loving annoying last time I tried and just gave up and played grimgor instead

# ? Jun 24, 2016 22:11

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Azhag's quests are like straight up trolling by CA.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 22:12

Gay Horney: Feb 10, 2013; by Reene

What is the best way to handle dorfs as the Empire? Mortars don't seem to be that great and even with maxed out honest steel and a little bit of veterancy advantage my swordsmen and halberdiers don't stand much of a chance against even basic dwarf warriors. Should I bite the bullet and spend the 7500 to upgrade my gunsmith and get grand cannons?

# ? Jun 24, 2016 22:58

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Azhag's definitely Hard Mode Greenskins.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 22:58

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Sharzak posted:

What is the best way to handle dorfs as the Empire? Mortars don't seem to be that great and even with maxed out honest steel and a little bit of veterancy advantage my swordsmen and halberdiers don't stand much of a chance against even basic dwarf warriors. Should I bite the bullet and spend the 7500 to upgrade my gunsmith and get grand cannons?

Try Handgunners? You really, really need armour piercing vs dwarves. Throw in some cavalry to take out their quarrellers.

And no, halberdiers are anti-large and basically Dwarfs have no large so it's not worth it to use them at all.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 23:00

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Sharzak posted:

What is the best way to handle dorfs as the Empire? Mortars don't seem to be that great and even with maxed out honest steel and a little bit of veterancy advantage my swordsmen and halberdiers don't stand much of a chance against even basic dwarf warriors. Should I bite the bullet and spend the 7500 to upgrade my gunsmith and get grand cannons?

Cannons are certainly better than mortars against Dwarfs. Your other good options boil down to "guns" and "horses".

# ? Jun 24, 2016 23:00

peer: Jan 17, 2004; this is not what I wanted

Greatswords should be good too, as long as you keep them away from thunderers/quarrellers.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 23:02

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:07

Vargs: Mar 27, 2010

Chomp8645 posted:

Cannons are certainly better than mortars against Dwarfs. Your other good options boil down to "guns" and "horses".

Playing as Dwarfs, anti-armor artillery was always the worst thing to deal with. Gyros are the only thing that can really get back there and attack them, but gyros are late-game and also not so great. A single unit of handgunners would shut that down right away. You can try to shoot it with your own artillery, but it's such a small target that I find it takes foreeeeeeever and feels like a bit of a waste to finally destroy an artillery unit after it's already murdered hundreds of Dwarfs, while my own arty has been doing nothing nearly as productive.

# ? Jun 24, 2016 23:12

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