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So, the officer at the scene of the execution of Abed al-Sharif by Elor Azaria testified in court that Azaria told him before he shoot al-Sharif that 'he [al-Sharif] needs to die'. http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-soldier-who-executed-palestinian-attacker-said-he-needed-die-1633822646 The condemning evidence gathered against Azaria seems to be comprehensive and conclusive, if he walks away with less than 10 years (he won't get the full twenty) it will only be due to Netanyahu or Liberman intervening with the proceedings, it would be interesting if they'd be willing to do that because of the high international profile of this trial and it will be a big Hasbara fail.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:23
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I was wondering what happened with the 'security zone' that Israel retained after their failed occupation of Lebanon in the 80's and how google maps would represent this. Google goes by the UN2000 Blue Line, so I looked that up on wikipedia and now I am terribly confused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Line_(Lebanon) What does PLO activity in 1978 have to do with Lebanon? Why in this entire article is there no mention of Israeli attacking and occupying Lebanon in the 1980's, then later withdrawing which surely is how the current 'border' was created? That's the how and why of the present situation not some detail. Then there's this stub under "Violations of the Blue line" that sums up the entire 2006 Israel-Lebanon war as 2006 Hezbollah cross-border raid Main article: 2006 Lebanon War Hezbollah precipitated the 34-day-long 2006 Lebanon War when its militants fired rockets at Israeli border towns as a diversion for an anti-tank missile attack on two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence.[5] Of the seven Israeli soldiers in the two jeeps, two were wounded, five were killed, and two soldiers were taken to Lebanon.[5] Israel responded with massive airstrikes and artillery fire on targets in Lebanon and a ground invasion of southern Lebanon.[6] I don't remember any precipitation other than the specific kidnapping of Israelis patrolling the security zone, what rocket attacks before the kidnapping? The wikipedia sources are a 404 and a non-sequitur article about precision targeting. It wasn't very hard to find articles about Israeli retaliation that aren't random articles about IDF weapon precision. 
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Jun 18, 2016 07:56
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After the PLO was banished from Jordan following the events of Black September they established themselves in South Lebanon, in Israel at the time South Lebanon was colluiqually reffered to as Fatahland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon
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Jun 18, 2016 08:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l1aPzeBAWU Saw this on TV yesterday.
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Jun 18, 2016 09:45
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I want to call that # and request if my donation could go to gaza instead but I'm a little too old for crank calls at this point in my life to retain any self-respect afterwards.
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Jun 18, 2016 12:32
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Yesterday there was a rather horrific traffic accident in Tel-Aviv where a 41 year old driver apparently suffered a cardiac event and lost his ability to control his car and drove into the sidewalk and into the vitrine of a nearby restaurant ramming into several customers and bystanders killing 3 (including a US citizen) and injuring 7 more. As the car came to a full stop and the driver was injured, undergoing a cardiac event and unconscious several bystanders pulled him out of the car and started beating him as they thought he was a terrorist. Here's an interview with the wife of the owner of the restaurant who was an eyewitness to assault upon the injured driver (in hebrew, mostly posting this to avoid accusations of "making poo poo up") - http://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/local-q2_2016/Article-a156c5680176551004.htm
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Jun 19, 2016 08:34
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Yesterday there was a rather horrific traffic accident in Tel-Aviv where a 41 year old driver apparently suffered a cardiac event and lost his ability to control his car and drove into the sidewalk and into the vitrine of a nearby restaurant ramming into several customers and bystanders killing 3 (including a US citizen) and injuring 7 more. As the car came to a full stop and the driver was injured, undergoing a cardiac event and unconscious several bystanders pulled him out of the car and started beating him as they thought he was a terrorist. So is it just me or did they edit out the part where it said the driver was beaten? I remember reading that when you posted it but going over the same article I can't see it anymore even though the comments referencing it are still there.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:01
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Yeah it was certainly edited, the paragraph quoting the wife of the owner had an additional line that went "there were some people who thought he was a terrorist and they took him out of the car and beat him up.", it's strange that they removed it cause this was referenced in multiple other places. I will try to find a different source. Edit: here http://www.kolhazman.co.il/120037 When searching for the Hadshot 2 article on google the bot still shows the unedited version that includes the part about bystanders beating up on the driver. This is really ridiculous. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 20:57
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ariel says it's time for him to leave me. he's taught me all he can and now he can move on to the next task. what is the next task? only the good lord knows
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Jun 23, 2016 12:48
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It seems that Mahmoud Abbas was at the European Parliament recently and adopted a somewhat novel rhetorical tactic to emphasize the need to combat incitement and revive negotiations. Mahmoud Abbas Claims Rabbis Urged Israel to Poison Palestinians’ Water quote:JERUSALEM — Echoing anti-Semitic claims that led to the mass killings of European Jews in medieval times, President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority accused rabbis in Israel of calling on their government to poison the water used by Palestinians.
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Jun 25, 2016 06:00
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Israel doesn't need to poison water, they can just bomb water treatment plants to get the same result but with the excuse that they're just defending themselves against terrorism.
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Jun 25, 2016 06:50
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Extremist settlers do poison wells, Breaking The Silence released several videos proving this. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Rsjo4yNXg The part with a Rabbi publicly endorsing the well poisonings is seemingly a hoax though - http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.726657 Abbas lets himself get trolled too easily. (Though I would say it's almost certain that there are certain rabbis who do privately endorse these attacks). As per usual with stories pertaining to the propaganda war and to the actions of settlers do yourselves and this thread a favor and just take 3 more minutes of google time to actually figure out what's going on. Or just ask.
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Jun 25, 2016 07:56
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Cat Mattress posted:Israel doesn't need to poison water, they can just bomb water treatment plants to get the same result but with the excuse that they're just defending themselves against terrorism. This strikes me as a rather unconcerned response. But maybe it was intended as one. Is that how you would characterize your reaction to Abbas's remarks? Do we at least agree with the NYT that he was "echoing anti-Semitic claims"? emanresu tnuocca posted:The part with a Rabbi publicly endorsing the well poisonings is seemingly a hoax though - http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.726657 "Seemingly" a hoax is ahead at this point because the "Rabbi Mlma" who supposed issued the call does, rather obviously, not exist. And no, "some settler may have once done a lovely thing that can be rhetorically be connected to this" is not an adequate defense any more than "I'm sure that at least some immigrants have committed rape or murder  " is to Trump's line about Mexican immigrants being rapists and murderers.
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Jun 25, 2016 08:39
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What anti-Semitic claims would he be echoing, exactly? Was it common to accuse Rabbis of wanting the government to poison Muslims in medieval times? I haven't heard of it, but perhaps you could back it up with some kind of source?
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Jun 25, 2016 08:48
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The Insect Court posted:This strikes me as a rather unconcerned response. But maybe it was intended as one. Is that how you would characterize your reaction to Abbas's remarks? Do we at least agree with the NYT that he was "echoing anti-Semitic claims"? No that's stupid and disingenuous, extremist rabbis associated with the hill top youth and other kahanist groups do exist you know, "the king's Torah" is an actual book. If you think these religiously motivated ultra-nationalist gangs operate without endorsement from their rabbis you are deluded, if you think that saying that there are rabbis who support these gangs is antisemitic you are playing the "let's make everything antisemitic" game.
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Jun 25, 2016 08:59
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The Insect Court posted:This strikes me as a rather unconcerned response. But maybe it was intended as one. Is that how you would characterize your reaction to Abbas's remarks? Do we at least agree with the NYT that he was "echoing anti-Semitic claims"? Really I think the concerning thing is the decades long policy of ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, not that someone said Israel was trying to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians in a way which is different from the way they are trying to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. There were (presumably) false news reports in arabic media the weekend prior making these claims, so he was just repeating a news story. The original person who decided to make up this false story is anti-semitic as they must have known it was false. People who believed the story to be true and acted accordingly aren't anti-semitic. Abbas withdrew the comments when it was pointed out they were incorrect. It's not really concerning because there are Rabbis who advocate ethnically cleansing and at its heart that's what Abbas's claim was about. Instead of using one of the many actual examples of Israeli support for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, either in terms of the states actions or statements by Rabbis or opinion polls of the Israeli public, he got fooled into using a false one. I assume fooled because a) there's nothing actually showing he wilfully tried to deceive people rather than mistakenly believing a false story and b) when there's plenty of valid evidence of Israel actually committing ethnic cleansing, it would have been really stupid for him to knowingly pick one that he knew is false and would only make him look bad once that was revealed.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:00
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It's pretty drat convenient to control the narrative and the perceptions to the point where settlers actually poisoning water wells doesn't generate any media buzz but the moment someone says that some Rabbi encouraged them you get to shriek about antisemitism.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:15
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The Insect Court posted:This strikes me as a rather unconcerned response. But maybe it was intended as one. Is that how you would characterize your reaction to Abbas's remarks? Do we at least agree with the NYT that he was "echoing anti-Semitic claims"? Obviously. Everything a Palestinian says or does is anti-Semitic by default. Their mere continued existence is the worst act of antisemitism ever committed.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:49
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Also the Israli military blowing up water treatment plants, after explicitly being informed that they have no military value, effectively poisoning a huge chunk of the Gazan water supply which is still undrinkable today.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:49
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The Insect Court posted:This strikes me as a rather unconcerned response. But maybe it was intended as one. Is that how you would characterize your reaction to Abbas's remarks? Do we at least agree with the NYT that he was "echoing anti-Semitic claims"? The part I've bolded is absolutely correct, and it also needs to be applied to the Palestinian people and the collective punishment that they endure solely because of their ethnicity.
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Jun 25, 2016 19:08
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The Insect Court posted:"Seemingly" a hoax is ahead at this point because the "Rabbi Mlma" who supposed issued the call does, rather obviously, not exist. And no, "some settler may have once done a lovely thing that can be rhetorically be connected to this" is not an adequate defense any more than "I'm sure that at least some immigrants have committed rape or murder You don't give a gently caress about dead or poverty-stricken foreigners. Also answer other people's questions maybe when you decide to make a low-effort troll post.
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Jun 25, 2016 19:26
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emanresu tnuocca posted:You are playing the "let's make everything antisemitic" game. That's literally his whole sad and gross shtick by this point.
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Jun 25, 2016 19:51
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Kajeesus posted:What anti-Semitic claims would he be echoing, exactly? Was it common to accuse Rabbis of wanting the government to poison Muslims in medieval times? Do you see nothing antisemitic in the claim "Jews poison wells" as long as it's specified the wells aren't in the Pale of Settlement in the 19th century? team overhead smash posted:There were (presumably) false news reports in arabic media the weekend prior making these claims, so he was just repeating a news story. The original person who decided to make up this false story is anti-semitic as they must have known it was false. People who believed the story to be true and acted accordingly aren't anti-semitic. Abbas withdrew the comments when it was pointed out they were incorrect. Why do you feel the need to qualify a description of a fabricated antisemitic smear with the claim that it's only "presumably" false? It's beyond "presumably" at this point. I am glad that there is agreement in the thread (presumably) that a person who knowingly fabricates an antisemitic story is antisemitic, but I'm a little puzzled by the claim that people who believe antisemitic stories can't ever be considered antisemitic because their racist beliefs are sincere. Are conservatives who rant against Muslims when they read and believe a false story about a group of Syrian refugees raping a child not bigots because they believed the story? What if they (grudgingly) acknowledge the falsity of that specific story but also insisted the existence of proven cases of sexual assault committed by Muslim refugees legitimizes their hatred and makes the fabrication irrelevant?
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Jun 25, 2016 22:50
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The Insect Court posted:Do you see nothing antisemitic in the claim "Jews poison wells" as long as it's specified the wells aren't in the Pale of Settlement in the 19th century? If you believe it is not possible for a Jew to poison a well because something about their Jewishness makes them different from other human beings who are capable of poisoning wells, that is a form of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is bad.
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Jun 25, 2016 23:04
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Antisemitism also included accusing Jews of committing murders. Under the stunning logic on display by TIC, no Jewish person is thus capable of committing murders, because the man is conveniently incapable of distinguishing between "All X do this" and "an X person did this" as need be to call anyone to the left of Sharon a murderous antisemite.
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Jun 25, 2016 23:04
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The Insect Court posted:Do you see nothing antisemitic in the claim "Jews poison wells" as long as it's specified the wells aren't in the Pale of Settlement in the 19th century? I'm not defending Abbas; his claim was false and misinformed. What he didn't claim was that Jews were poisoning wells, in spite of the fact that Israeli settlers ("Jews," as you like to call them) have verifiably done this very thing. He falsely claimed that a rabbi had encouraged this behavior, which is a different accusation. Do you also believe he claimed that Jews are kidnapping Christians to harvest their blood for their own depraved rituals, something else of which that article accuses him? And regardless, do you think that his accusations are more deplorable than the actual direct and indirect water poisonings by the Israeli settlers and government?
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Jun 25, 2016 23:15
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The Insect Court posted:Why do you feel the need to qualify a description of a fabricated antisemitic smear with the claim that it's only "presumably" false? It's beyond "presumably" at this point. Due to it being a presumption that it is fabricated and that being how the English language works. quote:I am glad that there is agreement in the thread (presumably) that a person who knowingly fabricates an antisemitic story is antisemitic, but I'm a little puzzled by the claim that people who believe antisemitic stories can't ever be considered antisemitic because their racist beliefs are sincere. Are conservatives who rant against Muslims when they read and believe a false story about a group of Syrian refugees raping a child not bigots because they believed the story? What if they (grudgingly) acknowledge the falsity of that specific story but also insisted the existence of proven cases of sexual assault committed by Muslim refugees legitimizes their hatred and makes the fabrication irrelevant? Israeli rabbis do stand up for and promote ethnic cleansing. Israel has been ethnically cleansing the Palestinians for decades. Therefore believing and questioning a news report that says Israelis rabbis are promoting ethnic cleansing is not some crazy out there conspiracy like "MUSLIM OBAMA WANTS SECRET ISIS SLEEPER AGENT IMMIGRANTS TO RAPE YOUR WOMEN" but rather just a sad example of how if the story had been true, it would have just been one more example of human rights abuses against the Palestinians. More importantly, on the scale of things ethnic cleansing related someone believing a story for a few days and then realising it is wrong and retracting their statement about it (which is what Abbas did) is about a million times less important than the fact that Israel is committing ethnic cleansing or the fact that Rabbis are literally promoting ethnic cleansing.
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Jun 25, 2016 23:22
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Elor Azariya's commanding officer testified against him at the trial, saying that the terrorist posed no threat and that Azariya had told him that "the terrorist needed to die". As a result, he was subjected to such an intensive harassment campaign that the prosecution has requested other witnesses' names not be publicized. The prosecution has closed the file on the Duma arson suspect, without filing charges, citing a lack of evidence. It's been a good while now, and despite a number of investigations and arrests, Israel has yet to find and prosecute the culprit. This very well could be a legitimate failure rather than a deliberate one (far-right enclaves dislike the security forces and are notoriously unlikely to cooperate with investigations), but either way it seems that Palestinian pessimism proved more accurate than lofty Israeli promises about getting to the bottom of it.
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Jun 26, 2016 01:43
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The Insect Court posted:Are conservatives who rant against Muslims when they read and believe a false story about a group of Syrian refugees raping a child not bigots because they believed the story? What if they (grudgingly) acknowledge the falsity of that specific story but also insisted the existence of proven cases of sexual assault committed by Muslim refugees legitimizes their hatred and makes the fabrication irrelevant? The really obvious difference here is that Muslims are not responsible for actively causing great harm to conservatives, while Israel, a Jewish nationalist country, actively does a bunch of terrible things to Palestinians. While any sort of racism is wrong, some racism is more wrong than others (racism stemming from a more powerful demographic against a disenfranchised minority demographic). If you want an analogy, Palestinians ranting about Israeli Jews is similar to black nationalists in the US ranting about whites being evil. It's still racist and wrong, but it isn't nearly as bad or harmful as a dominant demographic being racist towards a minority demographic.
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Jun 26, 2016 01:44
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team overhead smash posted:Due to it being a presumption that it is fabricated and that being how the English language works. The Holocaust having happened makes any perceived Anti-Semitism worse than any other thing that is actually happening, sorry.
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Jun 26, 2016 01:50
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Main Paineframe posted:The prosecution has closed the file on the Duma arson suspect, without filing charges, citing a lack of evidence. It's been a good while now, and despite a number of investigations and arrests, Israel has yet to find and prosecute the culprit. This very well could be a legitimate failure rather than a deliberate one (far-right enclaves dislike the security forces and are notoriously unlikely to cooperate with investigations), but either way it seems that Palestinian pessimism proved more accurate than lofty Israeli promises about getting to the bottom of it. Could you post a link to that? Because that is not consistent with any of the links I can find online, which suggest a January indictment and ongoing trial for Amiram Ben-Uliel and an unnamed minor.
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Jun 26, 2016 01:54
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Could you post a link to that? Because that is not consistent with any of the links I can find online, which suggest a January indictment and ongoing trial for Amiram Ben-Uliel and an unnamed minor. Sorry, my mistake. I was talking about Netanel Furkowitz, who was investigated as an accomplice. I forgot about Amiram Ben-Uliel since it's been so long, I just assumed he'd been let go like so many others who were taken in for investigstion.
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Jun 26, 2016 02:05
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Ytlaya posted:The really obvious difference here is that Muslims are not responsible for actively causing great harm to conservatives, while Israel, a Jewish nationalist country, actively does a bunch of terrible things to Palestinians. While any sort of racism is wrong, some racism is more wrong than others (racism stemming from a more powerful demographic against a disenfranchised minority demographic). This is disgusting, especially considering that you know, 2000 years of pogroms and all. But hey, Jews have good economic outcomes in a handful of Anglophone countries so it totally totally makes up for it. Drink bleach.
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Jun 26, 2016 06:07
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Avshalom posted:ariel says it's time for him to leave me. he's taught me all he can and now he can move on to the next task. what is the next task? only the good lord knows god bless and good shabbos navi avshalom
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Jun 26, 2016 08:15
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Pogroms and the Shoah mean that Palestinians need to accept with a smile their rightful place as Israel's helots. It's disgusting that they would be more concerned about their so-called plight right now than about stuff that happened to the ancestors of their oppressors.
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Jun 26, 2016 09:12
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team overhead smash posted:Due to it being a presumption that it is fabricated and that being how the English language works. Could the fact that the supposed rabbi does not actually exist kind of clinch it? And seriously, Rabbi Mlma? Does he have any connection to the evil Rabbi Qwerty, who presumably was not the Zionist responsible for the downing of MS804 (but only presumably)? quote:Therefore believing and questioning a news report that says Israelis rabbis are promoting ethnic cleansing is not some crazy out there conspiracy like "MUSLIM OBAMA WANTS SECRET ISIS SLEEPER AGENT IMMIGRANTS TO RAPE YOUR WOMEN" but rather just a sad example of how if the story had been true, it would have just been one more example of human rights abuses against the Palestinians. Imagine that some Tea Partiers eagerly pass around some story from Breitbart/chain emails/social media/  about, let's say, gangs of black youth stalking the cities looking for white people to randomly assault. Or gangs of Muslim refugees stalking and raping young white women. Or transgender people lurking in public bathrooms to sexually assault children.And imagine that what should have at a bare minimum set off some alarm bells and received a healthy dose of skepticism from any non-biased person exposed it is revealed to be a forgery out of whole cloth. Then imagine the reactions to its refutation by those people who were credulous enough to believe it initially falls into either: a) Insisting that it seemed perfectly plausible and there was no good reason to reject it until now b) Admit it's not true in this particular instance but is in others so it might as well be true, or c) Not really important because bigotry against the ethnic group in question isn't that important comparatively. Do any of those excuses strike you as acceptable ones?
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Jun 26, 2016 10:31
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The Insect Court posted:Could the fact that the supposed rabbi does not actually exist kind of clinch it? And seriously, Rabbi Mlma? Does he have any connection to the evil Rabbi Qwerty, who presumably was not the Zionist responsible for the downing of MS804 (but only presumably)? The entire issue here is that someone uncritically believed a news story and at the time I hadn't seen anything about it being incorrect.. For me the lesson is not to uncritically take someone's word for something unless I have firm evidence. For you the lesson seems to be that if something is Anti-Israeli you assume it is wrong, if it's Pro-Israeli you seem it's right. quote:Imagine that some Tea Partiers eagerly pass around some story from Breitbart/chain emails/social media/ Sadly in Israel the story of "Rabbi says something incredibly awful promoting ethnic cleansing, violence or racism" is not a crazy unbelievable story that people should always double check but rather a sad reality, it's more along the lines of "Man robs store". Israeli commits a mass of war crimes and human rights abuses and some of its rabbis support them or even argue in favour of crazier things. I've already linked to the Sephardi Chief Rabbi promoting ethnic cleansing. Other Rabbis have have spoken about how it's fine to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians or that in the entire world the only purpose of gentiles is to serve Jews. Do you doubt every single story you read in a newspaper? Do you refuse to believe that a random dude really did rob a store until you can get hard proof yourself? No, you look at the story and only doubt it if there's something about it that seems unrealistic. Sadly Israeli Rabbis saying extreme and racist stuff is already real, with them factually saying stuff no worse than the incorrect allegation already. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 13:05
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So, there are settlers who routinely poison wells and the Israeli authorities rarely do anything about it? Woah, that's quite a story, thanks for bringing it to this threads attention TIC.
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Jun 26, 2016 13:12
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I like that since TIC accidentally locked himself out of his beloved Nazi analogies he's been stuck using completely nonsensical comparisons to the US right.
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Jun 26, 2016 14:00
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The Insect Court posted:Could the fact that the supposed rabbi does not actually exist kind of clinch it? And seriously, Rabbi Mlma? Does he have any connection to the evil Rabbi Qwerty, who presumably was not the Zionist responsible for the downing of MS804 (but only presumably)? The surname מלמה is actually not completely unheard of, as a bit of googling would show. It probably romanizes to Malema or Malameh, though.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:45
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