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DrProsek posted:Barry Allen personally ruined my childhood. But isn't that the Flash in your avatar there?
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Jun 26, 2016 17:06
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I don't honestly hate Flash, just indifferent to the Flashes despite them being pretty popular. I certainly wouldn't mind if there was a Flash-less JL, but I'm not like going to refuse to read JL because there's a Flash on it or anything.
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TwoPair posted:But how will we get the Greatest Green Lantern Ever, Hal Jordan, back on the team? Speaking of, as someone who refuses to read Green Lantern, where is John? Are him, Guy, Hal, and Kyle doing space things while the newbies join the League? Why would the Justice League ever need two Green Lanterns?
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Jun 26, 2016 17:35
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Norns posted:Yo. I'm pretty sure every loving person here thinks sexism, racism, rape, and oppression are bad. It isn't a coincidence that "I want a good justice league" and "Kick off all the black people" come hand-in-hand, because the iconic characters tend to be white dudes and nobody is willing to spend time to develop anyone who isn't named Cyborg. The answer isn't to keep going back to the safe people, it's to get a good writer who can do interesting things with lesser-known characters. That is what gave us stuff like JLI after all.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:40
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To be fair, it almost seems like DC actively tries to keep the only characters anyone cares about white guys. Roll back all the legacy heroes and make your one important PoC a random Teen Titan who has no business being on the League? Great idea  SonicRulez posted:Speaking of, as someone who refuses to read Green Lantern, where is John? Are him, Guy, Hal, and Kyle doing space things while the newbies join the League? Why would the Justice League ever need two Green Lanterns? Why would you only want one guy on the team with the most powerful and versatile set of abilities on the planet? At this rate the Earth GLs could start their own League and put every other super hero out of business. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 17:41
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Also those two GLs share a lantern so they kinda come as a set for the time being.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:43
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Is be fine if they replaced human void in space cyborg with literally any other hero of color that's actually interesting in the DCU. Like, uh.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:45
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Toxxupation posted:Is be fine if they replaced human void in space cyborg with literally any other hero of color that's actually interesting in the DCU. Mister Terrific.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:45
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Vixen.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:48
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Either way Aquaman sucks and is lame to the point where the comic has to turn to the reader and go "sorry that this guy sucks and is lame" every single time he appears, I really honestly do not see the loving point of keeping him on there if they're gonna approach his character like he's something to apologize for. Plus eliminating him allows for another superhero of color on the team over "white people and cyborg". I would be more fine with both GLs being on the JL if their solo wasn't a loving mess of poor characterization and both characters whining about how useless they are. If Green Lanterns is anything to go on for how they're gonna be on the JL we're gonna have two more annoying twats constantly squabbling with each other and inartly stating their character themes to anyone who'll listen. It'll be like new 52 JL all over again, aka terrible. Simon Baz and Jessica whatever her last name is have interesting characters in theory, which is why I'm reading their mediocre as hell book in the first place, but if the dedicated writer cannot nail their characters in their solo book I have little faith they will be at all interesting in a loving teamup. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 17:52
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Toxxupation posted:Either way Aquaman sucks and is lame to the point where the comic has to turn to the reader and go "sorry that this guy sucks and is lame" every single time he appears, I really honestly do not see the loving point of keeping him on there if they're gonna approach his character like he's something to apologize for. Aquaman is a fine character. He suffers from the fact that a bunch of comic writers got upset about Seanbaby jokes and are completely and utterly unwilling to let that poo poo go and just deal with the hero on his own merits. I mean I'll point out that frigging Animal Man or Vision or whoever you like have had completely excellent stories done with their characters and they're frankly harder to work with than "dude who is king of the undersea while also being super strong and durable on land."
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Jun 26, 2016 17:55
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SonicRulez posted:Speaking of, as someone who refuses to read Green Lantern, where is John? Are him, Guy, Hal, and Kyle doing space things while the newbies join the League? Why would the Justice League ever need two Green Lanterns? John, Guy and the rest of the GLC are lost in another universe. Hal Jordan & the GLC's first arc is about Hal bringing them back. Kyle is stile a White Lantern but he's MIA for the time being although Venditti has said he will show up in HJ&GLC eventually. At the end of Omega Men he decided to lay low for a while following the series' events but doesn't seem Venditti will take that into account. WickedHate posted:To be fair, it almost seems like DC actively tries to keep the only characters anyone cares about white guys. Roll back all the legacy heroes and make your one important PoC a random Teen Titan who has no business being on the League? Great idea Well, the first arc of the JL in the N52 was pretty great. Honestly I'm not interested in this current incarnation of the JL. I want to see Hal not Baz nor Jessica. quote:Why would you only want one guy on the team with the most powerful and versatile set of abilities on the planet? At this rate the Earth GLs could start their own League and put every other super hero out of business. Baz and Jessica are rookies and they are in the JL so their "seniors" can keep an eye on them and teach them to properly use their powers.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:57
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Hal Jordan is the least interesting character in the loving universe and I'm glad he's not anywhere near the JL.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:01
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Toxxupation posted:Is be fine if they replaced human void in space cyborg with literally any other hero of color that's actually interesting in the DCU. Renee Montoya 
Alhazred fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 18:02
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She actually exists now, she's just a regular cop though.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:07
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I always feel bad for Aquaman because there is so much potential that can be done with character if people cared. Like the dude is a king over a very very very vast territory. You could go Game of Thrones with this. Or anything. It shouldn't be hard to make a good Aquaman comic. Johns even managed to do a half decent comic.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:Aquaman is a fine character. He suffers from the fact that a bunch of comic writers got upset about Seanbaby jokes and are completely and utterly unwilling to let that poo poo go and just deal with the hero on his own merits. The problem is that Aquaman's turned into a metatextual joke/embarrassment, and once you cross that particular Rubicon it's basically impossible to move back from. A common defense of Aquaman is "Sure, we comic readers think Aquaman is lame, but if you lived in Aquaman's world and were about to get attacked by Black Manta or something only for Aquaman to ride in on a whale or some poo poo and beat the unholy gently caress out of him you'd think Aquaman is the coolest poo poo ever." Which is more the point, the writers let the out-of-universe criticisms of the character bleed into the story where suddenly and for no reason everyone in the universe thinks Aquaman is lame, which has now redefined the character to the point where he's a lame loser the comics have to contort themselves to justify. Even though that makes no loving sense. He's been ruined by metatextual criticism to the point where that's the character now, and unless DC throws the brakes and runs as far and as fast away from that dumb note as possible every time Aquaman appears he's going to be viewed as a punchline who doesn't deserve to be there, a lame idiot who talks to fish. It's basically the exact problem the House of Ideas has with Hank Pym. If we lived in Ant-Man's world we wouldn't make fun of the guy for hitting his wife or bringing it up decades after the fact for one isolated incident he feels guilt to this day over and fully admitted to and basically his entire life was ruined over that one event. The guy's a loving hero who's saved the world and even the universe several times over, and if we lived in the 616 we would hate him for inventing Ultron, not a single horrific thing he did decades ago that he's spent the rest of his life trying to redeem himself for. The problem is we, as comic readers, know that Hank hit Janet and he's become the butt of easy jokes as a result, and that's filtered through to the comics where Hank's now known as the wifebeating rear end in a top hat that everyone takes easy shots at. And now we're at the point where one of the founding Avengers is so completely tainted in public perception he's basically impossible to use as a hero, because whenever he shows up somebody goes "Oh look the wifebeater's here".
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Jun 26, 2016 18:17
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Tumblr-616 would totally remember hitting Jane and bring it up constantly.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:21
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I was actually going to cede the point that Woke Twitter-616 would absolutely poo poo on him every day for hitting Janet, but either way I'm more saying that the idea that other superheroes and just regular people in the "real world" of the 616 would dunk on him for one isolated incident constantly to the point where his name is mud over it doesn't really track. Or, you're basically taking the super pessimistic view on humanity that states that people can't make mistakes and learn from them and still be good people, even heroes, but flawed. I don't think that's where writers are going with Hank Pym (some dark philosophical point on the nature of public perception), I'm more certain it's just writers hearing the words "Hank Pym" and going "Oh, yeah, the wifebeater guy" because that's the out-of-universe perception of the character. Much the same way that writers hear the word "Aquaman" and go "Oh, yeah, the lame dude who talks to fish". NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 18:28
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Toxxupation posted:Or, you're basically taking the super pessimistic view on humanity that states that people can't make mistakes and learn from them and still be good people, even heroes, but flawed. A lot of people think exactly this.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:31
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I know what you mean I'm just giggling thinking about yourfavengerisproblamatic.tumblr.com
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Jun 26, 2016 18:36
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't a coincidence that "I want a good justice league" and "Kick off all the black people" come hand-in-hand, because the iconic characters tend to be white dudes and nobody is willing to spend time to develop anyone who isn't named Cyborg. The answer isn't to keep going back to the safe people, it's to get a good writer who can do interesting things with lesser-known characters. That is what gave us stuff like JLI after all. Seriously, me not liking Cyborg has nothing do do with his skin color you nitwits. Sorry DC has a lot of white characters. I don't have anything to do with that.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:45
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Norns posted:Seriously, me not liking Cyborg has nothing do do with his skin color you nitwits. Its possible to not like Cyborg and not be racist but it hurts your case when you make 'jokes' that made up outer space aliens should provide satisfactory diversity, and that people should stop making everything about race. Because actual racists unironically say things like that
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Jun 26, 2016 18:53
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I think cyborg is pretty cool ever since they made his origin that he merged with a motherbox. Out of the flashpoint and War animated movies he was basically the only part I liked in both.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:54
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Toxxupation posted:Is be fine if they replaced human void in space cyborg with literally any other hero of color that's actually interesting in the DCU. Black Lightning, Vixen, Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Mister Terrific (if the JSA isn't coming back to Prime Earth), John Stewart. Hell, put Icon back on the League. I've always been a fan of the Silver Age JL and its size. Make it like the awesome cartoon show and have a rotating roster each story-arc. But the original 7 need to be there. I don't care if Cyborg is on the League (even though he's a Titan), but I'm sick and tired of him being an original member. All it does is destroys all that legacy of him with the Teen Titans.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:56
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greatn posted:I think cyborg is pretty cool ever since they made his origin that he merged with a motherbox. Out of the flashpoint and War animated movies he was basically the only part I liked in both. That is possibly the faintest-rear end faint praise you're damning Cyborg with. I'm just surprised they didn't transplant Cyborg from the Teen Titans cartoon wholecloth into the DCU. Seriously I'm trying to think of a better character rehabilitation in general than Cyborg pre-and post- the Teen Titans cartoons and coming up short. Maybe, ironically, Starfire from Teen Titans as well?
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Jun 26, 2016 18:57
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I don't know what isn't to like. He's a black cyborg Megaman who can control machines.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:03
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greatn posted:I don't know what isn't to like. He's a black cyborg Megaman who can control machines. If he beat up gimmicky evil robots and stole their powers for his own use, I would be much more interested in Cyborg. Also give him the robot dog while we're at it.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:07
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I mean, hell, make his nemesis Dr T.O. Morrow and call it a day. I think Cyborg basically has an adaptive weapon system already.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:20
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Norns posted:Seriously, me not liking Cyborg has nothing do do with his skin color you nitwits. It has something to do with the fact he hasn't had a good story and rather than pushing for him to get good stories you want him replaced by familiar characters, even though if the writer can't do anything interesting with these characters it's not like they're super-likely to be overflowing with amazing Hal Jordan stories.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:44
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Toxx is absolutely spot on about Aquaman. As soon as writers stop apologizing for him, he will be a fine character. Perhaps never the best, but serviceable. The worst thing I see in superhero media is when a work feels like it needs to apologize for something. I don't like the "What did you want, yellow spandex?" quip. I don't like the way they write Aquaman. I don't like "It means hope". Just be a comic book. This guy is king of the entire ocean, he's kind of an rear end in a top hat, and he can ride sharks. Run with that WITHOUT "I don't talk to fish" and how everyone in-universe thinks he's lame. That's absurd. Dexie posted:If he beat up gimmicky evil robots and stole their powers for his own use, I would be much more interested in Cyborg. I would read the poo poo out of Cyborg as Mega Man. WickedHate posted:Why would you only want one guy on the team with the most powerful and versatile set of abilities on the planet? At this rate the Earth GLs could start their own League and put every other super hero out of business. I was just thinking from a narrative standpoint. Having two guys with the same powers on the same team is normally not good for one of the two. Kinda like how Martian Manhunter has a hard time existing on teams with Superman. Thanks for the rundown, DT. I am left with more questions though. What universe are they trapped in? How will they be affected by Rebirth if they're not even around?
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Jun 26, 2016 19:44
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The idea of a Mulder/Scully buddy cop team of Lanterns who have to share the same power battery is good as heck.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:49
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Toxxupation posted:I'm just surprised they didn't transplant Cyborg from the Teen Titans cartoon wholecloth into the DCU. Seriously I'm trying to think of a better character rehabilitation in general than Cyborg pre-and post- the Teen Titans cartoons and coming up short. Maybe, ironically, Starfire from Teen Titans as well? Even in the cartoons, he was a pretty good supporting character, but almost all the episodes and storylines focusing on him kind of sucked. No one can seem to move past the rote "AM I MAN, OR AM I MACHINE!?!?" storyline.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:51
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Travis343 posted:The idea of a Mulder/Scully buddy cop team of Lanterns who have to share the same power battery is good as heck. It really is, and I don't understand how people can be dismissing a book as terrible or painfully mediocre when it has existed for 1 issue.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:56
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SonicRulez posted:Thanks for the rundown, DT. I am left with more questions though. What universe are they trapped in? How will they be affected by Rebirth if they're not even around? No problem. The corps being missing has been the focus of two minis: Lost Army and Edge of Obivion. In Lost Army it was explicitly shown that they were in the same universe from which Relic came from (they even team up with a young Relic and Krona) and thus they were actually in the past of the modern DCU. However, that series was cut short and its follow up, Edge of Oblivion dropped any references to the Corps being in the past and it simply took it like the Corps being stranded in a doomed universe. As for Rebirth affecting them, most likely they will simply show up with a new status quo and everyone will act like that is how they always were. That is what happened with Sinestro and the Red Lanterns already.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:57
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Really, aren't the only times Aquaman comics try to make a point about him not being a joke the first issues? Why people are still anti Cyborg being on the Justice League, I'll never know. Even if his major features are monitoring and being a boom tube most of the time, he's still been more prominent than half of that team. It's a shame Johns didn't do a storyline based around him to really show him off, and it's a shame his solo run didn't really work, but Cyborg's fuckin' fine. e: Looks like Reburp's working out. http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/26/bleeding-cool-bestseller-list-26th-june-2016/ It'll be a bit of a different story this week with just DK3 and Grayson and TT annuals coming out. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 20:06
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I'm totally on board with putting at least one single black guy on the team to balance out the wonderbread factory that is the justice league. What bothers me is of all the great characters DC could have brought onto the team and said "This person is now an A lister" and try to sell that to people they picked what might be one of the worst, most boring heroes they've ever had. I don't think they did it because people knew him from that Teen Titans cartoon because he neither looks nor acts like that version of the character, so I have no idea why they went with him. You could have brought in Static, let the team have someone kind of young and goofy to balance out the old hat, serious mentor figures. Maybe Jon Stewert instead of two new rookie lanterns that are barely above Hal Jordan when it comes to having a personality. Vixen could have been neat, or maybe bring back Mr. Terrific if you just wanted to replace Martian Manhunter as the overseer/team center. Hell, you could have fixed the "Aquaman is boring" problem at the same time by leaving Arthur Curry as King of Atlantis and making the second Aqualad, the N52 Aquaman, sent out to explore the surface world or something. DC's got a bunch of really cool black characters but no, they went with Cyborg. He's just such a nothing personality. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 21:53
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They only went with Cyborg because Johns loves the character. If Johns had a boner for Amazing Man then he'd currently be on the team.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:56
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Rhyno posted:They only went with Cyborg because Johns loves the character. If Johns had a boner for Amazing Man then he'd currently be on the team. So he loves Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and Cyborg... That's just sad.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:58
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:So he loves Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and Cyborg... He also loves the original LOSH and the Donner Superman films so I have no complaints there.
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Jun 26, 2016 22:00
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Rhyno posted:They only went with Cyborg because Johns loves the character. If Johns had a boner for Amazing Man then he'd currently be on the team. I think it has more to do with the fact that Cyborg was in Super Friends and Johns is too addicted to his nostalgia
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Jun 26, 2016 22:03
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