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waitwhatno posted:You inbred hicks, everyone is having the biggest stock market crash since 2008. London stock exchange is burning, DAX lost 10% of its value, some British banks are down by 1/3. You inbred hicks. eat the rich.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:06
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can we jus tkill everyone who owns stocks
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Jun 26, 2016 20:07
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double nine posted:eat the rich. Say the poor as all the losses are passed onto them.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:09
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Sinteres posted:If nothing else, it could signal to member states that they should de-prioritize English education. Who cares about that poo poo, Europe needs a lingua franca and it already has one, why would we do something silly like undoing the work of decades just to spite the english?
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Jun 26, 2016 20:23
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MeLKoR posted:Who cares about that poo poo, Europe needs a lingua franca and it already has one, why would we do something silly like undoing the work of decades just to spite the english? This is true; however, if doing something silly that could undo decades of work were seen as something to be avoided, there would have been no Brexit referendum in the first place.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:38
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MeLKoR posted:Who cares about that poo poo, Europe needs a lingua franca and it already has one, why would we do something silly like undoing the work of decades just to spite the english? Ask Germans 
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Jun 26, 2016 20:47
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El Perkele posted:Ask Germans Let's just switch to American English instead, it's not like we're not already using it a lot anyway. I'd even say scots to spite the UK but it's too bloody hard to read
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Jun 26, 2016 20:58
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Cat Mattress posted:I do not believe that people who have learned to read and write French and English should be considered to be "illiterate in every language" by people in the EU. As someone who is married with someone from "one of those countries" and went through all that work poo poo Here are two facts: a) Speaking English/French/X at school or university and doing the level tests in non-EU countries does not equal doing the same in an EU country. EU schoolchildren have a better English education than many over there studying in English at university. In some countries this is also true for other topics. I have met Eastern European degree holders barely literate in their field. b) European Job markets, including French, British and German, are very deeply racist and at the very least require near native knowledge of the language. You might think that international organizations and banks might be an exception, but this is not true at all. The stories I could tell you about the overt or less overt racism in these countries would make your head spin Bonus points if Muslim woman, obviously
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Jun 26, 2016 21:13
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Spanish election results: doesn't look much too different, Unidos Podemos underperformed massively and came in 3rd (possibly brexit pushing people towards the political establishment?), not many ways to break deadlock (PP-PSOE and PSOE-UP-C's look like the only configurations that could potentially work; if any of the involved parties are willing to bite the bullet anyway).
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Jun 26, 2016 21:38
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YF-23 posted:Spanish election results: doesn't look much too different, Unidos Podemos underperformed massively and came in 3rd (possibly brexit pushing people towards the political establishment?), not many ways to break deadlock (PP-PSOE and PSOE-UP-C's look like the only configurations that could potentially work; if any of the involved parties are willing to bite the bullet anyway). PSOE's big wigs know that they have to lead a coalition, not go on equal terms with other willing parties 'cause if they do so they're going to get PASOK'd to the seventh circle of electoral Hell next cycle.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:46
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Well, they cannot do that with Podemos alone, and not having paid much attention in Spanish politics I don't know if political discourse leaves any room for C's to join such a coalition. I don't know if they can scrape enough MPs from smaller parties to get the required number of MPs but I doubt it. As an uneducated observer, it feels like it's gonna be either PP-PSOE(-C's) or deadlock. But I guess we'll know in the coming days anyway.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:53
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double nine posted:eat the rich. Don't eat the rich. Do you want to get kuru? Cause that's how you get kuru. I have a better plan. Next time you feel the urge to cast a protest vote, don't vote FN/AfD/FinnlandStronk or whatever. Vote socialist/Marxist. Your Marxist party is a bunch of retards worshipping Stalin or praising Putin? Doesn't matter, vote for them. At least that will send the right signal. Cause when the disenfranchised working class votes right wing, our retard politicians don't really seem to get any kind of message from that. Also, all that immigrant hate mongering is a huge distraction from really important issues. We dismantled our social democracy by ourselves, long before the Syrian civil war. We didn't need any help from immigrants in that regard. The people who came here last summer and fled war, death and inhumane living conditions are totally inconsequential to our own attempts at self-destruction. Hate-mongering against minorities is just a distraction tactic, one that is as old as politics.
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Jun 27, 2016 01:57
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YF-23 posted:Well, they cannot do that with Podemos alone, and not having paid much attention in Spanish politics I don't know if political discourse leaves any room for C's to join such a coalition. I don't know if they can scrape enough MPs from smaller parties to get the required number of MPs but I doubt it. As an uneducated observer, it feels like it's gonna be either PP-PSOE(-C's) or deadlock. But I guess we'll know in the coming days anyway. no, even if you add up all the left-wing parties you only get 170 or 171 seats, you need 176 for a majority. right wing parties add up to 177. it'll be either a grand coalition or a right-wing one
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Jun 27, 2016 02:50
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Or they'll just fling poo poo at each other again, fail to form a government, and do this all over again in a few months.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:56
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Here's Boris Johnson's, Britains PM candidate's, Sunday night column outlining his grand strategy at Brexit. It would be hilarious if it didn't reek of desperation. Boris Johnson, 26th June 2016 posted:This EU referendum has been the most extraordinary political event of our lifetime. Never in our history have so many people been asked to decide a big question about the nation’s future. Never have so many thought so deeply, or wrestled so hard with their consciences, in an effort to come up with the right answer.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:18
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Lets push britains poo poo in.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:28
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His Divine Shadow posted:Lets push britains poo poo in. Well it seems that's exactly what they want with this sort of planning
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Jun 27, 2016 08:35
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Scotland should start building a wall, to keep the English rapists and murderers out. The English will even pay for the wall.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:39
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Am I missing something or is he just describing Britain in the EEC and Schengen, plus some "point based" immigration law for non EU citizens? Was there anything about the EU that prevented Britain from reforming its immigration laws for non EU countries?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:47
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Sereri posted:Scotland should start building a wall, to keep the English rapists and murderers out. The English will even pay for the wall. Let's be honest here, England's not sending their best. Some, I assume, are good people.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:05
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waitwhatno posted:Am I missing something or is he just describing Britain in the EEC and Schengen, plus some "point based" immigration law for non EU citizens? Was there anything about the EU that prevented Britain from reforming its immigration laws for non EU countries? Yes, seems like thinly veiled EEA proposal. That's much, much worse for UK than what they currently have and completely against the entire Leave campaign platform. Good luck negotiationg anything better than what Norway has.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:11
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RE: JERBS & immigration from the last page or two. And a lot of the guys were right in what they said. Finland has mapped asylum seekers vs their job qualifications, something which became quite necessary after 30k+ young Arab men from Sweden entered the country last year to escape the vicious and deadly civil war which poses them high personal risks over there, 66% had no occupation, half had "undetermined" educational status, and only 1/4 had any education after primary school. Roughly 10% speak English (a language you can come by in Finland) and the rest possessed no language skills which enable going about your stuff in a Nordic society. Finland is a country going through the 8th or 9th year of financial recession, and there are some 400-500k Finns - many of them well educated and with past job histories and all who speak local languages well - unemployed and lining for jobs too. This equation just doesn't work in any positive manner. If EU means we have to take in all comers from countries surrounding Europe until the development gap equals after 100 or 200 years or whatever, the project will not continue to garner public support until the end of time. Those numerous D&D posters who yell "racism!" when migrants can't find work have always been wrong and are still wrong. It isn't about race. Or religion (I remember a poster claiming there is an EU wide employer conspiracy, from corner stores to banks to IT to prevent Muslims from getting a job, though having worked in several multinational corporations, on occasion as the person who does the interviews, at least I have been unable to observe anything like that going on). There are few jobs to go around, not only in Finland, and if you don't speak any locally known languge, you very accidentally lost your passport on the way to the country and nobody knows who you actually are and you have no job qualifications, you will be in the bottom of the heap no matter if your first name is Jukka, Peter, Ivan or Mohammad exactly as posters said in the last few pages. Western Europeans are pissed off with the immigration issue for numerous reasons, like these: - We were told international laws and treaties make it impossible for us to refuse entry to foreign citizens without passports. This was never true, exactly. If everyone would have abided to both the Schengen and the Dublin treaties, hordes of uknown men from Sweden would have never crossed the border in Finland - and this is true everywhere in the EU. (UK had and has very little trouble with this though.) - We were told the new comers don't have any negative impact on the economy. You have to be seriously reality challenged to believe this, but that's what the pro-EU, pro-mass migration left and right has been telling everyone anyway for the past few decades. Having more unemployed people who live off benefits will not improve the economy. It wasn't many years ago Swedes would yell at you in rage for suggesting their immigration policies could have any negative effect on anything, but lo and behold, they just revamped their whole system in that regard not many days ago (explicitly to deter new comers). But hah, who told you that any particular migrants are often unemployed? You might be a racist for saying such awful things! Well in Finland or Sweden it takes between 8-10 years for asylum seekers to find employment if they do. In Finland some 15% working age of Iraqis and Somalis are employed opposed to some 60% of Finns, and it isn't better in other Nordic countries either. - We were told mass migration will fix our demographics... yet Sweden has more hosed up demographics than China during the one child policy - so many of the new comers are young men. If anyone anywhere thinks that a massive surplus of young men vs women "fixes" anything vs causing a lot of trouble it is a truly wondorous feat of magical thinking. - Gaaah, we are so old there is nobody to fill all the required jobs! Just check out the unemployment stats in Southern Europe and think again. The problem is not people getting old, it's that there are no jobs. Robots are replacing us. And mass migration from developing countries to the EU area will not change that. - If you care about any of this stuff, speak aloud, or doubt the wisdom of mass immigration to the EU, then you are a hitler. So ignore or it all, or we'll call you a racist. That worked well for a while, but it doesn't anymore. It's backfiring right now if anything. Ligur fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 09:23
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waitwhatno posted:Was there anything about the EU that prevented Britain from reforming its immigration laws for non EU countries? Not a single thing. The EU does have directives related to non-EU immigration but they can be implemented in very loose ways to a member state's preference, and there's no stopping having a points system because the directives aren't exclusive i.e. they do not prevent you from having other systems on top of the minimum things the EU mandates by directive. The immigration directives are generally only problematic to Eastern European member states who have extremely tight and draconian immigration policies, and it's basic level stuff like "if a person has a graduate degree, a job and gets a huge amount of money for it you should let them come." Most states already meet the requirements and only need slight changes to harmonize. Family reunifications for refugees similarly only have an EU mandated "floor" and most member states were well above said floor before last year's crisis, after which everyone began a race to the bottom to change their laws to the floor's level. Asylum stuff on the other hand comes primarily from international law, not EU law.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:24
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PT6A posted:Or they'll just fling poo poo at each other again, fail to form a government, and do this all over again in a few months. Bingo! (that's Spanish for Bingo)
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Jun 27, 2016 09:55
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Ligur posted:
Finland Immigrants look to be 55% male ; Sweden 53%. There is a bias towards young men but it is not very large. Certainly not a demographic disaster. Sullen bands of men hanging around are a pretty common feature of no-jobs slums though. No jobs are not limited. I don't know why all these educated and qualified natives are worried about skill less nonspeakers. They aren't even going after the same jobs presumably. Automation is a red herring at best; a particular industry can suffer heavily when mechanized but it is not like we are in the throes of industrial revolution II : robot buggaloo. It is not robots and it is not immigrants causing a job shortage.
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Jun 27, 2016 10:34
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I'm pretty sure nobody here said that immigrants are causing the job shortage. And the immigrants are definitely applying for the same jobs as the native population, at least here in finland. They just have trouble getting the job since they don't speak the language.
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Jun 27, 2016 10:43
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Sereri posted:Scotland should start building a wall, to keep the English rapists and murderers out. The English will even pay for the wall. This actually exists
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Jun 27, 2016 10:51
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Hadrian's Wall is wholly within England's borders.
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Jun 27, 2016 10:53
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YF-23 posted:Hadrian's Wall is wholly within England's borders. That's because the english have been encroaching on sacred scotish ground for centuries. It's time the scots take their country back.
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Jun 27, 2016 10:59
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Andrast posted:I'm pretty sure nobody here said that immigrants are causing the job shortage. I should've said 'competing for'. If they can't get the job it doesn't really matter that they applied. Refugee/migrant populations have been around in these EU nations for quite some time now. Automation or not, economic malaise or not, there has been more than sufficient time for economies to adjust. When we are talking decade+, the number of jobs that have been created to cope with population growth alone is pretty huge... to say nothing of the regular churn. They are locked out of the local economies either thru legal or practical barriers. (Language isn't as big a deal as u might think, tho it is important.)
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Jun 27, 2016 11:03
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Automation is a red herring at best; a particular industry can suffer heavily when mechanized but it is not like we are in the throes of industrial revolution II : robot buggaloo. It is not robots and it is not immigrants causing a job shortage. What. Do you just assume that as long as you dont see Terminator sweeping streets outside, jobs aren't being lost to automatization? Just look at the worker productivity vs wage graph people post every time min. wage debate happens. That rise in productivity is not because people are less lazy nowdays. And if single worker can do job of three and the company as no room to expand, that's 2/3 of the jobs gone.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:09
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Finland Immigrants look to be 55% male ; Sweden 53%. There is a bias towards young men but it is not very large. Certainly not a demographic disaster. Sullen bands of men hanging around are a pretty common feature of no-jobs slums though. As someone who works in the IT and logistics side of the auto industry you are very very wrong on that last point.the next 10 years will see a massive implementation of automation in heavy industry and their supply chain.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:13
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To complement:its not just production Line Jobs.those 10 people doing TPS reports are sudently no longer needed because you have an integrated IT plataform with everything in your factory/warehouse doing their work for 1/5 of the cost.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:23
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The economy isn't gonna work if people can't afford to buy stuff though, so that needs to be solved.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:24
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His Divine Shadow posted:The economy isn't gonna work if people can't afford to buy stuff though, so that needs to be solved. Smash capitalism?
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Jun 27, 2016 11:33
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Automate the guillotine.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:42
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His Divine Shadow posted:The economy isn't gonna work if people can't afford to buy stuff though, so that needs to be solved. "Starve everyone and let the most vicious fight over the bodies" is a solution too
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Jun 27, 2016 11:48
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ChainsawCharlie posted:As someone who works in the IT and logistics side of the auto industry you are very very wrong on that last point.the next 10 years will see a massive implementation of automation in heavy industry and their supply chain. What does that have to do with employment over the past ten years or so? Not much at all, I'd say. My 2 cents on the robot future is that a universal stipend is the way forward. But the robot future is still a future. Industries have been slowly mechanizing for decades (or centuries). I dont know where the breakpoints gonna be but we arnt there yet. And a universal stipend kinda clashes with complaints itt about benefits for mugrants.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:50
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I think we'll see robotic workers get a consumer AI and a wage before we'll see fair income redistribution.
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Jun 27, 2016 11:53
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IRL examples of automatization in the IT industry: 10 years ago when you needed an "IT system" (let's say, a server or a group of such which provide X and Y to Z) a bearded guy with a ponytail and a receding hairline would enclose himself into a room full of humming racks and nefarious bundles of cables, and configure Debian for two days or wait for Windows updates to install while drinking coffee and editing GPO's. Today a you log on to Amazon Web Services, choose a computer machine system, and click "I want that". It's online in 5 minutes and costs next to nothing to stay there. You don't need the rack room and since setting up stuff is so simple and maintenance so simplified, you probably need only 1 or 2 bearded guys with receding hairlines instead of the 4 or 5 in the past to maintain your operations. Back in the day when I installed an operating system, I would shove a CD-ROM to a player and be finished the next day or the day after if there were complex enterprise software to slap in addition to that - these days I boot from the network, press the button "A" and the image will be up and running in 20 minutes after one single person somewhere prepared the image, and it will work for all the 1000 computers at the department. No need for manuals, installation guides or field engineers who have read them. Heck, even hardware failures are rare compared to what it was in 1996 or 2006. Automagization cost me my job in the IT by the way, so I changed careers. (Lucky me, I hated that poo poo.) But most of what I'm doing these days would be impossible if I didn't have a couple of fluent languages 99% of the locals speak as well to go with other communication skills and years and years of experience. Anyway. The idea that you can just plop dudes from some East-African country who have vanished passports, perhaps speak a Hamiatic language (yet perhaps unable to write it), and have no work record into the Eurozone and make it great success for everyone is rather far fetched. The vast majority of such people will have to either depend on the subsidies of the local taxpayers for most of their lives or then find a job in an industry created because they came there in the first place (for exmple Somalis in Finland who have learned a local language often work as translators for other Somalis who need public health care, the social services, or at the court) or depend on the constantly diminishing low skilled labour market, filling shelves at the super market, sweeping streets, or driving a bus. You often hear a claim that "gaaahh, Europeans woldent do those jobes" but the argument fails in the simple premise that shelves were filled and streets were swept even before mass immigration from Africa or Asia. And it takes such a heck of a long time for non-OECD migrants to find any sort of work in Europe. The days when Western/Northern Europe actually could use and even required foreigners in simple line work, in factories or the infra are decades in the past.
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Jun 27, 2016 12:03
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