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indigi posted:While we're on the subject, is there any milSF that isn't written by some sort of vet, military historian, or neocon clearly jerking off about guns, wasting I've made this recc in this thread before, but my go-to for cool space battles without regrettable political baggage is the Succession duology by Scott Westerfeld 
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Jun 25, 2016 05:35
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Amberskin posted:In the really bad-and-cheesy department (and by bad I mean REALLY loving BAD), you have the "Undying mercenaries" series, by B.V. Larson. Humanity has been contacted by a galactic empire, and the galactic laws say a civilization has to be able to contribute with something to the global wealth or be exterminated. The only thing mankind has to sell is military units. Formed by disfunctional FPS players. Who fight against dinosaurs. And cephalopods. And gently caress a lot. Libluini posted:So those FPS-players pretending to be soldiers are not only dangers for everyone around them, they can also be reused to kill more of their own side's soldiers? Sounds great. How many times can they revive before the trauma of dying over and over again finally shatters their mind so they have to be replaced? TBH, I'd say read the first one just for the laughs. The second one is a lost more boring and even worse in terms of the protagonist being a complete failure at being a decent human being, while also loving everything with a vagina and killing all the bad guys himself. There was one other sci-fi series I went through as a podcast audiobook years ago which is actually worse about the protagonist just having the miraculous ability to cause every pair of panties within 100 meters to drop whenever he wants.. It was named something like "Half Share, iirc" edit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AMO7VM4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 coyo7e fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 18:45
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I hardly remember the first book. The second one is boring as hell. The third one is utterly stupid. I vaguely remember the legion he gets in at first book, which is the worst one according to statistics, is really the one and only important one just because. And he fucks his boss, also.
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Jun 25, 2016 20:16
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I thought it has some cool concepts that I would love to see a different author tackle (the Secret galactic empire and earth as mercenaries) but 100% agree with you coyo7e. For some decent mil sci fi I always recommend Rick Shelley's Lucky 13th series. Basically just future WW2. No weird politics, no weird sex, no Mary Sues.
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Jun 25, 2016 23:54
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coyo7e posted:There was one other sci-fi series I went through as a podcast audiobook years ago which is actually worse about the protagonist just having the miraculous ability to cause every pair of panties within 100 meters to drop whenever he wants.. It was named something like "Half Share, iirc"
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Jun 26, 2016 05:27
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FastestGunAlive posted:I thought it has some cool concepts that I would love to see a different author tackle (the Secret galactic empire and earth as mercenaries) but 100% agree with you coyo7e. In this series you'll find the "Earth as mercenaries" concept, but no "secret empire" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Damned_Trilogy
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Jun 26, 2016 11:35
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FastestGunAlive posted:No weird politics, no weird sex, no Mary Sues. I like how the genre's in a place where this is a necessary filter. 
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Jun 26, 2016 16:55
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Amberskin posted:In this series you'll find the "Earth as mercenaries" concept, but no "secret empire" I thought these books were pretty good when I read them as a teen. Wonder if they hold up. The basic premise is that humans are fairly unique as a race in that we can actually engage in violence. Nearly every other alien species evolved to be communal/pacifist, so humanity scares the gently caress out of everyone even though our tech sucks, because we can and do just kill the gently caress out of people and aliens just can't deal with that.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:15
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WarLocke posted:I thought these books were pretty good when I read them as a teen. Wonder if they hold up. I'll have to see if I can dig these out. I've got them somewhere in a box in the attic. One thing I remember being delighted about, is that while technologically inferior humans were just about peerless when it came to combat and waging war. Humanity is described (in comparison to other races), as moving lightening quick, having very dense musculature, and a willingness to commit violence bordering on psychotic. I think there was a feline-based society that were the preeminent warriors, but they were not quite as physically adept and our ability to work towards a common goal in cooperative groups was unique as well (that last bit may be me filling in something that wasn't the case, it's been almost 20 years). It was different from all the "humanity is weaker, dumber, and more primitive than everyone else, but we're just plucky enough to operate on their level as peers". In these, WE were the boogeyman in terms of how dangerous we were.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:34
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Yeah, there was something about Earth being really strange as a planet because most planets ended up with one Pangaea-like single landmass, with much milder climates and very few natural barriers. Humanity evolving on a planet with a bunch of mountain/water barriers between pockets of civilization (Earth had an excess of tectonic activity or something) led to tribalism and lots of fighting among ourselves, which was really aberrant compared to almost all the other aliens, who evolved on single landmasses and tended to be some type of communal/cooperative herbivore who never needed to run fast or fight hard. I think Earth had more of an axial tilt and/or heavier gravity and that also factored into why humans were so much faster than everyone else? I really liked the fact that humanity was the boogeyman in those books. e: IIRC the cat people were the de facto 'police/military' type troops when that sort of thing was needed, but only because unlike other aliens they didn't outright go catatonic after engaging in violence. At least not every time.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:53
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Ah, yes, the 'badass humans' trope. I have to admit I always liked that one. http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4786683/Humans+are+badass/
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Jun 26, 2016 21:38
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Kesper North posted:Ah, yes, the 'badass humans' trope. I have to admit I always liked that one. http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4786683/Humans+are+badass/ "Oh god the humans figured out door handles" 
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Jun 26, 2016 21:44
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Way I see it, the only thing that's economically worth fighting an interstellar war is trying to prevent the spread of an idea or technology so dangerous your species doesn't want to risk being contaminated by it, or risky behavior on the part of your interstellar neighbors that you think could end up screwing you as well (like tampering with their star and putting surrounding systems at risk to their sun going supernova) or unintentionally creating/summoning weakly godlike agencies that want to enslave or consume the mind of every sentient in the neighborhood. In the space opera series I'm working on, humans are regarded as dangerous due to our being willing to research and adopt any sort of crazy-assed technology without fear of the consequences. Our first contact was with a species that uses pheromones to rigorously enforce a caste system; genetic engineering could level the playing field for the mistreated but more numerous lower castes and ostracized no-castes (individuals who are caste-blind, or who do not exude their own command pheromones). The spacegoing humans in my universe are transhuman shading to post; genetic engineering is a boutique industry for them, and the first aliens we run into regard the very idea as an existential threat to their way of life. And then there's the revolutionary faction who want to buy a fix for the caste issue from mercenary human scientists... Then there's the species of uplifted lab critters that live in the shattered remains of their progenitor species' hard-takeoff singularity (which seems to have gone off the rails at some point, leaving the wreckage of vast megastructures and other fascinating things in their home system that humans would just love to get their hands on) and are not at all fond of their creators. They fear anything that could result in their creators' return from wherever they went, assuming they aren't all dead - and the fact that humans stuff themselves full of technology and hang out with AIs all the time worries them deeply. So pretty soon we have a reputation as suicidally reckless, dangerous, disruptive mad scientists who refuse to leave anyone alone and, unfortunately, have all the best toys.
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Jun 26, 2016 22:01
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Kesper North posted:Way I see it, the only thing that's economically worth fighting an interstellar war is trying to prevent the spread of an idea or technology so dangerous your species doesn't want to risk being contaminated by it, or risky behavior on the part of your interstellar neighbors that you think could end up screwing you as well (like tampering with their star and putting surrounding systems at risk to their sun going supernova) or unintentionally creating/summoning weakly godlike agencies that want to enslave or consume the mind of every sentient in the neighborhood. I want to read this.
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Jun 26, 2016 22:12
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Kesper North posted:Way I see it, the only thing that's economically worth fighting an interstellar war is trying to prevent the spread of an idea or technology so dangerous your species doesn't want to risk being contaminated by it, or risky behavior on the part of your interstellar neighbors that you think could end up screwing you as well (like tampering with their star and putting surrounding systems at risk to their sun going supernova) or unintentionally creating/summoning weakly godlike agencies that want to enslave or consume the mind of every sentient in the neighborhood. subscribe e: is this how you do it?
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Jun 26, 2016 22:14
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StrixNebulosa posted:I want to read this. Seconded.
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Jun 26, 2016 22:48
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:3 I'm planning to just shove the first novel set in that universe out on the internet for free; y'all will be the first to hear. Unfortunately it's not from the "space opera" series I'm setting in the same universe so you won't get to see aliens yet; instead it deals with with the complex relationship between Earth and the interstellar civilization it gave birth to, which calls itself the Centauri Consortium in honor of the first extrasolar system it colonized. (The Consortium itself was founded as a business proposition of sorts; it's post-scarcity but explicitly not utopian, as it is designed primarily to ensure that jaded immortals have enough struggle to keep them entertained.). The less ethical corporations that make up the Consortium are getting rich(er) engaging in disaster capitalism on the war-torn, sun-scorched homeworld while looting its cultural treasures for rich collectors back home and smuggling in illegal offworld biotech to disrupt the Consortium Economic Protocol Council's carefully-laid roadmap for the Uplift Initiative, a joint venture intended to bring Earth into the interstellar community without causing even more suffering on the benighted homeworld. (If you're thinking this sounds like a metaphor for our middle eastern adventures - you're right!) Our heroine is a storystringer, a freelancer who wanders Earth collecting the oral history of its people, packaging it as entertainment and flogging it for ad impressions on the interstellar equivalent of the internet. A Roscoskiy* station brat who grew up refurbishing hypersonic ramscoops in her dad's gasdiving operation on Korolev Station (which orbits Blue Danube, the Proxima Centauri system's sole gas giant; we can't see it because it doesn't transit the star from Earth's perspective), she fell in love with wide open spaces and real planets with deep human history. Her itinerant wanderings are intended to be somewhat dangerous, as danger makes for a good story, but when her blapdrone* bodyguard suddenly targets a young bar patron for assasination, she is catapulted into the intrigue and danger of the power struggles of her culture's posthuman, immortal elite - and learns that perhaps Earth was not left entirely to its own devices during the the centuries before the Consortium resumed contact. She will uncover a conspiracy that kept Earth in ruins far longer than it should have been. The book I write after this will follow the crew of an indentured** survey ship as it makes contact with the second set of aliens I mentioned in the previous post for the first time, and it'll have all the space opera-y goodness I can stuff into it. It opens when a Consortium systemcrawler (think a Google search-engine spider, but for space) has an accidental encounter with an alien starship that uses an Alcubierre warp drive*** instead of wormholes like everyone else. The probe gets wiped out by the bow wave of heavy particles an Alcubierre warpship brings with it; the aliens scoop up the wreckage, and humanity must establish good relations with the aliens and get their probe back before the aliens who are terrified of cybernetics and AI realize that the probe in their hold is sentient. * An ethnic Russian descended primarily from Roscosmos employees. ** Yeah, it's a post-scarcity society, but starships are still nontrivial expenditures of resources. The captain of a survey ship is literally indentured to their investors until they make enough entertaining or commercially viable discoveries to meet a certain ROI, and they have a Due Dilligence Officer standing over them the whole time to make sure they don't squander valuable corporate assets - or leave potential resources unleveraged. Which noble scientist-explorers who are in it for the wonder and joy of exploration just loooooooooove. *** Where'd they get the negative-mass exotic matter needed for such a thing? Why, from the wreckage of the megastructures of their elder civilization. Too bad they only have enough for one of them. I guess they'd better cozy up to the Consortium in hopes of being able to buy knowledge of the Glitch. **** I did an end-run around the FTL problem: In this universe, the Simulation Hypothesis is real, and you can perform a buffer overflow attack on the background sim by observing things at too fine a scale in too short a span of time. Relativity is an attempt to keep events synched across distributed nodes in the substrate but whoever created the sim seems not to have planned for the natives figuring out they were in a sim and escalating priveleges. And yes, I will be heavily interrogating the potential social consequences of a proven Simulation Hypothesis and the fact that interstellar travel depends on the great devops team in the sky not noticing. Let's hope our universe doesn't get turned off because its hosting lab lost funding in favor of a faith-based abstinence program.) The third series chronicles the events of a PMC on the northern side of the Second American Civil War in the runup to the events that cause the megacorporations that will go on to form the Consortium to abandon Earth. I like to call it my pinko liberal military SF novel. I'm pretty excited 
Kesper North fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 23:36
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flosofl posted:I'll have to see if I can dig these out. I've got them somewhere in a box in the attic. This is kinda dumb because humans are pretty weak for Earth creatures, even compared to the other apes. Pretty much all of them physically superior to us in most ways. About the only things humans have going for them is we're pretty okay at walking and our brains are pretty good.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:56
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Internet Wizard posted:This is kinda dumb because humans are pretty weak for Earth creatures, even compared to the other apes. Pretty much all of them physically superior to us in most ways. Wide range heat/cold adaptation, highest stamina of any being on earth, highest intelligence, omnivorous, we are a pretty good apex predator and make wolves look tame by comparison. Even removing tool use and language humans are superior to almost any other animal in many categories. Washout fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 00:39
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Humans get pretty miserable if the temperature starts dropping below the mid-60s, especially if they get wet as well. Highest stamina of any being on earth is debatable, and certainly not true of the average human from a modern society. Also the post I was responding to was about writing where humans were considered above the galactic norm in speed and muscle density, and again we're basically the worst of the apes in those regards.
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Jun 27, 2016 00:59
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Internet Wizard posted:Humans get pretty miserable if the temperature starts dropping below the mid-60s, especially if they get wet as well. Highest stamina of any being on earth is debatable, and certainly not true of the average human from a modern society. I was mostly responding to "pretty weak for earth creatures", we really are not, the saying, "the combination is greater than the whole", especially applies to us as humans, we are crazy fast adaptable to many situations, modern first world people may be unaware of it in many cases but anyone who trains physically on a regular basis can see how we have a lot of potential, like if I take my highly athletic dog jogging during the day he's pretty much over it after 30 minutes or so, but I can run for much longer, and I'm not in that great of shape compared to people who really train.
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Jun 27, 2016 01:23
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Sure you can jog for a while but that still doesn't address the points of whether or not humans are physically powerful beings like the post I was originally responding to.
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Jun 27, 2016 01:45
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Kesper North posted:Way I see it, the only thing that's economically worth fighting an interstellar war is trying to prevent the spread of an idea or technology so dangerous your species doesn't want to risk being contaminated by it, or risky behavior on the part of your interstellar neighbors that you think could end up screwing you as well (like tampering with their star and putting surrounding systems at risk to their sun going supernova) or unintentionally creating/summoning weakly godlike agencies that want to enslave or consume the mind of every sentient in the neighborhood. While your ideas are awesome you are locking out huge concepts by assuming it's always expensive. Look at "The road less taken". Antigravity is a trivial thing most species discover during the age of sail. To the point their intergalactic spaceships are sealed with tar and they need to get to the next planet before their air goes bad.
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Jun 27, 2016 01:52
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Hughlander posted:While your ideas are awesome you are locking out huge concepts by assuming it's always expensive. Look at "The road less taken". Antigravity is a trivial thing most species discover during the age of sail. To the point their intergalactic spaceships are sealed with tar and they need to get to the next planet before their air goes bad. I'm mostly interested in writing fairly crunchy SF, to the point where I went through some pretty major mental gymnastics to make room for "FTL" travel in the first place. Interstellar wooden arks wouldn't really fit with what I'm going for, and isn't super interesting to me personally. (And Dan Simmons did interstellar trees better in Hyperion anyway.)
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Jun 27, 2016 02:02
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Kesper North posted:Way I see it, the only thing that's economically worth fighting an interstellar war is trying to prevent the spread of an idea or technology so dangerous your species doesn't want to risk being contaminated by it, or risky behavior on the part of your interstellar neighbors that you think could end up screwing you as well (like tampering with their star and putting surrounding systems at risk to their sun going supernova) or unintentionally creating/summoning weakly godlike agencies that want to enslave or consume the mind of every sentient in the neighborhood. Eh. This really depends on your level of technology, because time is a much more important measurement of distance than the actual physical distance is. What's a worse drive? 20 miles on the interstate at 70mph, or 5 miles of stop and go rush hour traffic? When somebody asks how far away you are, are you more likely to say "about a 3 hour drive" or "about 200 miles"? Hyperdrive, warp drive, wormholes, mass relays... any kind of fast FTL reduces the effective distance between stars and increases the effective danger level of interstellar civilizations. 50 light years is huge when the top speed is 0.2c, it's considerably less huge when you're traveling at something like Warp 7 and moving at 650c. If you're at the point where you are regularly interacting with other intelligent species, you are probably closer to the latter end of the scale than the former one.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:05
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Space is big. Really, really big. Even if it's affordable to go to war with another species, is the ROI there? Why not go somewhere else? Yes, this argument ceases to matter if cost goes down far enough - but I am not optimistic that it will.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:10
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Kesper North posted::3 I'm planning to just shove the first novel set in that universe out on the internet for free; y'all will be the first to hear. You should really try querying some agents! You might be surprised how well it goes. I'm not a huge fan of either the 'humans are wildly badass and terrifying' or 'humans are vanilla and mediocre but flexible and diverse' tropes. I think they tend to miss what's really weird about humans. To wit: The well-known physical stuff, our excellent running and thermoregulation An ongoing evolutionary arms race has made both our sexes wildly promiscuous and into porn, with lots of biological incentives for non-monogamy We are not very good at solving survival problems individually. 'Good at cognition' isn't our key to global success - it seems to be culture, the ability to stumble on innovations by chance, retain them, combine them, and refine them over many generations of variation. Until very very recently, when our cognitive culture outstripped our social culture, we basically solved problems with multi-generational human wave attacks. We are ridiculously inbred, to some stupid and unbelievable extent. Our genetic diversity absolutely collapsed at some past bottleneck and now we're ludicrously homogeneous. We probably look like some creepy Master Race. On the other hand, this has gifted us with a genuine biological basis for equality and enlightenment, since we're all pretty much the same! So that might work in our favor. In a 4X game we would be the inbred porn addicted marathon runner guys with a research penalty (due to our total inability to behave rationally) but a big culture bonus. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 02:18
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General Battuta posted:You should really try querying some agents! You might be surprised how well it goes. I'm in the old insecurity catch-22: I won't be convinced that my work is saleable until it sells, so my inherently pessimistic nature says it's better to shove the thing over the transom and leverage the poo poo out of social media, because no agent would be interested in something I would write.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:43
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Kesper North posted:I'm mostly interested in writing fairly crunchy SF, to the point where I went through some pretty major mental gymnastics to make room for "FTL" travel in the first place. Interstellar wooden arks wouldn't really fit with what I'm going for, and isn't super interesting to me personally. (And Dan Simmons did interstellar trees better in Hyperion anyway.) Ok, you didn't preface it with in your universe, so I was talking sci fi generically. And even as such you are one buffer overflow from remote code execution which is short for "Waldo" if you believe in tech it works.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:55
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Kesper North posted:Space is big. Really, really big. Even if it's affordable to go to war with another species, is the ROI there? Why not go somewhere else? A lot of this is driven by technology, really. If your FTL system relies on wormholes, then control of wormholes can be vitally important. If you have a Mass Effect style FTL(the non-relay one) that requires you to discharge static buildup occasionally, then control of discharge points could be important. If you have a limited FTL distance and need a gravity assist to get into FTL, then systems with planets might be critical nodes on a certain jump path. Maybe it's dependent on some kind of incredibly rare mineral and sources of that mineral are worth attacking. This really just comes down to "Interstellar warfare is as practical as the author wants it to be."
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Jun 27, 2016 03:09
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Khizan posted:This really just comes down to "Interstellar warfare is as practical as the author wants it to be." My point, so eloquently concise.
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Jun 27, 2016 03:15
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Kesper North posted:I'm in the old insecurity catch-22: I won't be convinced that my work is saleable until it sells, so my inherently pessimistic nature says it's better to shove the thing over the transom and leverage the poo poo out of social media, because no agent would be interested in something I would write. No, don't! I mean there's the outside chance you could blow up as an indie author like The Martian, that could totally work. But take the shot on an agent. You have nothing to lose and possibly six figures to gain!
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Jun 27, 2016 03:21
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Kesper North posted:I'm in the old insecurity catch-22: I won't be convinced that my work is saleable until it sells, so my inherently pessimistic nature says it's better to shove the thing over the transom and leverage the poo poo out of social media, because no agent would be interested in something I would write. There's no harm in trying. The time investment in a few dozen queries is small compared to the potential payoff.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:56
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Is the wait time on agent submissions any better than it is to magazines? Because I am not waiting six months per submission for a reply, I'll die of old age before I get an agent let alone a sale -.-
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Jun 27, 2016 05:15
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Usually if you haven't heard back in 6 to 8 weeks that's a no, but individual agents set their own rules, which they state in their submission guidelines. Traditional publishing moves very slowly, and there's a lot of waiting at virtually every stage, even once you're working with an agent, so if you don't like waiting it may not be for you.
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Jun 27, 2016 12:45
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Unlike magazines, you can shotgun your submission to as many agents as you want.
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Jun 27, 2016 15:30
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Danknificent posted:Usually if you haven't heard back in 6 to 8 weeks that's a no, but individual agents set their own rules, which they state in their submission guidelines. Traditional publishing moves very slowly, and there's a lot of waiting at virtually every stage, even once you're working with an agent, so if you don't like waiting it may not be for you. Well, nobody likes waiting, but for personal reasons I have a set amount of time that I can devote to this experiment before I have to go back into the software industry and can't write full time anymore. (I know from long experience that if I'm not writing full time, I don't write at all; I just can't maintain the headspace I need to be in.) That said, I can extend that leeway a bit if it looks like there is a payoff eventually coming, and I'm lucky to be in a position where I can do this at all. General Battuta posted:Unlike magazines, you can shotgun your submission to as many agents as you want. That makes me a lot more excited about the idea of trying this. If I can wait two months to see if I hear from an agent then self-publish if it goes nowhere, rather than having to try a dozen agents in sequence, it sounds a lot more worth trying. A dozen agents, at 6-8 weeks apiece, would be two years, which is why I was saying "Oh gently caress that noise!" Thanks for the information to both of you! As an aside, if any goons want to read/comment on the first draft when it's done, shoot me a PM and I'll make a list.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:53
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The most important part of your submission to agents will be your cover letter. Please feel free to bounce it off me. It is really important that you get it right, as important as the actual novel itself. The cover letter is basically the hook for the novel - it's not (just) a summary, it's a tiny story that grabs the agent and says 'you must read more!'
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Jun 27, 2016 22:44
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WarLocke posted:I thought these books were pretty good when I read them as a teen. Wonder if they hold up. Also there was some other novels about space french foreign legion which was still kicking rear end and riding on their actgion in the mexican american war, I think maybe that was Weber or Drake. I liked those. Miss-Bomarc posted:Haha, I remember those! At least, I remember the first one. I remember reading an essay by the author where he expresses pride in the fact that there aren't really "action scenes" in his books, because of course that's totally unrealistic and not appropriate for most stories about space people! They're not that bad, it's just that the protagonist be fuckin' everybody, constantly.
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Jun 27, 2016 22:51
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coyo7e posted:Also there was some other novels about space french foreign legion which was still kicking rear end and riding on their actgion in the mexican american war, I think maybe that was Weber or Drake. I liked those. Weber did the Prince Roger books which are kind of like that but I don't think they're what you're thinking of. Also The Excalibur Alternative which is a stand-alone 'primitive humans get kidnapped to be alien mercenaries' book (which seems to be a whole subgenre in itself).
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Jun 28, 2016 01:49
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