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Jordbo posted:Oh, okay. Maybe I'm slow, but... what's the point of leveling luck if the raw damage output is the same, and the bleed buildup is mostly from the Carthus Rouge? Like, if you're using a bleed weapon buffed with Carthus Rouge... how many hits does it take to proc bleed if you have 40 Luck and hollow infusion, and how many hits does it take if you have 10 Luck and refined? Is the difference significant? I don't know the exact numbers, but it's pretty significant. On a dex build, I tried bringing Warden Twinblades to Dancer with Carthus Rouge, and couldn't get bleed to proc at all. Luck Build, 2-3 swings.
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Jun 26, 2016 15:51
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I'm pretty sure the bleed number on the weapon (which increases as you add more luck) signifies how much damage the bleed effect does when it procs, not how fast bleed builds. I think the Rouge increases the bleed buildup by tons, but not necessarily the bleed damage. I haven't done super extensive research on it, but that's the way it seems to work for me. It also means that bleed infusion might not be as terrible as people claim it is.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:05
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Rough Lobster posted:I'm pretty sure the bleed number on the weapon (which increases as you add more luck) signifies how much damage the bleed effect does when it procs, not how fast bleed builds. I think the Rouge increases the bleed buildup by tons, but not necessarily the bleed damage. No, the base bleed damage is 18%, not the 30-whatever weapons show. That's the build-up. Bleed Infusion does increase the damage output (50 at base, then +10 every level, up to +150 bleed damage at +10), but it's not a big deal.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:18
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So... I spent way too long testing this, and I'm gonna write it all up to justify it. I first fought an Evangelist, using Carthus Rouge with two builds: Build 1: 34str/40dex/40luck Hollowed Carthus Curved Sword +10 (41 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 2 Pure bleed damage: 334 Hollowed Warden Twinblades +10 (40 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 2 Pure bleed damage: 334 Build 2: 40str/40dex/14luck Refined Carthus Curved Sword +10 (34 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 2 Pure bleed damage: 384 Refined Warden Twinblades +10 (34 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 2 Pure bleed damage: 384 I tried doing the same against the Dancer, again using Carthus Rouge: Build 1: 34str/40dex/40luck Hollowed Carthus Curved Sword +10 (41 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 4 Pure bleed damage: 546 Hollowed Warden Twinblades +10 (40 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 4 Pure bleed damage: 546 L1 hits to bleed: 3 L2 combo bleeds instantly: yes Build 2: 40str/40dex/14luck Refined Carthus Curved Sword +10 (34 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 5 Pure bleed damage: 546 Refined Warden Twinblades +10 (34 "bleed" stat) R1 hits to bleed: 5 Pure bleed damage: 546 L1 hits to bleed: 4 L2 combos bleeds instantly: no Conclusion Against Evangelists: Refined weapons to more bleed damage. Bleed procs in same number of hits. Against the Dancer: Refined and Hollow weapons to the same amount of bleed damage. Hollow infused weapons bleed in fewer hits. ... isn't it weird that hollow infused weapons to less bleed damage than refined? Why is that? I should really try this against a normal enemy with more bleed resist to see if Hollow weapons bleed in fewer hits, but I'm not going to because why am I even doing this, this is crazy edit: also this is in NG+, if anyone even cares
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Jun 26, 2016 17:51
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You should have tested them with equal luck though. Your methodology is flawed and I will see to it that the journal rejects your paper and your academic career to fall into shambles.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:05
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Rigged Death Trap posted:You should have tested them with equal luck though. Maybe? But that wasn't the point of the test - I just wanted to test the viability of a low luck bleed build. I SHOULD have kept strength the same between the tests though. And I really should have used a build with less Luck to begin with, but I could only test it with a Thief character. edit: and by viable I mean capable of bleeding enemies in a reasonable number of hits while dealing good bleed damage please don't reject my paper yet, I've spent my whole life researching the issue of bleed Dark Souls 3, don't let it be for naught Jordbo fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 18:12
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Jordbo posted:So... I spent way too long testing this, and I'm gonna write it all up to justify it. I first fought an Evangelist, using Carthus Rouge with two builds: Hold on, so you used 2 R1 attacks to proc bleed with the twin blades? I didn't think that was possible. I usually get a bleed after two L1 attacks because I thought it made the bleed stack up faster due to the 4 actual hits you were inflicting. Using Carthus Rouge too of course.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:13
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I want to upgrade a greataxe to +10, forget about PVP, what greataxe would be the best/cooler for PVE? I have the Greataxe, Great Machete and Yhorm's Great Machete sitting at my inventory, wich one would be the best? Stamina consumption, weight and all that poo poo since I like all three for fashion souls.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:32
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Dragonslayer Greataxe is pretty amazing, though kinda late. Of the three you have, I think a Heavy Greataxe is the strongest, though.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:41
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MarshyMcFly posted:Hold on, so you used 2 R1 attacks to proc bleed with the twin blades? I didn't think that was possible. I usually get a bleed after two L1 attacks because I thought it made the bleed stack up faster due to the 4 actual hits you were inflicting. Using Carthus Rouge too of course. I went back in and tried it again: yeah, it takes two R1 attacks or two L1 attacks to bleed the poor Evangelist outside the Cathedral. So even though the L1 hits twice, it doesn't build up as much bleed as two R1 attacks - it just does more damage. Although it could be that the L1 builds up bleed faster than the R1 and I can't see the difference because the Evangelist has too low bleed resist.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:51
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Jordbo posted:I went back in and tried it again: yeah, it takes two R1 attacks or two L1 attacks to bleed the poor Evangelist outside the Cathedral. So even though the L1 hits twice, it doesn't build up as much bleed as two R1 attacks - it just does more damage. Although it could be that the L1 builds up bleed faster than the R1 and I can't see the difference because the Evangelist has too low bleed resist. To be specific, L1's on Onikiri and Warden build up 1.5x the bleed. Which is reasonably significant, but not relevant for this experiment.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:52
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Guillermus posted:I want to upgrade a greataxe to +10, forget about PVP, what greataxe would be the best/cooler for PVE? I have the Greataxe, Great Machete and Yhorm's Great Machete sitting at my inventory, wich one would be the best? Stamina consumption, weight and all that poo poo since I like all three for fashion souls. Yhorm's is the best. Greataxe is good too, but Yhorm's can put out an insane amount of hurt.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:52
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Thanks for the suggestions, didn't notice how much bigger Yhorm's is, it has almost the double of the range of the greataxe.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:00
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Supremezero posted:To be specific, L1's on Onikiri and Warden build up 1.5x the bleed. Which is reasonably significant, but not relevant for this experiment. Really? I swear it was the 4th hit with the dual attacks that triggered bleed for me.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:27
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Yhorm's Greataxe is insanely strong, better AR than the vanilla Greataxe and its like twice as long. It also chews through stamina like no tomorrow. I like the DSGA personally but honestly greataxes as a weapon class can do no wrong.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:04
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I've killed these Black Knights with the greatswords at least 20 times with the coin used. Kind of want this prior to ng+ since this is a strength character. Have doubles of all the other drops. e: through the power of complaint, I have received my works reward. Phuzun fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 20:33
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RyokoTK posted:Yhorm's Greataxe is insanely strong, better AR than the vanilla Greataxe and its like twice as long. It also chews through stamina like no tomorrow. I like the DSGA personally but honestly greataxes as a weapon class can do no wrong. I ignored greataxes on DS3 until this new str char and I'm enjoying them a lot. Yhorm's only downside is the weight, 19 units is a lot and I had to pump vitality to 20 but hey, hits like a truck and has great reach. I can use charged R2 and see enemies charge and me and getting splat for insane damage. I only used greataxes on DS1 (BKGA and Demon's Greataxe) since I didn't like them on DS2 as they all were too short and heavy to justify their use.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:00
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Jordbo posted:So... I spent way too long testing this, and I'm gonna write it all up to justify it. I first fought an Evangelist, using Carthus Rouge with two builds: Okay so bleed mechanics: 1) Luck directly increases the Bleed stat on your equipped weapon. Luck has no other effect here, it only increases the rate at which you inflict Bleed 2) The Bleed stat only effects the rate that Bleed builds up. The Bleed stat does not effect Bleed damage at all. 3) At a minimum, the Bleed effect always at least causes an enemy to lose 18% of its health. 4) Bleed damage is increased by either A) using the Blood Gem infusion (+10 damage per upgrade level, plus a flat +50 damage if the weapon innately had a Bleed effect, so anywhere from +0 to +200 damage) or B) triggering bleed on a counter-hit, meaning that you hit your opponent and manage to proc bleed while they're in the middle of an attack, which adds a flat +50 bleed damage. That's the difference in bleed damage that you noticed in your first tests: in one case you must have been counter-hitting while in the other you weren't. 5) Hollow weapons give up to +5 luck at max upgrade, so you might get a small boost to the Bleed stat but the Bleed damage will be the same vs a Refined weapon. 6) Warden Twinblades (and the dual-katana things that I always forget the name of) are a special case for bleed buildup: their L1/L2 attacks only build up 0.75x bleed per blade swing. But this modifier is only applied to the innate Bleed that these weapons come with; you get the full benefits of Carthus Rouge to both weapons no matter what button you're mashing.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:07
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The problem that greataxes have in DS2 is that great hammers are better in every conceivable way, including having the Strike damage type which completely wrecks that game. Plus pretty much every ultragreatsword has a superior move set for the same damage. In DS3 most UGS have bad move sets and fewer enemies are weak to Strike damage so the greataxe advantage is more distinguished.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:10
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Also there's little lightning resist compared to other games and the dragonslayer great axe can wreck things easily.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:25
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Where should I go learn to parry effectively? Lothric knights? I want to wear the Archdeacon set so bad while invading with Aldrich, but I just get torn to shreds. I'm still garbage at pvp in this game.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:26
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If you want to get better at parrying in PvP then all you can really do is practice parrying in PvP. Parrying is like 95% predicting what the enemy is going to do and maybe 5% reading attack animations. If you try parrying Lothric Knights then all you will achieve is getting really good at parrying Lothric Knights.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:35
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Ineffiable posted:Also there's little lightning resist compared to other games and the dragonslayer great axe can wreck things easily. As far as I can recall that's always been true for lightning, at least relatively.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:38
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Spin Slash seems to yield universally disappointing results for damage, even on a heavy, high AR weapon like the Exile Greatsword. I got an unusual graphical glitch last night, with the pilgrim butterflies in the background above the grand archives having bright blue and green hues like the sort you'd see on a false-color thermal image. How is Darkdrift's length in comparison to the Uchi?
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Jun 26, 2016 21:42
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RyokoTK posted:If you want to get better at parrying in PvP then all you can really do is practice parrying in PvP. Parrying is like 95% predicting what the enemy is going to do and maybe 5% reading attack animations. Welp, time to get humiliated for hours on end then! I will get better at this if it takes me another 200 hours played, dammit.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:45
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Supremezero posted:As far as I can recall that's always been true for lightning, at least relatively. This is presumably why every goddamned source of lightning damage outside of weapons that naturally had it was nerfed into the goddamned dirt in DS2. Three casts from any offensive miracle, comparable to GHSA which gave you ten casts, and you don't get Sunlight Blade or whatever it's called until fuckin' Shrine of Amana. At which point pretty much all you have left is the DLC, and elemental damage is a goddamn dice roll there.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:58
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Supremezero posted:As far as I can recall that's always been true for lightning, at least relatively. Yeah I think I'm thinking of it in terms of how lightning was already nerfed a lot on ds1 and a little bit in ds2. Still time that the axe could get nerfed.
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Jun 26, 2016 22:52
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All right, thanks! I also just realized the information I was looking for was in the wiki: leveling Luck to 40 increases a Hollow Carthus Curved Sword's innate bleed by 8 (33 to 41), but Carthus Rouge adds 35! I was trying to figure out how important Carthus Rouge was compared Luck, and the difference is huge! Still, I'd only save around 4-6 levels from going with a Refined bleed build instead of Hollow - not really worth it.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:06
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Liking the big numbers on the dragonslayer axe. Not so much the moveset which seems Kind of short. Keep missing on roll attacks on tall bosses.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:08
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SynthOrange posted:Liking the big numbers on the dragonslayer axe. Not so much the moveset which seems This is more a problem with late-game bosses than the DSGA. End-game content IMO is really unfairly tuned toward fast pokey weapons and it really hangs slow smashy weapons out to dry. Nothing like perfectly dodging an entire volley of attacks from the final boss only to realize you don't have time to safely hit him once.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:15
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I dont know. I didnt have this sort of trouble with my vordts mace run. Great Hammers have nice big sweeping attacks while great axes just concentrate on a small zone in front of them.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:17
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SynthOrange posted:I dont know. I didnt have this sort of trouble with my vordts mace run. Great Hammers have nice big sweeping attacks while great axes just concentrate on a small zone in front of them. Having 8 slabs in NG lets you get a greathammer like the Spiked Mace and a greataxe so you can take advantage of everything. It's true that this game is more favorable towards fast weapons at least in most boss fights while in DS1/2 huge weapons were amazing. Hell, I could do full DS1 runs without using a single fast weapon while in DS3 I always need at least one straight sword or axe for certain enemies/fights. DS2 was waaaay more versatile in that regard with powerstancing.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:27
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RyokoTK posted:This is more a problem with late-game bosses than the DSGA. End-game content IMO is really unfairly tuned toward fast pokey weapons and it really hangs slow smashy weapons out to dry. Nothing like perfectly dodging an entire volley of attacks from the final boss only to realize you don't have time to safely hit him once. Uh, I've never even used a fast pokey weapon and I've never had any problems. I have, admittedly, used fast not pokey weapons, but I've also used big shiny weapons without trouble, so whatever.
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Jun 27, 2016 01:22
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A 40/40/40 hollow build will give you a pretty decent and varied arsenal, not just including bleed weapons. A hollow greatsword has an ar of like 670, and the twinspears go up to 395. I think all the paired weapons get a good damage boost actually, the katanas go up to 440 for example. You get a lot of great bleed weapons too of course, and they mostly do more raw damage, like the carthus curved sword gets an ar of 475. Fun stuff! edit: also, hollow gems are waaaaay less nightmarish to farm than refined gems and the damage will generally be higher if only a little. Stranger Danger Ranger fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 01:37
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Which one of you goons is player BallzzzzDeep66666667?!
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Jun 27, 2016 03:11
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SynthOrange posted:Liking the big numbers on the dragonslayer axe. Not so much the moveset which seems Yeah the range on the 2H roll attack sucks. Going one-handed pretty much solves it though.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:06
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so what do you think of my new pvp build? It is the worst thing I've ever created. I don't know if those stats are final - I can't decide if I want slightly less terrible AR or slightly less terrible defences. I totally win sometimes though - the Claw has a good weapon art and some fancy attacks (the rolling R1 is great, even if it only does 170 damage), and the dragon roar breaks through shields and adds a bit of damage. I also get to use Flynn's ring and the Wolf ring, which is great! I wish i could use the Twinkling Dragon Torso, but it doesn't have the range or damage to be useful, and it's way too slow since it doesn't have hyperarmor for some reason 
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Jun 27, 2016 11:17
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Jordbo posted:so what do you think of my new pvp build? The Wolf Ring is useless because Poise doesn't work and Ring of Steel's effect is disabled in pvp, you should ditch them both asap Filthy Hans fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 12:23
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Guillermus posted:I want to upgrade a greataxe to +10, forget about PVP, what greataxe would be the best/cooler for PVE? I have the Greataxe, Great Machete and Yhorm's Great Machete sitting at my inventory, wich one would be the best? Stamina consumption, weight and all that poo poo since I like all three for fashion souls. They're all really good weapons but I like the Greataxe the best. It takes some practice in PVE because of the shorter range but once you figure out the range and timing you'll be fine. The Heavy Greataxe slightly outdamages Yhorm's Great Machete and uses less stamina per swing than Yhorm's or Dragonslayer's Greataxe. I know you don't care about PVP but if you did the Greataxe has an advantage in that it has a guaranteed second hit if you land an R1, which is also true of the Dragonslayer's Greataxe but not Yhorm's or the regular Great Machete. It all comes down to preference, however, so try alternating them to see what works best. I really like the Daemon's Greataxe too but it requires an investment in magic stats to be worthwhile.
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Jun 27, 2016 13:01
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If you were to design a dual weapon dragon claws that were the dragon equivalent of the beast claws, how would you approach it? Personally, I'd go hog wild with the dragon illusions theme that they established with the twinkling stones and basically make it be like fighting with a dragon stand. They'd have "phantom" range because of the phantom dragon claws that show up when you swing, hah. I'dalso probably try to find a way to work fire breath into the L1 combo. Perhaps the 3rd hit being a dodge backwards using flame breath to propel yourself? Alternatively, some sort of leaping attack using phantom wings could be cool where you couldp ull off crazy swooping attacks like some sort of arial version of the Farron Greatsword.
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Jun 27, 2016 13:08
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