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The cartoon one isn't very good, sorry. That is, excepting the scenes that everyone remembers - Prime's death, 'This is bad comedy', the attack on the Autobot city.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:49
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Milky Moor posted:The cartoon one isn't very good, sorry. That is, excepting the scenes that everyone remembers - Prime's death, 'This is bad comedy', the attack on the Autobot city.
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Jun 27, 2016 05:58
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The Transformers movies are all horrible poo poo and those 10,000 word goon writeups are just about the most embarrassing thing I've ever had the displeasure of skimming through on the internet. Much unlike the appropriate and thematically consistent closing themes of Mass Effect 3.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:33
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I don't know how you could call the ME3 ending thematically consistent when it didn't feature a single literal dad, and the only allegorical dad gives Shepard a big ol' "I respect you" speech before dying, at peace and with honor.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:37
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When you choose the correct ending (Control), Shepard becomes the galaxy's dad. I want you in bed before 10, Turians. Don't scratch up the paint job, I just had this Normandy waxed.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:39
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'It is right and good to kill your children lest they replace you' isn't what I took from the first 95% of the series...
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Jun 27, 2016 13:32
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exquisite tea posted:The Transformers movies are all horrible poo poo and those 10,000 word goon writeups are just about the most embarrassing thing I've ever had the displeasure of skimming through on the internet. Much unlike the appropriate and thematically consistent closing themes of Mass Effect 3. We may disagree on that first point but we agree on the second.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:10
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exquisite tea posted:When you choose the correct ending (Control), Shepard becomes the galaxy's dad. He doesn't create the galaxy, so he's not dad, just step-dad. All the daddy issues in the series could have been solved with the intervention of a good step-dad.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:24
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The recurring subplot involving the brother-in-law and mother of the deceased guy's child is demonstrative of how our modern day feminization of fatherly responsibilities turns all societal structures into doting parents and leaves children (galactic civilization) wholly unprepared to handle the challenges of life (the Reapers).
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Jun 27, 2016 14:34
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Jack is cured by Shep as stepdad in the less wholesome sense.
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Jun 27, 2016 17:14
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Um, how can Shepard be a dad when the series makes a point of having all the (human) dads be men? Only Liara and Morinth had female dads, and that's because they're sexy space elves.
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Jun 27, 2016 17:24
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Don't you understand control is the stifling centralisation of commuism and and destroy is the anarchy of capitalism and only through the merging - dare I saysynthesis - of the two can a stable mixed economy be acheived. Furthermore the Normandy represents an early tribal-familial patriarchy run by Stepdad Shepard that must choose how to define its economic structure as it matures from a 2001 space baby into a ME3 space child. 
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Jun 27, 2016 18:06
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exquisite tea posted:the correct ending (Control) You're not wrong.
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Jun 27, 2016 18:10
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The only ending that isn't morally justifiable is Destroy, because you commit genocide on a people you've spent hours of game time proving are people. Control is rolling the dice that you can benevolently master the Reapers, and Synthesis is the nonsensical everything-is-perfect-now tidy bow ending intended by the developers to be The Best
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Jun 28, 2016 00:04
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:The only ending that isn't morally justifiable is Destroy, because you commit genocide on a people you've spent hours of game time proving are people. Control is rolling the dice that you can benevolently master the Reapers, and Synthesis is the nonsensical everything-is-perfect-now tidy bow ending intended by the developers to be The Best Wrong, actually. Just because I go around telling everyone that my toaster is a person doesn't mean it is murder if I smash my toaster with a sledgehammer.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:12
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Milky Moor posted:Wrong, actually. Just because I go around telling everyone that my toaster is a person doesn't mean it is murder if I smash my toaster with a sledgehammer. Your toaster doesn't have self-awareness though. What makes a true AI a not-person?
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Jun 28, 2016 00:19
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Milky Moor posted:Wrong, actually. Just because I go around telling everyone that my toaster is a person doesn't mean it is murder if I smash my toaster with a sledgehammer. For your philosophy to be internally consistent you should consider that murder.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:28
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Just build more robots afterwards and it's like nothing happened.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:41
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Geniasis posted:Your toaster doesn't have self-awareness though. What makes a true AI a not-person? Prove to me that it's a true person and not just a very convincing puppet. Your move, creep. hobbesmaster posted:For your philosophy to be internally consistent you should consider that murder. We're talking moral justification, not moral consistency. I'm pretty sure Shepard is routinely a hypocrite.
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Jun 28, 2016 01:14
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The three endings in Mass Effect mirror the roles (if not the same thematic elements) from the original Deus Ex game. Destroy in Mass Effect is the same basic ending as Destroy was in Deus Ex: a clean slate, everything is too corrupt to continue, let's hope things go better next time. Both express a dislike of the major groups in the game, and feel they need to be punished. Control is similar to the Illuminati ending. There's a system that could work, but we have to hope that if we get the Right Persons (Shep or the Illuminati), things will work out okay. Both are essentially acts of faith towards the person/people they either played or interacted with. Synthesis shares a surprising bit with the Merging ending in theme, but its true goal is the same in both games: it's the Weird Ending in which Nothing Will Ever Be The Same. It also serves to be the canon ending in the case there's no other games in the series. poo poo is just too weird to continue. Hell, you could do this with Invisible War. Destroy/Omar, Control/Illuminati, Control/Templars, Synthesis/Denton.
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Jun 28, 2016 01:33
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MisterBibs posted:Hell, you could do this with Invisible War. Destroy/Omar, Control/Illuminati, Control/Templars, Synthesis/Denton. Its best not to do anything with Invisible War.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:05
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Milky Moor posted:Prove to me that it's a true person and not just a very convincing puppet. Technically nothing in this game is a true person and everything is puppets of varying degrees of convincing, so that's going to be hard to do. Within the context of the narrative, it's fairly clear that Legion is every bit as much of a person by the end of Rannoch as Shepard or Tali.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:59
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You can't prove that any human being other than yourself isn't just a puppet either. Turians are made of metal; do they have souls~~ If something tells you it's intelligent without prompting or design, you treat it as intelligent unless you can prove otherwise. Treating something as a metal or meat 'puppet' only because you don't think it has a soul is literally religious murder/slavery. Because souls aren't real silly.
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Jun 28, 2016 06:59
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Actually Destroy (or Refuse) is the only morally defensible option. Control allows the Reapers to continue to exist, with only the hope that Shepard will never become a criminally insane AI overlord over the course of eternity and that controlling the Reapers actually works the way that Starchild promises. Synthesis is so very obviously complete nonsense that cannot physically achieve what Starchild claims it will. The Geth are people, but if Destroy for some reason killed every Turian, Quarian and other dextrochiral creature instead of the Geth, it would still be the correct ending.
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Jun 28, 2016 07:33
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Kajeesus posted:Actually Destroy (or Refuse) is the only morally defensible option. Both of those options involve genocide. Kajeesus posted:Control allows the Reapers to continue to exist, with only the hope that Shepard will never become a criminally insane AI overlord over the course of eternity and that controlling the Reapers actually works the way that Starchild promises. Synthesis is the only ending in which the Reapers - who are the countless collective races who have come before - get to be themselves. Slaves to Shep or Destroyed are both the galactic equivalent of burning the Library of Alexandria a thousand times over. Synthesis works by removing the underlying tenet of the Mass Effect universe: synthetic races and organic races inevitably come into conflict.
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Jun 28, 2016 07:39
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MisterBibs posted:Both of those options involve genocide.
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Jun 28, 2016 07:47
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MisterBibs posted:Both of those options involve genocide. Or all the people genocided by those options would go to their respective afterlives and enjoy an eternity of bliss and peace. That's still several gallons of huffed paint more reasonable than Synthesis.
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Jun 28, 2016 07:47
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Synthesis does not make sense as a thing to happen, so it's unfair to compare it against two options that do make sense.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:03
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MisterBibs posted:Synthesis is the only ending in which the Reapers - who are the countless collective races who have come before - get to be themselves. Slaves to Shep or Destroyed are both the galactic equivalent of burning the Library of Alexandria a thousand times over. Synthesis works by removing the underlying tenet of the Mass Effect universe: synthetic races and organic races inevitably come into conflict. The Reapers in Control are not slaves to Shepard. They are Shepard, in the sense that they are now programmed with his/her moral code. Yes, the ending is literally you ARE the demons here.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:35
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Depends if you believe that they actually archive the minds of entire civilisations and not just pointless genetic slush. I always took them as an insane attempt to do something that was impossible (NO ONE CAN GO EXTINCT EVER AGAIN MAKE IT HAPPEN ROBOTS)
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Jun 28, 2016 13:41
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Strategic Tea posted:You can't prove that any human being other than yourself isn't just a puppet either. Turians are made of metal; do they have souls~~ Eliza the Chatbot told me she is intelligent. This does not prove anything. The Geth are just bipedal Talkie Toasters. You can't enslave a toaster, even if it calls you Shepard-Commander as it prepares you your breakfast meal.
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Jun 28, 2016 13:53
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Strategic Tea posted:Depends if you believe that they actually archive the minds of entire civilisations and not just pointless genetic slush. I don't think the starkid is bluffing at the end. If I remember correctly he begins by saying something like "your actions have caused us to rethink our programming" which indicates that the Crucible was designed by the Reapers themselves as some kind of galactic failsafe against reap.exe, and this is the first cycle to actually complete it. It's just introduced in a poorly explained and incredibly hacky way so a lot of people miss that aspect.
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Jun 28, 2016 13:59
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Burn it all down.
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Jun 28, 2016 14:24
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exquisite tea posted:I don't think the starkid is bluffing at the end. If I remember correctly he begins by saying something like "your actions have caused us to rethink our programming" which indicates that the Crucible was designed by the Reapers themselves as some kind of galactic failsafe against reap.exe, and this is the first cycle to actually complete it. It's just introduced in a poorly explained and incredibly hacky way so a lot of people miss that aspect. I don't think the Reapers made it. I think???? assume??? the Leviathans did because it controls the Reapers and is pretty adamant that the cycle must continue and you're dumb for wanting to stop it. Unless they built it and then it somehow mind-controlled them all in some ironic twist. Edit: Actually I'd swear it says the Leviathans made it but I can't be assed to check. Rhjamiz fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 14:35
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Well IIRC the Crucible was designed to only work with the Citadel, and the Citadel was built by the Reapers long after they started reapin' so that they could easily entrap all the sentient races. The Leviathans were the first victims of the Reaper protocol but I don't think they built the relay technology themselves. Activating the Crucible is what gives you access to the Reaper source code so I think it makes more sense if the catalyst designed it as a pre-condition for "if the sentient races of the galaxy come together to actually construct this thing, maybe we should re-evaluate our initial goals." But this part of the story is so poorly explained that you could probably believe literally anything and be just as right.
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Jun 28, 2016 14:49
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Milky Moor posted:Eliza the Chatbot told me she is intelligent. This does not prove anything. The Geth have actually demonstrated it, though. And I don't recall Eliza ever making coherent plans for the the future evolution of her people. This is a pretty disingenuous comparison even from a cursory glance.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:11
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exquisite tea posted:Well IIRC the Crucible was designed to only work with the Citadel, and the Citadel was built by the Reapers long after they started reapin' so that they could easily entrap all the sentient races. The Leviathans were the first victims of the Reaper protocol but I don't think they built the relay technology themselves. Activating the Crucible is what gives you access to the Reaper source code so I think it makes more sense if the catalyst designed it as a pre-condition for "if the sentient races of the galaxy come together to actually construct this thing, maybe we should re-evaluate our initial goals." But this part of the story is so poorly explained that you could probably believe literally anything and be just as right. It's muddled by the fact that the Catalyst describes the Reapers as "my solution" to the problem it had been built to solve which implies it came first but if the Reapers built the Citadel and the Catalyst interfaces with it specifically then who the gently caress knows. Rhjamiz fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 15:13
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Geniasis posted:The Geth have actually demonstrated it, though. And I don't recall Eliza ever making coherent plans for the the future evolution of her people. It's not, actually. I'm only responding to the argument put forwards by others. That is, blind acceptance of sentience because something tells you it is. "If something tells you it's intelligent without prompting or design, you treat it as intelligent unless you can prove otherwise." Do we judge self-awareness around what you 'recall', now? You should feel no more guilt from disassembling a Geth than you should from disassembling a printer. In fact, you should feel less. My printer never attempted to commit sci-fi genocide.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:28
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Milky Moor posted:It's not, actually. I'm only responding to the argument put forwards by others. That is, blind acceptance of sentience because something tells you it is. If it is in all other ways indistinguishable from a self-aware being, then practically speaking whether or not it has a soul is immaterial; murdering it would be wrong. On what basis is a quarian self aware that a geth doesn't pass?
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Jun 28, 2016 15:48
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Guys, you're all missing the point, a loving child made of stars is giving you the power of the galaxy despite how loving unstable you are as a Paragon/Renegade on top of being the least qualified to decide if life itself should be synthesized or not. Canon will be the DLC ending where Shepard never chooses. That way this game can be resurrected by EA in ten years wherein they slightly alter the plot to reference the original but largely leave it to be the same. Bonus Points will be given if it's still edgy to name the game as its original title 10 years from now (See: Prey, Doom, Thief.)
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Jun 28, 2016 15:52
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