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Reading back in the thread... holy poo poo he linked to an essay from the 1960s to give someone's hot take on mental illness this was only four years after the invention of the first antidepressant, I'm sure this guy was a master of his art in the day but he might as well be a caveman banging on another caveman's head with a rock by modern standards
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Jun 27, 2016 13:41
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we treated mental illness in the 1960s by giving serial killers mdma and lsd and setting them loose in the woods no loving joke
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Jun 27, 2016 13:42
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I want Jeb! vs Trump live on PPV at the convention. watching the joy of the world drain from jeb's eyes as the donald relentlessly dunked on him over and over was a big highlight of this whole circus
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Jun 27, 2016 13:44
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Dogstoyevsky posted:Hm, maybe politics involves a certain amount of compromise and coalition-building, and Trump's approach of delivering hilarious supa slams to everyone else in the GOP would make his hypothetical presidency extremely unproductive? nah the actual BEST CASE scenario of a trump presidency is he rubberstamps the current standard gop wishlist (still horrific, you'll notice) the worst case, of course, is a planet (or at least the northern hemisphere) covered in rapidly expanding mushroom clouds
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Jun 27, 2016 13:46
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Defiance posted:Rubio's position on immigration has always been less horrible than expected. For instance, in the Gang of Eight -- where he was the most conservative member negotiating -- he agreed that there should be a path to amnesty, but only if the immigrant had been in the country for 5 years. Rubio also caved on a provision that would allow the previously-deported to return and petition for citizenship. That's more because Rubio was a good soldier (read: sucker) for the GOP's post-Romney rebranding attempt than any actual character in the man.
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Jun 27, 2016 13:46
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Mirthless posted:Reading back in the thread... And what in it is outdated? What he said in that essay is just as relevant today, if not more so. It's a timeless piece, even. the worst thing is fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 13:48
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i can't wait for the post-trump
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Jun 27, 2016 13:48
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Typo posted:At the microeconomics level there is an assumption of perfect rationality and yes, those models are worthless. But most economic papers pertaining to public policy do not rely on said microeconomic models very much. that is silly, the slutsky equation is the closest thing to a scientific law that exists in social sciences
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Jun 27, 2016 13:49
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I'm fourty pages behin but ten years ago or so we changed our Dutch immigration tests to be more about culture instead of who William of Orange was. My favorite question on the exam is how many cookies you should take if someone opens the cookie jar for you (its one, were not the loving british with their wasteful endless supply of cookies) Also immigrants are made to watch video of a nudist beach. there's no question to answer, they just have to look at the floppy titties of some 50-year old Rotterdam grandma, as if that will make potential terrorists throw up their hands and move back to Syria telling Al-Baghdadi they just couldn't handle the soggy scrote of some dutch nudist
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Jun 27, 2016 13:54
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Tautologicus posted:And what in it is outdated? What he said in that essay is just as relevant today, if not more so. Every part of it is outdated because we understood close to nothing about the brain in 1960. Any take on mental health from the era should be thrown out automatically, virtually nothing from that era survives in science today. edit: Perspective, we did not know what MAOs really did, and were only vaguely aware they existed at all. We didn't know they affected mental health until something like 1956, and we discovered that by accident. "Mental illness is a myth" was popular theory at the time because there was no way to prove their brains functioned differently than anyone else's. Brain scans have proven otherwise. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 13:54
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team trumps master plan to win with millennials
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Jun 27, 2016 13:55
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Jun 27, 2016 13:57
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Mirthless posted:we treated mental illness in the 1960s by giving serial killers mdma and lsd and setting them loose in the woods Well....... Did it work?!?!?!
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Jun 27, 2016 13:57
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reignofevil posted:Well....... Did it work?!?!?! The practice ended when one of the serial killers they let out on a day pass raped and decapitated a homeless man right outside of the hospital they were treating him.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:00
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reignofevil posted:Well....... Did it work?!?!?! It worked on at least one individual, who went on to become a Republican primary candidate this year. Sadly, Ted Cruz had to drop out before he could clinch the nomination.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:01
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euphronius posted:I'm thinking Amateur Economist Amateur Economist was an insufferable douche but not a nazi, as far as I remember.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:11
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/747415955400196096 https://twitter.com/danmericaCNN/status/747417334365753344
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Jun 27, 2016 14:16
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/747418754255052802
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Jun 27, 2016 14:21
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Tautologicus posted:i don't know but i think there being female breadwinners is an aberration and a function of economic necessity rather than the peaking of some egalitarian social trend. i do not think that without pressure for women to go to school and work that they would still go to school and work in the same kind of way that they do right now. Well, the men should fix it by staying home then. having only one parent be economically productive is the actual aberration and makes the infantilized spouse of whichever gender profoundly unhappy overall - the most historically normal thing is for each family to be its own small business in which everyone works - including the children. The only parts of that which should change is that kids should go to school now instead of working. And total hours worked by each adult should continue to decline as tech improves.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:23
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Mirthless posted:Every part of it is outdated because we understood close to nothing about the brain in 1960. Any take on mental health from the era should be thrown out automatically, virtually nothing from that era survives in science today. quote:To recapitulate: In actual contemporary social usage, the finding of a mental illness is made by establishing a deviance in behavior from certain psychosocial, ethical, or legal norms. The judgment may be made, as in medicine, by the patient, the physician (psychiatrist), or others. Remedial action, finally, tends to be sought in a therapeutic -- or covertly medical -- framework, thus creating a situation in which psychosocial, ethical, and/or legal deviations are claimed to be correctible by (so-called) medical action. Since medical action is designed to correct only medical deviations, it seems logically absurd to expect that it will help solve problems whose very existence had been defined and established on nonmedical grounds. I think that these considerations may be fruitfully applied to the present use of tranquilizers and, more generally, to what might be expected of drugs of whatever type in regard to the amelioration or solution of problems in human living. And "Mental illness is a myth" was never a popular theory, even at the time. It was panned then too. You believe in the onward revolution of modernity to dispel all falsehoods but I say true revolution only comes from individuals, whom history can easily discard
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Jun 27, 2016 14:23
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Mirthless posted:The practice ended when one of the serial killers they let out on a day pass raped and decapitated a homeless man right outside of the hospital they were treating him. so no, then
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Jun 27, 2016 14:24
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Donald Trump...exaggerating about his finances? Surely that isn't possible. https://twitter.com/timkmak/status/747420489107181572 Slate Action fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 14:31
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Baloogan posted:shes evil enough for me, plus I don't mind the idea of everything going to poo poo under her watch and her getting blamed for it and I can sit back and smugly say "well i wanted trump" Yeah she is pretty much the Democrats Mitt Romney cruel and calculating robot person disguised by their religion or gender. All the people in this thread have taught me that Mitt was alright after all. Since the one percent actually run the country who wins president is irrelevant. The only exception is someone like Trump, Sanders, or Warren who actually want to take that control back.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:32
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Tautologicus posted:And "Mental illness is a myth" was never a popular theory, even at the time. It was panned then too. You believe in the onward revolution of modernity to dispel all falsehoods but I say true revolution only comes from individuals, whom history can easily discard Tautologicus posted:And "Mental illness is a myth" was never a popular theory, even at the time. It was panned then too. You believe in the onward revolution of modernity to dispel all falsehoods but I say true revolution only comes from individuals, whom history can easily discard quote:To recapitulate: In actual contemporary social usage, the finding of a mental illness is made by establishing a deviance in behavior from certain psychosocial, ethical, or legal norms. The judgment may be made, as in medicine, by the patient, the physician (psychiatrist), or others. In actual contemporary social usage, the finding of a mental illness is made by establishing a deviance in brain chemical balance, typically in the ability of the brain to produce or inhibit the production of certain enzymes (L-Monoamine oxidases). This ability is most often assumed by a medical professional based on social behavior that is undesired, but can be confirmed with diagnostic tools if one so desires. In 1960, Szasz probably didn't know your ability to feel joy was tied to serotonin production or the will to live was based on dopamine levels in the brain, because this science didn't exist yet. This is why MDMA, LSD, Shrooms, etc so much use in psychotherapy in the 60s and 70s, people in the profession were still trying to treat these diseases as emotional and mental hang ups that people could work through and become functioning people. Szasz is arguing that these people aren't abnormal, just damaged. This is the kind of take that would have made sense to somebody who earned his degree in a time when we still thought it was a good idea to treat depression by cutting out a large portion of someone's brain. quote:Since medical action is designed to correct only medical deviations, it seems logically absurd to expect that it will help solve problems whose very existence had been defined and established on nonmedical grounds. I think that these considerations may be fruitfully applied to the present use of tranquilizers and, more generally, to what might be expected of drugs of whatever type in regard to the amelioration or solution of problems in human living. The problem Szasz has here is that he doesn't understand why these drugs worked. Early antidepressants were non-reversible MAOIs and very harsh tricyclic antidepressants that more or less had the effect of killing one's ability to feel anything. One might have assumed these were just escape drugs - a way to feel better by simply being too dulled to feel anything at all - if one didn't understand that they directly targeted the production of the enzymes that enable us to feel any emotions at all. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 14:34
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Trump better hope that the UK loving turns it around and has like 5% growth by November. Unless he means that he was right about the people choosing Brexit in which case who cares.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:41
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That's exactly what he means
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Jun 27, 2016 14:42
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Mirthless posted:The problem Szasz has here is that he doesn't understand why these drugs worked. Early antidepressants were non-reversible MAOIs and very harsh tricyclic antidepressants that more or less had the effect of killing one's ability to feel anything. One might have assumed these were just escape drugs - a way to feel better by simply being too dulled to feel anything at all - if one didn't understand that they directly targeted the production of the enzymes that enable us to feel any emotions at all. Trazodone is the only way I can sleep past 2am 
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Jun 27, 2016 14:43
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Iron Crowned posted:Trazodone is the only way I can sleep past 2am I have to take ambien 7-14 days /mo on average thanks to my totally made up bipolar mania flooding my brain with imaginary dopamine nonstop when I'm trying to sleep
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Jun 27, 2016 14:45
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/747424042181791744
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Jun 27, 2016 14:46
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Mirthless posted:In actual contemporary social usage, the finding of a mental illness is made by establishing a deviance in brain chemical imbalance, typically in the ability of the brain to produce or inhibit the production of certain enzymes (L-Monoamine oxidases). This ability is most often assumed by a medical professional based on social behavior that is undesired, but can be confirmed with diagnostic tools if one so desires. So how come every class of drug that treats depression for example treats a different chemical than the last class. Someone coming into a psychiatrist's office isn't complaining of health problems, they are complaining of adjustment issues, adjustment to themselves and society. They are diagnosed not with laboratory tests but via question and answer. Then they are given drugs. This is exactly what Szasz says in that essay. They have not found a certain biological basis for any of these "illnesses", and IF THEY DID, the illnesses would ought to be treated through a psychiatrist, but through a neurologist, such as they do for diseases like Parkinson's. What they see in the brain are the effects of certain mental and societal maladaptations and then they treat those effects via drugs, but they surely haven't found the biological causes of them. Because what if biology is a two way street? It very much is. The environment affects one's biology just as much as the environment affects one's sense of self and belonging and so on. If one feels a certain way, of course there would be a reflection within one's biology. This does not therefore mean that the biology was obviously the starting point for that feeling. If ones environment is bad, or one has a bad attitude about their environment, one's serotonin and dopamine levels may be low. So it's not some obvious thing from which all modern science has moved on from. They moved around Szasz, they ignored him. Mirthless posted:The problem Szasz has here is that he doesn't understand why these drugs worked.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:46
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just take some melatonin you idiots and also two bottles of wine
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Jun 27, 2016 14:46
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Mirthless posted:I have to take ambien 7-14 days /mo on average thanks to my totally made up bipolar mania flooding my brain with imaginary dopamine nonstop when I'm trying to sleep because you have a schedule and a lifestyle that is at odds with your actual constitution, and you're fighting that conflict with drugs.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:48
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Keep in mind: CNN is paying his former campaign manager $500,000
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Jun 27, 2016 14:49
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Oiled and Ready posted:I'm the "GOP moderate" who actually plans on running on the platform of "you can't do that terrible thing! No, really, I'd like to do it as much as you, but you cannot. It is too arduous and expensive. You gotta set realistic goals when it comes to being an rear end in a top hat. Start small, work your way up, genocide isn't for amateurs!" v interesting. have you permatoxxed for trump yet?
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Jun 27, 2016 14:49
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#USxit!
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Jun 27, 2016 14:49
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American economic independence from... who?
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Jun 27, 2016 14:52
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Thump! posted:American economic independence from... who? Everyone you see on the labels of everything you buy
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Jun 27, 2016 14:53
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Thump! posted:American economic independence from... who? From prosperity if the Brexit is any indication.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:53
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Jun 27, 2016 14:55
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edit: not to keep an argument going but I spent too much time on this post to waste it at the end of the page
Mirthless fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 15:05
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