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That Atlantic article is centrist "truth-is-in-middle" horseshit. Equating Trump/Cruz and Sanders is laughable. AlsoSedge and Bee posted:Hey, do you know what isn't mentioned in the piece at all? Racism! The reason that Trump has destroyed the Republicans is that the racism inherent in the american electorate was never dealt with or acknowledged since the Civil Rights Act was signed. Other people have touched on how idiotic equating Sanders with Trump is, but if you're going to look at the Republicans right now and tell me that that problem is not enough respect for the establishment (that has been stoking these fires and endangering people for 60 years) you can go gently caress yourself. This.
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Jun 28, 2016 01:58
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You could argue that they represent different forms of racism that are hamstringing society. Trump is obviously the overt politics of hate, but the pure focus on fiscal issues like politicians like Sanders get into on the left is a more low-key 'I'm colorblind' style racism that needs to be addressed too. Obviously one is far worse, but we can't pretend the other isn't a form of racism.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:04
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Axetrain posted:That Atlantic article is centrist "truth-is-in-middle" horseshit. Equating Trump/Cruz and Sanders is laughable. This. When he compared the cross-over of Bernie Sanders from Independant to Democrat to Trump's political Frogger, I closed the tab.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:14
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I disagree, though I am obviously in the minority here. The majority of the article is spent talking about how the GOP has shot itself in the foot and how the electorate's, especially the GOP electorate's, confidence in US institutions has eroded since the 70's. All of which has been discussed and accepted in USPOL ad nauseum since I first started paying attention pre-2008. Your objections to equating Sanders to Trump, Cruz are also overblown. First off, Sanders has been compared to Trump in many different forums for various reasons, no one is making the claim that they are the same. The article even discusses how the left in America isn't even close to where the right has gone in terms of dysfunction and openly embracing anti-establishment politics, but it acknowledges that the same critical weaknesses are present that crippled the GOP leadership. At the very least, the article is worthy of a discussion and shouldn't be so casually dismissed, because it's not without basis in reality and precedent. It was only two years ago the Eric Cantor was tossed by a Tea Party candidate. Boon fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 02:16
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Bring back earmarks and smoke filled rooms, mild corruption is better than paralysis.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:20
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If we're reposting stuff that got ignored I'm doing this one again. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/choosing-a-school-for-my-daughter-in-a-segregated-city.html?smid=tw-nytmag&smtyp=cur&_r=0 We haven't fought over schools in a while anyway.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:24
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I think he has a lot of facts right but drawing the conclusion that things are hosed because "the people abandoned the political class" is, in turn, super hosed
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Jun 28, 2016 02:24
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Boon posted:I disagree, though I am obviously in the minority here. The majority of the article is spent talking about how the GOP has shot itself in the foot and how the electorate, especially the GOP electorate, has eroded confidence in US institutions. All of which has been discussed in USPOL ad nauseum in USPOL since I first started paying attention pre-2008. I agree that the article has a good analysis of the breakdown of the historical checks on sustained gridlock, but he really dug his own grave with the blatant appeals to the middle. Sobbing about the failure of the Grand Bargain is just absurd, as is the complete disregard of cultivated xenophobia, and that should call the motive of the article into question for any attentive reader. It's hyper-privileged bullshit that appeals directly to the power of the political class.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:26
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emdash posted:I think he has a lot of facts right but drawing the conclusion that things are hosed because "the people abandoned the political class" is, in turn, super hosed BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I agree that the article has a good analysis of the breakdown of the historical checks on sustained gridlock, but he really dug his own grave with the blatant appeals to the middle. Sobbing about the failure of the Grand Bargain is just absurd, as is the complete disregard of cultivated xenophobia, and that should call the motive of the article into question for any attentive reader. It's hyper-privileged bullshit that appeals directly to the power of the political class. I did cringe reading the part about the grand bargain, but the point wasn't any less valid despite the circumstances of the deal itself. The GOP is so hosed because their leadership is literally incapable of leading their elected peers, much less the electorate - it really has nothing to do with whether the grand bargain was good or bad, it's illustrative of the breakdown itself. I whole-heartedly agree that the erosion of confidence in US government institutions, including political ones, are damaging to our government. By definition, those institutions are the establishment and the political class or political elite, or whatever you want to call it. Consider this here: http://www.people-press.org/2014/11/13/public-trust-in-government/ Boon fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 02:29
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CommieGIR posted:Federal Judge in Mississippi has ruled clerks cannot deny marriage licenses based on personal religion Can't wait for this to work its way up to the SCOTUS. 
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Jun 28, 2016 02:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:Can't wait for this to work its way up to the SCOTUS. And to have Thomas dissent.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:41
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Boon posted:I disagree, though I am obviously in the minority here. The majority of the article is spent talking about how the GOP has shot itself in the foot and how the electorate's, especially the GOP electorate's, confidence in US institutions has eroded since the 70's. All of which has been discussed and accepted in USPOL ad nauseum since I first started paying attention pre-2008. The problem is that he makes broad strokes as to what's wrong with the system, and then uses only Republicans as examples and pretends it's typical. His whole premise is wrong. It's not a problem with the system. It's a problem with the Republican party specifically. For example, he says the primary system incentivized radicals. Where? When? He's completely wrong about that. The Republican party produced a lunatic this particular cycle, but one point does not make a trend. He's flat out wrong about many of his other points, again by painting them as general failures of the system when they were in fact specific failures of the Republican party. Being deceptive about the source of the problems makes fixing them more difficult to solve. I get that an article that overtly bashes the Republicans comes off as partisan and dishonest. When it's the truth, journalists need to point fingers and name names. They're supposed to be the ones who will speak truth to power rather than cowering and trying not to offend anyone.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:42
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VW will pay $14.7B to settle with EPA and CARB over emissions cheating, including fixing or buying back cars along with fines.quote:the deal requires Volkswagen to pay $2.7 billion in fines and devotes another $2 billion on clean-emissions technology, sources tell the Associated Press, Bloomberg News and New York Times.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:45
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Evil Fluffy posted:Can't wait for this to work its way up to the SCOTUS. It'll never make it to SCOTUS, not unless the Federal Circuit screws up royally. In which event they'll put out a per curiam decision saying "nope try again."
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Jun 28, 2016 02:50
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Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs."
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Jun 28, 2016 02:59
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Boon posted:I did cringe reading the part about the grand bargain, but the point wasn't any less valid despite the circumstances of the deal itself. The GOP is so hosed because their leadership is literally incapable of leading their elected peers, much less the electorate - it really has nothing to do with whether the grand bargain was good or bad, it's illustrative of the breakdown itself. Stuff like "the GOP being unable to lead" only makes them look hosed to liberal echo chambers where that is self-evidently a bad thing. If people actually gave a poo poo they wouldn't be tied in the generic congressional ballot right now.
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Jun 28, 2016 02:59
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs." *insert Weimar comparison here*
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Jun 28, 2016 03:02
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs." I wonder what it's like to be Trump right now. I imagine this news would make even him sit in a dark room and stare at a mirror for about an hour.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:02
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SSNeoman posted:I wonder what it's like to be Trump right now. I imagine this news would make even him sit in a dark room and stare at a mirror for about an hour. I'm pretty sure sitting and staring at a mirror is already a large component of his daily routine.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:03
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs." A friend of mine from high school who I let crash on my couch a while back ended up trying to fire bomb the RNC in 08 and fell into an FBI honeypot, I'm really wondering if he's still into all that black bloc poo poo and if they're planning to do something Real Dumb for the convention
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Jun 28, 2016 03:06
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SSNeoman posted:I wonder what it's like to be Trump right now. I imagine this news would make even him sit in a dark room and stare at a mirror for about an hour. I'm pretty sure he'd just be happy to have such "passionate" supporters.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:10
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Deteriorata posted:I get that an article that overtly bashes the Republicans comes off as partisan and dishonest. When it's the truth, journalists need to point fingers and name names. They're supposed to be the ones who will speak truth to power rather than cowering and trying not to offend anyone. The quest for neutrality in journalism goes to ridiculous extremes quite often. The fact that journalists are as scared as they are to call out Republican idiocy is what lead us to the point we're at now; where things like the Muslim ban and wall are given even an iota of legitimacy when those policy positions should've been laughed out of the discussion nine months ago. What exactly is the truth in the middle, when the middle is somewhere between banning all Muslims and not-so-subtly accusing Obama of literally masterminding Orlando. SSNeoman posted:I wonder what it's like to be Trump right now. I imagine this news would make even him sit in a dark room and stare at a mirror for about an hour. Trump's life is now season five of Breaking Bad... or season four of Orange is the New Black. Take your pick. "Whoops! I'm a Nazi now!"
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Jun 28, 2016 03:11
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs." https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/746300245693206528
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Jun 28, 2016 03:11
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Bee tee dubs: That neo-Nazi group that "won" the Battle of Sacramento will be attending the RNC to "protect" Donald Trump supporters from "leftist thugs." This got posted in the right wing media thread recently, but it should be noted that Matt Heimbach (the leader) has had a history of showing up in the news for being a racist crazy person. He was the one backing up Scott Terry in the infamous "Black people should be thankful for slavery" rant during the 2013 CPAC panel about how the party can attract black voters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EGj5brWJp4 And he was caught on video assaulting a black woman at a Trump rally recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-GEdJjVuIs He is a legit violent sociopath and should be behind bars
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Jun 28, 2016 03:31
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This is shaping up to be one violent year. New US civil war, anyone?
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Jun 28, 2016 03:42
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The DNC platform committee voted 8 to 5 to include language explicitly condemning BDS and affirming support for Israel and Zionism, in opposition to Sanders delegates https://theintercept.com/2016/06/27/dnc-platform-leaves-door-open-for-no-fly-zone-in-syria-refuses-to-call-for-end-to-israeli-occupation/
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Jun 28, 2016 03:47
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That article's central thesis seems to be that passing legislation is a good thing in a vacuum and since government is completely deadlocked our politics are now insane. The real question is if compromise legislation between parties as far apart as the current iteration of D/R is even desirable. The grand bargain was poo poo and would have led to deep resentment on both sides, though I doubt it would have changed anything in how republicans are behaving now. American politics takes a long time to shift and the parties are basically locked in a messaging war for 10-15 years until demographics catches up to the overrepresentation of rural areas in government . What the dems need to focus on now is building the equivalent of the republican baked-in "job creator" advantage (or reversing it). Decades of republican messaging are bearing fruit now even when their party is in disarray. GOP idiocy is out in full force for everyone to see and the democrats need to hammer them on it so the next generation of voters don't forget.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:48
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SSNeoman posted:I wonder what it's like to be Trump right now. I imagine this news would make even him sit in a dark room and stare at a mirror for about an hour. I'm pretty sure that he's far beyond the questioning himself phase being a raging clinical narcissist. Any attention from adoring fans is good for him.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:52
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icantfindaname posted:The DNC platform committee voted 8 to 5 to include language explicitly condemning BDS and affirming support for Israel and Zionism, in opposition to Sanders delegates As someone planning to vote 3rd party in November and who would be particularly upset were your description accurate, you appear to have fundamentally mischaracterized the article. Not very conducive for advancing these causes...
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Jun 28, 2016 03:53
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Cugel the Clever posted:As someone planning to vote 3rd party in November and who would be particularly upset were your description accurate, you appear to have fundamentally mischaracterized the article. Not very conducive for advancing these causes... quote:Sanders’s team also introduced an amendment to the draft platform’s text on Israel and Palestine. The amendment affirmed U.S. support for Israel and the two-state solution, but also asked for the deletion of language condemning the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions campaign and affirming an “undivided” Jerusalem. My mistake. The platform already contains language explicitly condemning BDS, Sanders amendment was to remove it and got voted down. That's not much better though IMO
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Jun 28, 2016 03:58
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Ahahahahahhahahah http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/dobson-trump-just-recently-accepted-christ DON'T WORRY REPUBLICANS! Trump just found Christ! It's truly a miracle. quote:he's a baby Christian
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Jun 28, 2016 03:58
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icantfindaname posted:My mistake. The platform already contains language explicitly condemning BDS, Sanders amendment was to remove it and got voted down. That's not much better though IMO New Jersey has followed Andrew Cuomo's lead, today. EDIT: Also, the anti-BDS provision is a first for the platform and includes an explicit commitment to back Israel at the UN. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 04:01
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icantfindaname posted:My mistake. The platform already contains language explicitly condemning BDS, Sanders amendment was to remove it and got voted down. That's not much better though IMO
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Jun 28, 2016 04:02
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Cugel the Clever posted:Have you got a link to the explicit condemnation? I know DWS and Co. engaged in blatant vote fuckery in 2012 on the status of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, but I've never heard of BDS getting into the platform. No, just that sentence. It's probably buried somewhere in the 2012 platform but I fully expect them to keep it in the 2016 one ahahahaha christ. gently caress liberals
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Jun 28, 2016 04:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:If someone is too dangerous to fly or own guns, based on secret criteria, shouldn't the police be able to search their house at any time without a warrant? The 4th Amendment isn't unlimited after all, it's subject to exceptions, so that should be OK, yes? Just common sense. No, this slippery slope doesn't work at all. For example: banning convicted violent criminals from buying a gun is constitutional, permanently revoking their fourth amendment rights and allowing the police to search their home without a warrant is not. I know this is your favorite go-to and I know you hate critical thinking when it comes to guns but think it through for just one second: if you actually believe that any proposed restriction on the 2nd amendment automatically justifies a restriction on the 4th amendment in similar circumstances then you're claiming either (a) previously convicted violent felons permanently lose all constitutional rights for life, or (b) when a guy gets out of jail for beating his wife we should sell him a gun on the way home
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Jun 28, 2016 04:14
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Aerox posted:Ahahahahahhahahah Seen elsewhere: quote:Ah, so the pivot we were all waiting for wasn't to capture moderate Republicans, but the Ted Cruz voter base
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Jun 28, 2016 04:14
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icantfindaname posted:The DNC platform committee voted 8 to 5 to include language explicitly condemning BDS and affirming support for Israel and Zionism, in opposition to Sanders delegates Same thing happened in 2012(?) where they held a voice vote several times because the delegates present clearly weren't having any of that, and then just declared that it passed by voice vote and quickly moved on. As nice as it is when good things get put into the Democratic Platform, it's not really the most useful way to judge how the party, in general, or the President, in particular, are going to act in the future. Pretty sure Israel knob slobbering has been in the Democratic Platform for a while, including poo poo like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital and decrying things like BDS. It's all just a weird mix of lobbyist kowtowing and actual policy previewing. Aerox posted:Ahahahahahhahahah I just can't. This loving election. Now we're making up conversion stories for the god brigade that clearly are nothing more than a self delusion to make them feel ok about voting for someone so clearly heretical in their view.
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Jun 28, 2016 04:16
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Gyges posted:This loving election. Exactly. They already convinced themselves that Cruz-style sleazy zealotry was the height of morality and now are trying their best to make Trump into that so they feel better voting for someone who embodies what they claim to hate just because he says so. It's so sad this is working on anyone. I can't wait until November and hope that when Trump crashes and burns, he takes all the scum he's collected as his base with him.
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Jun 28, 2016 04:24
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VitalSigns posted:No, this slippery slope doesn't work at all. Your example is not relevant, because we're not talking about automatic carryover for all cases. The question at hand is whether the courts would consider "is a suspected terrorist" as likely to fit a reasonableness requirement for the 4th amendment given that it is sufficient to suspend the 2nd. I don't see that as even slightly unlikely; I see it as almost certain.
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Jun 28, 2016 04:30
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Your example is not relevant, because we're not talking about automatic carryover for all cases. The question at hand is whether the courts would consider "is a suspected terrorist" as likely to fit a reasonableness requirement for the 4th amendment given that it is sufficient to suspend the 2nd. I don't see that as even slightly unlikely; I see it as almost certain. No it isn't, the Supreme Court already ruled in Hamdi v Rumsfeld that "the president thinks you're a terrorist" doesn't negate your fifth amendment rights, a law to warrantless search anyone would be much more likely to be decided that way. Second amendment jurisprudence is significantly different from fourth amendment jurisprudence there is no chance that a court will rule anyone who can't buy a gun also doesn't have fourth amendment rights, the two have nothing to do with each other and no gun law has ever been cited as support for restricting the right to protection from searches. I still think the no-fly list as it's currently implemented is unconstitutional because there's no process to appeal the executive's determination that you belong on a secret list of administrative restrictions. However you probably could add that appeals process and make it constitutional to restrict someone from buying a gun or flying in an airplane. There's zero chance that you could add any kind of appeals process that would make it constitutional for the government to have a blank check to search your house for life.
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Jun 28, 2016 04:58
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