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NeurosisHead posted:I really liked VC until this post Don't give up hope on VC, yet! We might be getting this guy as DLC content!  
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Jun 27, 2016 14:49
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VC long campaign down at turn 171. I'd say if the vamps have one big weakness it's how hard it is for them to go out raiding abroad. You can tip toe your way through enemy territory in raiding stance but you'll have to retreat back to friendly territory to replenish (and good luck finding that in the Badlands). I basically had to cross my fingers and hope the Greenskins dealt with the Dwarfs for me (they did), but once that ball got rolling I had no effective means of keeping the Greenskins in check. They were the biggest end-game threat, but I was lucky and Karak Kadrin presented a more appealing target long enough for me to finish pushing west. All I had to do was make peace with Skaeling and Varg once for us to be best friends forever. They ignored me completely and allowed me the leisure of conquering all the old imperial provinces without having to start a single war. Overall I liked VC a lot more than I thought I would initially.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:50
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terrorist ambulance posted:In a new vh dwarf campaign I killed grimgors army (with a full stack) 3 times in 3 separate close and hard fought battles. He then respawned with a full stack and a waagh from their last two remaining regions ( I'd taken black crag, their last regions were like west of barak varr on the coast) and sacked karaz a karak while I was up north getting gunbad. Then confederated with the bloody spearz, who'd wiped out the northern dwarfs, and were back up to like 10 regions. loving very hard / impossible strategic layer is some bullshit sometimes The Dwarf campaign is one long tango with Grimgor on VH (unless you manage to rush Black Crag before he gets the confederating train going), it is infuriating, but also awesome to have a regular foil in a Total War game.
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Jun 27, 2016 14:54
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Kitchner posted:Yeah basically Mannfred is who we need to blame for Age of Sigmar. NeurosisHead posted:I really liked VC until this post
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Jun 27, 2016 14:56
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It's too bad trade goods don't offer other benefits besides maybe 100g/turn for having the building. There's a lot of ways they could go with it, especially with the lower value goods that are less appealing to spend time and money building. I know dwarf beer gives a nice public order boost in that province which is great because dwarves also seem to value a keg of beer almost as much as a barrel full of diamonds. Iron: Reduce siege engine upkeep based on total production. Animal producing buildings: In addition to their existing benefits, they also reduce upkeep for vc and greeskin beast units. Stone: Reduce cost of settlement construction, colonization , and walls. Timber: Reduce cost of support and economic buildings. Pottery: Increases growth by a small amount faction wide based on the amount produced. Salt: Decreases attrition for human, dwarf, and orc factions based on the ratio between army upkeep cost and total salt production/imports. Wine: Vampire counts can ply their allies with wine, allowing a given amount of bribe/payment to have a bigger diplomatic benefit based on total wine production/imports. Beer: Victorious human or dwarf armies get a Ld bonus for 3 rounds based on total beer production/imports and army upkeep. Dyes: Empire weaving houses produce bonus gold and have discounted upgrade costs based on total dye production/imports.
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Jun 27, 2016 15:56
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Some trade goods do offer benefits. For example lumber unlocks a building that boosts forest type unit recruitment level for Vampires.
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Jun 27, 2016 16:04
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Gejnor posted:Soooo another another mod made, thanks to Mazz for helping me figure this one out: This is really good, dude. Time is a greater enemy in this game than money, IMO.
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Jun 27, 2016 16:08
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Gejnor posted:Soooo another another mod made, thanks to Mazz for helping me figure this one out: I might have to download this. Has the AI ever even had recruitment time penalties from global?
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Jun 27, 2016 16:28
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Deified Data posted:I might have to download this. Has the AI ever even had recruitment time penalties from global? Im pretty sure ive seen Grimgor sitting around for ages at one point using the global recruitment thing in hostile territory. toasterwarrior posted:This is really good, dude. Time is a greater enemy in this game than money, IMO.  Also, yes.. yeeees let me bask in your gratitudeeeee...! Let me get weird about this..! Gejnor fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 16:54
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Everytime I launch the game I find and install new mods to play with. Must.... make game.... PERFECT
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Jun 27, 2016 18:04
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Everytime I launch the game I find and install new mods to play with. Must.... make game.... PERFECT Me too. I have passive enemy agents and tier 4 settlements but I'll definitely look for the global recruitment mod one too. I'm a little surprised none of the factions or Lords get a bonus to global recruitment either regarding time or cost.
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Jun 27, 2016 18:09
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Good Gork (or Mork), the Greenskins campaign on Legendary is tougher than any other challenge I've had so far (haven't tried Chaos yet). Dwarven infantry outclasses them in every way and public obedience is the biggest pain in the rear end. I guess I'll have to start spamming WAAAGH armies to do the heavy lifting with some constant sacking of a corner settlement with an all-goblin army.
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Jun 27, 2016 18:10
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Gejnor posted:Im pretty sure ive seen Grimgor sitting around for ages at one point using the global recruitment thing in hostile territory. Man I thought 120 was impressive, drat. This game. Does the mod apply to both AI and the player?
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Jun 27, 2016 18:11
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rockopete posted:Man I thought 120 was impressive, drat. This game. Its easy when you have no life. Also the game does geniunely own for me and i just ping pong from one campaign to the next, doing one until i grow bored then i start playing another race, with different mods and voila im back to enjoying myself! rockopete posted:Does the mod apply to both AI and the player? It should, i mean it was a global (heh) multiplier that all the players that took use of the global recruitment had to confine itself to so changing it changes it for everyone, even the AI. But of course i cannot be fully certain. A thought occured to me, if this is done right it means WAAGH armies will now recruit back their armies waaay faster after losses since i assume they never take advantage of local recruitment, seeing as they are basically a horde army that just tags along with you.. unless they have the same rules as a Chaos Horde, and use the same recruitment tools as they do.. I dont think so though, but i could be wrong. Gejnor fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 19:42
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So have you determined whether non-integer global multipliers work yet?
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Jun 27, 2016 19:44
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Fangz posted:So have you determined whether non-integer global multipliers work yet? Thanks for reminding me, i quickly checked if 1,5 or 1.5 does anything just now and sadly, it seems to either round upwards to 2 or it simply goes WELP and just reverts back to Default values. Sorry bud, if it had worked id definately would have posted an alternate version of the mod for you. 
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Jun 27, 2016 19:53
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Global recruitment is fine. You shouldn't be able to raise a top tier army quickly in the middle of enemy territory. Plan your campaigns accordingly ... or stop losing battles
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Jun 27, 2016 20:03
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If you bug CA about it enough maybe they'll patch the game to do what it really should, which is have a separate table for global recruitment times/costs on a per-unit basis. Or just two extra columns in the main_units table. I think it'll happen even without bugging them though, honestly. I feel like some of the factions they're likely to include at some point are going to have global recruitment as an important feature so fixing the system up at that point or in advance of that point would only make sense. Their current implementation feels like a shortcut to getting a feature added and out the door rather than where they'd realistically want it forever. By having separate time/costs per unit you can also have tech/buildings/skills modify those costs/times per unit which is the main thing I think they'll end up wanting for factions that rely more heavily on it in the future.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:04
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Ammanas posted:Global recruitment is fine. You shouldn't be able to raise a top tier army quickly in the middle of enemy territory. Plan your campaigns accordingly ... or stop losing battles Top tier units still take three turns in hostile territory, so i will say that it is still risky as gently caress to use if you do not plan properly. 6 turns however is a joke and you know it. Like, im not arguing against you here really, i too was okay with the 2-3 turn units (though its 2-4-6 if im not mistaken) but mostly it just means you don't use the tool given to you at all so why is it even there? Hopefully we will see a refinement of the system, as Decus mentioned, maybe something along the lines of a proximity based thing where it takes longer the farther away you are? Or, yeah, some improvements to tech, hero skills and maybe even items that leads to shortening down the turn costs. Or both.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:17
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My main problem with Global Recruitment at present is that it's generally quite simple to just use a lord to shuttle units from back home, and too often that could be actually faster for the high tier units. So yeah, I'd appreciate it best if it were balanced more closely so that global recruitment could be more common.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:23
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Pretty sure global recruitment is just there so if you're deep in pillaged territory that you can't claim for yourself and need to replenish your forces because you aren't managing your units well, it gives you an out other than walking all the way home. Every other game they've made you need to march units from the recruitment province and let me just say, I've had games where it's taken me 15 or more turns to get units from my core recruitment provinces to a front so the 6 turns isn't that punishing.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:27
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Well if the AI used global recruitment to field more competitive forces I'd be all for it.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:29
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Yukitsu posted:Pretty sure global recruitment is just there so if you're deep in pillaged territory that you can't claim for yourself and need to replenish your forces because you aren't managing your units well, it gives you an out other than walking all the way home. Every other game they've made you need to march units from the recruitment province and let me just say, I've had games where it's taken me 15 or more turns to get units from my core recruitment provinces to a front so the 6 turns isn't that punishing. Okay im drawing a blank here, 15 turns? Where was this front? The other side of Norsca? Ammanas posted:Well if the AI used global recruitment to field more competitive forces I'd be all for it. I mean it should, especially the Orcs considering their raiding stance is the same as their recruiting stance.. i think im gonna have to do some tests or something to see what it does. Also i am starting to consider making an alternate mod (won't remove what ive already added) where i'll restrict global recruitment somewhat, say the default 3 cap and nothing else? If i could maybe just 2 forever? I'd have to disable several techs and probably hero skills, i remember some of them did recruitment caps, i think.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:35
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Gejnor posted:Also i am starting to consider making an alternate mod (won't remove what ive already added) where i'll restrict global recruitment somewhat, say the default 3 cap and nothing else? If i could maybe just 2 forever? I'd have to disable several techs and probably hero skills, i remember some of them did recruitment caps, i think. I can't test it myself until later today when I'm at my computer, but after my last post I started thinking that it might already be possible to alter global recruit times on a per unit basis. I'd have to check attila effects and I guess some warhammer effects but now I'm thinking there probably already is one that will work on global recruitment times/costs and you could just append the unit_id at the end to make it for a specific unit.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:42
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Gejnor posted:Okay im drawing a blank here, 15 turns? Where was this front? The other side of Norsca? I assume he means other total war games. In which case, yeah, trying to march troops to the front line as Shimazu in Shogun 2 was loving AWFUL. It's overall less bad in this game because most factions are relatively central with respect to their objectives.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:43
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Decus posted:I can't test it myself until later today when I'm at my computer, but after my last post I started thinking that it might already be possible to alter global recruit times on a per unit basis. I'd have to check attila effects and I guess some warhammer effects but now I'm thinking there probably already is one that will work on global recruitment times/costs and you could just append the unit_id at the end to make it for a specific unit. Well from what ive seen you can only alter the local recruitment times, and the campaign_variables table holds the multiplier for global recruitment times, its set to default to 2, or 2x whatever the local recruitment cost time is. But yeah i wish i could do it like that, id deffo have it more like 2-3-4 rather than 2-4-6, a bit more reasonable imo. Do check on it though, i may be entirely wrong about it after all!
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Jun 27, 2016 20:46
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Gejnor posted:Okay im drawing a blank here, 15 turns? Where was this front? The other side of Norsca? Previous games. From the blacksmith in southern Japan to fuel my drive north. Or my Spanish iron mines to the far east of the map. Or getting Grenadiers to the Americas. Or sending falconets to help me conquer the Aztecs. And etc. Unless your advance is slow as molasses, it's rarely possible for me to fully upgrade my production centers so that they're within a turn or two's march to the front lines and by the time I have a province set up to recruit my best units, it'll have often been more like 20 turns of dedicated building. It's easier for me to just keep a constant stream of production from my recruitment province and have them slog increasingly long distances across the map but it's also not rare for my late game to consist of mostly trash tier troops with no veterancy and no blacksmith upgrades. Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 20:46
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Yukitsu posted:Previous games. From the blacksmith in southern Japan to fuel my drive north. Or my Spanish iron mines to the far east of the map. Or getting Grenadiers to the Americas. Or sending falconets to help me conquer the Aztecs. And etc. I feel your pain
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Jun 27, 2016 20:48
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Fangz posted:I assume he means other total war games. In which case, yeah, trying to march troops to the front line as Shimazu in Shogun 2 was loving AWFUL. It's overall less bad in this game because most factions are relatively central with respect to their objectives.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:56
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 Had a check through the tech tree tables right now and saw this: tech_grn_main_trolololol which concerns the upgrades of trolls 
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Jun 27, 2016 21:03
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Gejnor posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYx5mphHAiw
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Jun 27, 2016 21:31
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Found some well-done mods that fluff out Slayers a bit more: "All New Slayers" Long Drong's Slayer Pirates I haven't had a chance to try it yet but the All New Slayers is exactly how I hope Slayers get officially changed in the future. How foes CA go about implementing ideas that are similar to existing mods? Has that ever come up before?
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Jun 27, 2016 21:44
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Grenade launcher outriders are really disappointing.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:45
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I am having just the oddest game of Vampire Counts. I am being the heroes of civilization, allied to all surviving dwarfs and most of the humans (Estalia is a dick, and there's one Bretonnian faction I'm helping to fight). Kemmler is in the far north with my oldest allies, Kislev, sallying forth to fight off the Varg, Skaeling and Warriors of Chaos hordes from my safe haven in Hochland. Kislev is fighting valiantly, and with Kemmler able to run out and smack down any enemies that slip through before they can savage Kislev's economy we are holding strong. In the south, I have two stacks - headed by Mannfred himself - desperately racing to help my good friends the Dwarfs against the Greenskin beasts that have nearly driven them out of their holds. While the brave dwarfs control some of the other mountain ranges in the Empire, I will do everything in my power to keep them from losing their homeland. Even in the West, I help my allies. Bretonnia is powerful, but is beset from behind by traitors. While they keep the northern lands safe and patrol against uprising and raiders, I have an expedition guarding their lands. While Bordeleux has made headway, I hope to stop them at Moussilon before the heartland of Bretonnia falls. Everywhere civilization and light faces chaos, destruction and death, the Vampire Counts are there to defend it. The shambling hordes of skeletons, the decaying beasts of sky and land, the very ghosts themselves will defend this world to their second dying breath!
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Jun 27, 2016 22:02
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terrorist ambulance posted:Grenade launcher outriders are really disappointing. there is a serious lack of basic infantry getting tossed around and dying in hails of shrapnel SAD.
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Jun 27, 2016 22:12
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Vampire counts are my favorite punching bags because their local terrain works so hilariously against them unless they took a lot of flyers . As Dwarves/Empire you can spam ranged and artillery and force the bulk of their army to start crumbling before they even reach your lines .
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Jun 27, 2016 23:11
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Kaza42 posted:I am having just the oddest game of Vampire Counts. I am being the heroes of civilization, allied to all surviving dwarfs and most of the humans (Estalia is a dick, and there's one Bretonnian faction I'm helping to fight). Kemmler is in the far north with my oldest allies, Kislev, sallying forth to fight off the Varg, Skaeling and Warriors of Chaos hordes from my safe haven in Hochland. Kislev is fighting valiantly, and with Kemmler able to run out and smack down any enemies that slip through before they can savage Kislev's economy we are holding strong. In the south, I have two stacks - headed by Mannfred himself - desperately racing to help my good friends the Dwarfs against the Greenskin beasts that have nearly driven them out of their holds. While the brave dwarfs control some of the other mountain ranges in the Empire, I will do everything in my power to keep them from losing their homeland. Even in the West, I help my allies. Bretonnia is powerful, but is beset from behind by traitors. While they keep the northern lands safe and patrol against uprising and raiders, I have an expedition guarding their lands. While Bordeleux has made headway, I hope to stop them at Moussilon before the heartland of Bretonnia falls. This is the exact opposite of my VC campaign. I stayed out of as many wars as possible and kept to myself, insidiously funneling gold to Chaos and the Greenskins to smash my enemies from the north and south respectively. And of course when they finally reached my lands I broke them, too. In the end, only after the Empire was a smoldering ruin did I start aggressively expanding my borders, trailing behind the cowed Norscans and claiming the ruins of the Old World for myself. I played like some sort of craven carrion-eater and it felt appropriate as gently caress.
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Jun 27, 2016 23:21
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Triskelli posted:Found some well-done mods that fluff out Slayers a bit more: I don't get why slayers are so much upkeep. I mean, they don't have any armor to upkeep, and it's not like you have to pay them, they have to be slayers since they took the oath. They fit more as cheaper lower tier units IMO.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:17
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Reik posted:I don't get why slayers are so much upkeep. I mean, they don't have any armor to upkeep, and it's not like you have to pay them, they have to be slayers since they took the oath. They fit more as cheaper lower tier units IMO. You're paying for damage incurred by drunken dorfs with a pair of battleaxes each and zero sense of self-preservation.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:20
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Yukitsu posted:Previous games. From the blacksmith in southern Japan to fuel my drive north. Or my Spanish iron mines to the far east of the map. Or getting Grenadiers to the Americas. Or sending falconets to help me conquer the Aztecs. And etc. This was poo poo design and one of the worst aspects of the old games and anything that mitigates it is a good thing. Using lovely militia, levies, and basic line infantry for the entire grand campaign because teching up and transporting troops around everywhere takes a million years and is annoying and frustrating. Big armies of high tier dudes and super units mashing into each other is way more fun in the late grand campaign.
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Jun 28, 2016 04:09
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