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A Batwoman that doesn't look like a vampire? *gasp*
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Jun 29, 2016 16:04
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TwoPair posted:A Batwoman that doesn't look like a vampire? *gasp* Also kinda suggests Bruce missed the point. The vampire look is supposed to her spin on the 'supersitious and cowardly' thing. Getting cornered by a hot athletic lady in leather/spandex/space fabric is one thing. But if you think she's looking to rip your throat out and drink your blood (not unreasonable to assume, considering, as noted, she actually met a for-real vampire, so they do exist in the DCU), that's gonna make you think twice about pissing her off.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:40
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This is why she is drawn as blindingly white as possible? I figured DC was trying to save money.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:03
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Batwoman would be way more interesting if she wasn't a Batfamily character.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:06
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WickedHate posted:Oh yeah, that makes sense. I saw a thing he did of Reed Richards all lantern jawed like a typical 60s man of science and action, and it just did not work imo. I don't know, I think that's about right for Silver Age Reed. Of course, not having seen the picture in question, I don't know if that's what he was going for.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:07
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edit: doublepost
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Jun 29, 2016 17:07
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Wheat Loaf posted:I don't know, I think that's about right for Silver Age Reed. Of course, not having seen the picture in question, I don't know if that's what he was going for. You're not wrong, and it was a tribute to Kirby, but I'm not big on Silver Age Reed. Never been much a fan of the pulp aesthetic.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:08
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Wheat Loaf posted:I don't know, I think that's about right for Silver Age Reed. Of course, not having seen the picture in question, I don't know if that's what he was going for. He's built like a tank in some of Hickman's run too, and it kinda bugged me.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:11
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New 
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Jun 29, 2016 17:37
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Teenage Fansub posted:New I really, really, really hate phrasing it this way but that looks like the logo you'd seen on a cheap bootleg toy.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:42
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does whatever a super can fixes problems in your pipes electric issues of all types hey there he is the super-man
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Jun 29, 2016 17:43
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ImpAtom posted:I really, really, really hate phrasing it this way but that looks like the logo you'd seen on a cheap bootleg toy. Job done! 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 17:49
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Gaz-L posted:Also kinda suggests Bruce missed the point. The vampire look is supposed to her spin on the 'supersitious and cowardly' thing. Getting cornered by a hot athletic lady in leather/spandex/space fabric is one thing. But if you think she's looking to rip your throat out and drink your blood (not unreasonable to assume, considering, as noted, she actually met a for-real vampire, so they do exist in the DCU), that's gonna make you think twice about pissing her off. The only issue I have about her being a vampire is the stereotype of lesbians being vampires. quote="WickedHate" post="461570689"] Batwoman would be way more interesting if she wasn't a Batfamily character. [/quote] Why would you think that? She is tied in a good way, and she is an interesting good addition to the batfamily.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:49
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bobkatt013 posted:The only issue I have about her being a vampire is the stereotype of lesbians being vampires.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:06
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bobkatt013 posted:The only issue I have about her being a vampire is the stereotype of lesbians being vampires. Haven't heard of that stereotype.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:09
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It exists. Thanks, Carmilla.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:11
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greatn posted:Haven't heard of that stereotype. There's a fun movie you should check out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dfYnRtVMxA
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Jun 29, 2016 18:14
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greatn posted:Haven't heard of that stereotype. One of the most iconic 'vampires' and probably the most iconic is Carmilla, who actually predates Dracula and which is lesbian as hell.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:29
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Kate is barely a Batfamily character. Her being in Detective as part of the crew is an extremely recent and unusual development, she's been completely independent since 52 and in fact rejected Batman's offers to join Batman Inc. and work with him on several occasions. Her being so pale is a stylistic quirk that artists who aren't JH Williams don't really know how to handle so it's pretty inconsistent. Her hair is already a wig so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to just pretend she wears goth makeup to conceal her identity even farther.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:31
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ImpAtom posted:I really, really, really hate phrasing it this way but that looks like the logo you'd seen on a cheap bootleg toy. I really hope they fight Tougan, the chief of Mafia, and Doctor Jackstraw, the abnormal drug trafficker.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:34
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Travis343 posted:completely independent since 52 She worked with Dick in an arc of Batman and Robin, joined in on Eternal, and in her solo had a coolass teamup with Wonder Woman and ended up with Clayface, Etrigan and Ragman. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 18:34
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Travis343 posted:Kate is barely a Batfamily character. Her being in Detective as part of the crew is an extremely recent and unusual development, she's been completely independent since 52 and in fact rejected Batman's offers to join Batman Inc. and work with him on several occasions. Exactly my point, she shouldn't be Batwoman and she probably shouldn't be in Gotham either.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:45
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It's fun how no comics came out so all this thread's gonna be is bad arguments for a week.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:48
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WickedHate posted:Exactly my point, she shouldn't be Batwoman and she probably shouldn't be in Gotham either. But the reason she wanted to be a superhero was due to batman. Her family name is also tied into Gotham and the batman family. You are saying she should be a completely different character? She is tied in like Steel is to the superman family.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:55
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I dunno, the Steel movie didn't have Superman in it. 
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Jun 29, 2016 18:57
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Okay, I finished my Bat-Books New 52 readthrough, reading through the entire runs of the comics Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing, Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Batman, Incorporated, Batman Eternal, Arkham Manor, Gotham Academy, Grayson, Robin, Son of Batman, We Are Robin, and Batman and Robin Eternal. I also read all events with basically all tie-ins for every event (Zero Year, Court of the Owls, Night of the Owls, Death of the Family, Requiem, Endgame, both parts of Superheavy, Robin War, Robin Rises) except for a couple of issues of All-Star Western that tied in to Night of the Owls that even I found too loving boring to read, which is saying loving something. I'm gonna run through my opinions on it, so just skip this post unless you wanna read opinions on the last five years of Batman and Batman-adjacent comics. As the main architect of N52 Batman and clearly the guy who was determining its creative direction, Scott Snyder has a pretty interesting trajectory on the main book. When I first started this whole monster of a readthrough I thought Scott Snyder was a total genius bringing a fresh and desperately needed creative direction to Batman that didn't feel like something informed by Miller's stuff for better or for worse. Even Morrison's stuff feels like it's a reaction to Year One/TDKR where it's Morrison sort of trying to repudiate the ideas that TDKR and even Year One put forward about what Batman 'should' be. In contrast Snyder seems to have written with his own sense of style. The easiest example is Zero Year: whatever it is, it isn't Year One, and to me it's a really concise idea for what Snyder's ideas for Batman are. He views Batman as this weird fever dream of clashing styles and heightened lunacy that's impossible to escape from, where things just get worse and worse and worse and more and more and more insane until they finally don't. Like, Snyder's Batman is blimps and neon because of how intentionally confrontational and absurd both things are. Snyder brought back straight up-and-down weirdness back to Batman after Miller basically strangled it in its crib with Year One/TDKR. Even Morrison's integration of Silver Age stuff in Batman R.I.P. (my favorite Batman story ever, full stop) had to be recontextualized in a post-Miller Batman world as mental illness, because that's the world that Miller established. Snyder ignores all that and presents his own Gotham where weird poo poo just sort of happens and doesn't have to be justified, and it makes for a paradoxically cohesive universe. I read through Zero Year first before I read his run as published, and I think that's the best way to read his run - not only because it's the best thing he's ever written, but because it's a really good mission statement for Snyder's Batman. A big theme of Snyder's run is corruption, where Gotham is both a corruptive force and being actively corrupted by the Court of Owls, where Bruce Wayne is destroyed by Batman, where the people are taken advantage of and manipulated and destroyed by Talons or Joker gas or Mr. Bloom's seeds, where the Riddler twists Gotham to his own ends in the aftermath of an act of God, where Gordon tries to be Batman before the very concept of the "Batman" is perverted and controlled to its own ends, and so on and so on. There's even a hint of it at the very end of Superheavy where we see a stable, "fixed" Joker beg Bruce not to be corrupted by the Batman because he, too, will fall as well. Although I hate the general concept of the Batman "creating" the Joker, because it takes agency away from Joker and places it on Batman and is used by total shitheads to justify why the Joker's so cool and rad and awesome, I liked the general idea of showing that the Joker doesn't want to be the Joker any more than Bruce Wayne wants to be Batman. Snyder's new ideas and additions to N52 Batman are basically all awesome. The Court of Owls are the best new villain that Batman has had this century, and their addition clarifies so much of why Batman exists and how Gotham could continue to be such a shithole. The idea that "secret society that silently controls everything about the city to their own nefarious ends" just shouldn't work because it's so goddamned cliche and obvious, and yet it does because of how creepy and weird every part of the Court is and how well they tie into Snyder's central Batman theme of Corruption. It also helps that Court/Night of the Owls, especially the latter, work so incredibly well as stories. In that same vein, Lincoln Marsh works incredibly well as a villain as well despite the fact that he almost certainly shouldn't have (Bruce Wayne's undying evil twin brother? Really?), the Talons are a cool fun threat that make for incredibly difficult enemies to defeat at first, Bluebird is a fantastic new addition to the Bat-Family, Julia Pennyworth is a great supporting character, and on and on. Snyder brought a good handful of awesome new ideas and reinvented some totally tired ones; I don't like Joker, I think he's a dumb and bad villain that Batman would in general be better off avoiding (although I get why he's constantly loving there because people goddamn love the Joker; at this point, though, I'd rather they just segment Joker off into a solo so Joker fans can get their kicks), but Snyder was able to recontextualize Joker and eliminate a lot of his more repugnant elements so he works as a foil to Batman without being a rapey homicidal maniac. As long as you ignore the face cutting off stuff, and you should because that was dumb as all hell, Joker was a pretty good character that Snyder wrote pretty well, especially with Death of the Family. I really loved Death of the Family, and the stuff I didn't like was largely not Snyder's fault (the tie-ins being wildly inconsistent in quality). I loved the fact that it gave Batman a reason to not kill the Joker that didn't boil down to the, at this point, stupid excuses of "My code!" or "I just won't know when to stop", which make Batman look negligent and idiotic, respectively. Making the Joker aware of who Batman really was but just not really loving caring was a smart change, and despite the fact that at this point there's a good half-dozen or more of Batman's villains that know who Batman really is and for some reason or another don't tell anyone else (usually because of the insanely boring and outright tired "Because I, me, will strike the killing blow against Bruce Wayne, Batman, and nobody else shall"), making Joker aware of who Bruce Wayne is and only using it to terrorize Batman makes sense. There's a logic to it that feels right and gives stuff like the park bench conversation at the end of Superheavy extra weight, because a "fixed" Joker only cares about Bruce Wayne, in contrast to a normal Joker caring about Batman. It's coherent. My biggest issue with Snyder is that he has a bunch of really great Batman ideas and concepts, and that's it. My appreciation for Snyder is basically a bell curve, where Zero Year and Night and Court and Death of the Family are all fantastic stories, but as soon as Batman Eternal hits it's a series of increasingly diminishing returns until we hit Superheavy, which is a story that by and large just doesn't loving work. Snyder has a couple of villains he likes to use (Court of Owls/Talons, Lincoln Marsh, Joker) and he gives them all great initial stories, and then keeps loving using them. Especially Lincoln Marsh, a character who flatly doesn't loving work outside of Night of the Owls. His whole appeal is his mystery, and bringing him back as a threat ruins that mystery and mythos and just reiterates how Lincoln Marsh is, in fact, Bruce Wayne's evil twin and how inherently silly of a concept that actually loving is. But yeah, the bloom fell off the rose for me with Snyder with Batman Eternal (a story that really doesn't work at all beyond making Julia Pennyworth/Spoiler/Bluebird into great characters). I know he didn't write it, but he did architect it, and it feels like a good Cluemaster/Spoiler origin story ruined by having a bunch of disparate plotlines that don't loving work (namely all of the Arkham stuff with Batwing, the boringest poo poo in the world) and, most damningly, becoming a bad Lincoln Marsh story at the last minute. If it turns out that Owlman was in fact behind it all it totally betrays the premise of being a story about how a Z-list villain got one up on Batman because of the fact that he's a Z-list villain. And that's largely the problem with Snyder. Batman doesn't exactly turn bad after Eternal but it feels very much a repetition of what came before. It also doesn't help that Snyder doesn't really seem capable of integrating another creator's work into his own very well. I think my biggest issue with Snyder's run on Batman is actually Morrison, if I'm being honest. I've voiced my displeasure with Batman, Incorporated volume 2, and it feels like a story that's an uneasy compromise between both Snyder's and Morrison's vision, pleasing neither. It should've been allowed to be its own thing away from having to fit into Snyder's canon because it just doesn't work in the larger story Snyder's telling to the point where it's blatantly obvious. It's also a thing where it's pretty clear Snyder's deeply disinterested with writing any sidekicks for Batman, but most specifically Damian. I dunno how much he knew about Requiem, but even though he wrote a good tie-in comic - one of the only good ones alongside Batman and Robin's tie-in - his view of Batman is largely as a loner, which to me is the least interesting sort of Batman. It's also why Zero Year is his best work, because he doesn't have to orchestrate a reason why the Bat-Family isn't around because they don't exist yet. The only real except is Death of the Family, which is a story which goes out of its way to alienate and segment off Bruce from everyone else. In any case, Requiem hits and Snyder more or less drops the idea of the sidekick besides Bluebird and arguably Duke Thomas, but even then both characters get deepened in the pages of Batman Eternal/Batman and Robin Eternal and We Are Robin, two comics he didn't write. I've made it clear my love for Damian but without someone to interact with who isn't Alfred Batman is a much less dynamic character, and it's part of why Snyder's run suffers so heavily after Batman Eternal. We've seen all of the stories that loner Batman can really tell, and what's left is much less interesting. I dunno. Morrison created Damian so he should've had the right to kill him off, and that decision should've been respected across all books that were ongoing at the time, but it comes across as Snyder sort of ignoring that Damian exists beyond a good Requiem issue. But yeah, Superheavy was a start-to-finish clusterfuck. I sort of admire what Snyder was going for with a new Batman, but Robo-Bat and Gordon Batman was just awful. And I can recognize that Snyder was trying to make a point of showing his version of a failed Batman, but Gordon isn't even an interesting failure like, say, Azrael was, he's just boring. Superheavy comes across as Snyder sort of having an idea of where to go from Endgame - "Let's make Bruce an amnesiac who doesn't know he's Batman and therefore isn't any more, so we make Gordon put on the cowl instead" - and getting up to script the first issue before realizing that this idea totally doesn't loving work at loving all. Robo-Bat is dumb, Gordon's relationship with it is dumb, the entire concept of a secret Batman program of the police is dumb and comes across as a worse copy of the "three Batmen" idea that Morrison had. It just doesn't work and Snyder is very clearly uncommitted to the premise almost immediately and the entirety of Superheavy comes across as a waste of time. Nowhere is that more evident than when bearded Bruce shows up and suddenly his slow fall back into becoming Batman becomes the far more interesting story (especially his relationship with reformed Joker). But yeah, everything that Gordon does in the suit just doesn't work at all and Superheavy comes across as a story that should've been strangled in its crib because of how half-assed Gordon-Bat is. Mr. Bloom feels like an interesting concept for a villain that falls apart because Gordon is fighting him, and if it weren't for those last two issues (especially all the brain death/Julie Madison being the one to "kill" Bruce, even if it's real loving on the nose) Superheavy would've been an outright failure. I especially hated when Batman showed up after and told Gordon that Mr. Bloom was "his" supervillain or whatever because holy poo poo is that a really authored and forced way to pretend that Gordon's time in the cowl was valid and earned over a giant mistake that Snyder ran away from immediately. If you're gonna put Gordon in the suit, put him in the suit over going "poo poo this doesn't work at all well better have Bruce show up immediately and cut out Gordon's legs from under him". So yeah, by the end of Snyder's run I was really grateful that King is the new guy, because Superheavy was just one mistake after another to the point where I completely lost faith in Snyder as a writer and architect of the Batman segment of books, the guy determining its creative direction as a whole. Because, wow, Superheavy was loving bad. To address the non-Batman, non-Snyder Bat-Books: Nightwing was actually a pretty good series that a lot of people don't really talk about. Grayson is clearly the superior book, but Dick trying to rebuild the circus only for it to collapse and his subsequent trip to Chicago actually made for some fun stories, even if they weren't like the greatest thing ever. Grayson sorta suffers because I think it's slightly overhyped, but only slightly; it's the only book that really ran with Morrison's ideas and made them work. Spyral and the school for girls with the skull masks were good ideas that Grayson used well, and I really loved how Dick's butt is somehow so wondrous that people can recognize him on sight no matter what disguises he uses due to his rear end. I just prefer Dick as a superhero over a super-spy, and I have to admit the "everyone on the world now forgets you" MacGuffin felt pretty loving orchestrated even if it's mostly sold by Helena saying that the world needs a Nightwing. Detective Comics was basically completely unmemorable for the entirety of its run. I read all 52 issues of it and I honestly couldn't tell you virtually anything that happens in it outside of a really good Zero Year tie-in. I think it had a good Two-Face backup? Gail Simone's Batgirl is underrated and Batgirl of Burnside is overrated. Like, people pretend that Simone's run is total trash but it's really not, and although James Gordon, Jr. is a garbage baby idiot loser character Simone gave Batgirl an actual dedicated supervillain (the same way that Nightwing got Two-Face) in Knightfall that feels like a villain that Batgirl, especially the Batgirl that was Oracle, would fight. Simone's run is actually pretty decent and although I prefer Barbara as Oracle, where she's far more dynamic and interesting a character, if you're gonna bring her back as Batgirl having her deal with PTSD over being paralyzed makes sense even if Simone went kinda overboard at points. It's a far better take then the Burnside run which completely ignores that she was ever paralyzed except for the very end of it where she suddenly does. I...don't think Fletcher and Stewart's run on the book is that great. I mean, it's fine, and in a way it's nice that it tries to bring back fun and lightness to what is a very dark and depressing world, but it orchestrates a bunch of changes that feel both forced and desperately trying to appeal to Millenials in a way that comes across as complete artifice. It pairs Barbara off with Luke even though that relationship is eye-rollingly dumb and goes nowhere, and tries to put Frankie in the Oracle position but completely misunderstands that Oracle isn't awesome because it's a paralyzed girl being able to control robots and poo poo, it's awesome because it's Barbara Gordon doing it. Putting Frankie, a character I actually really like, in the Oracle position comes across as Fletcher and Stewart not getting why Oracle is a cool loving superhero and figuring a find-replace works just as well when it really doesn't. Also, Frankie's disability fluctuates wildly from issue to issue in a way that doesn't really make any sense. Fletcher and Stewart also end up Batman-ing Batgirl where suddenly Batgirl is the least interesting part of her own book, where Dinah and Frankie and Bluebird and Spoiler are far more appealing characters than Batgirl who just becomes generically cheery and honestly kind of lame. With a sweet as hell costume. Alysia is one of the best additions Simone brought to her run on Batgirl and Fletcher and Stewart completely drop the ball on the character (and Alysia's coming out as trans feels inadequately followed up on because Fletcher and Stewart divorce themselves from her character and her relationship to Barbara pretty much immediately). Her marriage feels totally unearned as a plot beat because Batgirl of Burnside did basically zero work in making her a part of the new status quo, like Fletcher and Stewart sort of stealing Simone's work on a character for a plot beat they actively worked against completing. They also misunderstood the appeal of Alysia - to me, what makes Alysia so cool is that she's a great and very close friend of Barbara while also being a lovely person, not a villain but just, you know...kinda lovely. Making her generically cheery and nice feels like a microcosm of what Fletcher and Stewart did with Barbara Gordon, sanding down her rough edges to make a totally generic Teen Girl Squad of besties forever. It also doesn't help that Batgirl of Burnside comes out in a post-Ms. Marvel world, and is very clearly a reaction to and attempt at aping Ms. Marvel. And the problem is that Batgirl is so much more superficial and empty than Ms. Marvel which deals with race and being Othered and being caught between two cultures and trying to find an identity for yourself while Batgirl is a bunch of rich white millenials texting about how awesome their lives are and getting drunk at clubs. It feels like a cheap copy that misunderstands why Ms. Marvel works and, although is nice in the reading, is the emptiest of empty calories. It also doesn't help that Batgirl is hyped to hell and back, because I don't think it deserves the insane acclaim it gets. It's fine. Batgirl of Burnside is fine. That's kind of all it is. If anything, I'd rather it be a Birds of Prey story with Batgirl/Black Canary/Spoiler/Bluebird, since that seems to be the wavelength it's trying to operate on. On the other hand Gotham Academy is basically exactly what I hoped the new Batgirl would be, where it's this fun and light but still kinda serious story that has some level of depth to it. I think it's also that everyone in Gotham Academy is a new character, and it has a strong throughline of trying to be better than your own past (from the teachers being mostly former supervillains to Killer Croc living in the sewers to Olive being Calamity's daughter). It feels like a full story in a way new Batgirl never was and was an immensely appealing story. I haven't read the Yearbook issues, and probably won't, because I don't like anthology stories, but yeah. Really, really like Gotham Academy. Batman and Robin was pretty goddamn wondrous from beginning to end and it makes me wonder if Peter Tomasi is, in fact, the secret MVP of N52 Batman. Great stories, great Requiem issues, and it was able to live with and do a good series of stories for a significant length of time with the new status quo that one of the title characters is dead and still end up reviving him in a way that was both suitably epic while also being pretty emotional. "The Omega Section...the death that this time, is truly life!" shouldn't have made me choke up because of how goddamn goofy it was but it was able to be both (and a great reference to Final Crisis besides). Great series. Probably the, on the whole, best single series of the New 52. As aforementioned, Batman Eternal is a loving mess that's mostly bad with a pretty atrocious ending, which sucks because of how overall plot crucial while still being bad it ends up being. If you want to see good Bluebird and Julia stuff and the rise of Spoiler, or the context for the Arkham Manor mini (which ended up pretty great if I'm being honest), you kinda have to read Eternal, even though you shouldn't. Because it's not very good and 52 loving issues long, Jesus Christ. On the other hand Batman and Robin Eternal ended up really goddamn great, reintegrating Orphan into the canon in a really clever way while giving everyone in the Bat-Family some long-overdue screentime all together. It even uses Midnighter well beyond "gay Batman", which is pretty loving crazy. gently caress, it even has a good Jason Todd arc, which is absolutely loving insane. But yeah, B and R Eternal ends up being a great story on what Robin(s) mean to Batman and their importance to him as a character while setting up a really good original archvillain. Probably number two best series of the N52 behind Batman and Robin. Robin, Son of Batman is pretty loving great, and a really really good solo series that kept its quality throughout. I even like the romance they started to outline between Damian and Maya Ducard and hope that, in some point way in the future, those two kids end up paired up together. We Are Robin had a great first arc and a not great second. The first arc introduces a lot of fun, compelling characters and gives Duke Thomas a lot of depth (before Superheavy turns him into a selfish rear end in a top hat) and sets him up a s a good next Robin. Robin War is kind of a mess (I can see where they were going for and it's honestly some really good bookkeeping, with giving a backdoor explanation to the Nightwing name that made sense and giving a good reason for Duke to elect not to be a Robin), and due to it the arc after for We Are Robin is an unfocused mess that ends up giving the comic another loving Joker, because of course it loving does. I like the idea of a street-level army of Robins, but Robin War changes the status quo so permanently and breaks up the group in so definitive a way that We Are Robin just doesn't really work as a comic any more. Even though, ironically, none of the changes from Robin War, especially the Robin laws, are at all permanent. It's just weird, Robin War is good clarification of stakes and good status quo changes for Dick and Duke but everything else kind of sucks, and a lot of its status quo changes are themselves bad for books moving forward. We Are Robin should've just ended on the Robins stopping a school shooting, there was no reason it had to be a Jokerz school shooting and it's actively worse because of the Joker association. A weird book, if I'm being honest. But yeah, that's N52 Batman done and dusted. Snyder's run and overall plan for the Batman section of DC is a bit of a confused mess and I'd love to read a postmortem about it, because I really want to know how much of it is his fault and how much if DC editorial. It just feels like the bottom drops out on Snyder's run once Batman Eternal ends and although there's some good, even great stuff afterwards, he sorta ran out of steam. It's especially weird that he basically never used any villains that weren't the Riddler, the Joker, or Court of Owls related at all during his entire run on the book or as "showrunner", for lack of a better term, for N52 Batman. He had this huge library of rogues to use and he centralized so much of it around three - really two, considering that Riddler was only really a threat during Zero Year.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:06
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Toxxupation posted:Okay, I finished my Bat-Books New 52 readthrough,
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Jun 29, 2016 19:11
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I heard the Bat-Books were Actually Good during the New 52 as opposed to everything else which was varying flavors of Not Good.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:18
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It's all Snyder. I recall in interviews he was going "We thought about ending with the Batman/Joker fight, but went gently caress it. Let's go out with the craziest most polarizing thing I can think of, and it got greenlit." Also, All Star Western rules, Bat Gordon rules (I can't wait till his action figure is out at the end of the year) and read Midnighter. Toxxupation posted:everything else which was varying flavors of Not Good. Nuts to that. There's plenty to go back to. For a start, check out the other thing Snyder was doing and get on Swamp Thing/Animal Man (e: but not Superman Unchained.) Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 19:20
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Toxxupation posted:I heard the Bat-Books were Actually Good during the New 52 as opposed to everything else which was varying flavors of Not Good. I only read the first six issues of some books of the nu52, but demon knight, swamp thing, animal man, and Aquaman were all good for those 6 issues.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:29
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Because there's been a lot of really good Batman comics in the last five years!
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Jun 29, 2016 19:29
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What's wrong with Superman Unchained? I thought it was pretty good.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:31
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I got turned right off in the first issue but can't remember why. I should give the whole thing a shot if it's on a Comixology sale some time 
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Jun 29, 2016 19:36
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Yes, do what he says when he said read Midnighter. It's good. Also good are Black Canary, Lemire's Green Arrow, Superman American Alien, Lois and Clark, and the first 35 issues of Wonder Woman.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:37
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Detective No. 27 posted:What's wrong with Superman Unchained? I thought it was pretty good. It's okay. My biggest problem was Dan Didio telling a room full of retailers that it was named "Unchained" because of how much he liked the film Django Unchained and he was dead serious.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:43
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Rhyno posted:It's okay. My biggest problem was Dan Didio telling a room full of retailers that it was named "Unchained" because of how much he liked the film Django Unchained and he was dead serious. Ha. At least someone was able to remember the classic image of Golden Age Superman breaking the chains and remake it as a cover to salvage that.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:46
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There were a more than a few really good New 52 books, even at launch. I will maintain this until my dying breath. However, at the time and especially in hindsight, a lot of the aesthetic choices and the confused and mounting desperation that was apparent to everyone successfully managed to to keep everyone at arm's length even when the books were good. This was not helped by the fact that for every good book there was a book that was especially dire. Semper Fudge fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 19:47
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Detective No. 27 posted:Ha. At least someone was able to remember the classic image of Golden Age Superman breaking the chains and remake it as a cover to salvage that. I know a few people clashed with him over it, it was supposed to be titled Man of Steel because there wasa loving movie with that name coming out.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:49
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Why does everyone forget that I, Vampire existed and it was really really really good.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:01
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Does the Barbara/Luke relationship get really dumb after the second trade (of Batgirl, I mean)? Maybe it's because I've not read Batwing, but it doesn't seem like an awful choice. Also, I've not read any Batwoman, but there are two Batwomen, with similar names and looks? What's up with that? Oh, and for the Elseworlds people, DC is releasing Elseworlds collections! The Batman one is out and it looks like it collects some good stuff. I think the "Justice League" one is next, but seems to mostly be a catch-all one, it's got some Justice Riders, Titans: Scissors, Paper, Stone and I think some Wonder Woman stuff. And after that is a Superman collection which... well, I've heard good things about Speeding Bullet, and I heard Kal is mostly decent? But other than that it seems to collect that awful Superman Elseworlds. Like Superman: At Earth's End or Superman/Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:03
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