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I'll defend the first Thor as an underappreciated gem of the MCU but yeah, Thor 2 was the weakest of the lot thus far, despite some really fun character stuff with the Asgardians.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:37
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ashpanash posted:Sounds like WB hosed up royally with jumpstarting the DC Cinematic Universe. I'm sure a movie that was just a letdown in the later fights rather than a nigh-incomprehensible clusterfuck would have done much better. It's a lot easier to suspend disbelief and forgive issues if you're at least entertained. I know it's cliche and I'm not a Marvel fanboy but, yeah. Setting up a "universe" maybe should take a little bit of time. It felt rushed to me from the moment it was announced (BvS) and I think at least one more MoS movie and one Batman movie before BvS would have helped an awful lot. Not because "this is how Marvel does it" but just because there's so much loving story to tell. Yeah, yeah, I know. We're all comic book nerds and we know this and that and "we already know who Batman, Superman, Cyborg, Aquaman and Wonder Woman and Flash are" but I think the final product bears my opinion out and on screen, as told, it made no god damned loving sense. The movie was a huge mess of disjointed ideas. Imagine if Iron Man 1 had Hulk, Thor and Iron Man all fighting each other while the Kingpin pulled the strings, complete with You Tube cameos by Quicksilver, Namor, Cable and the Cosmic Cube on Wilson Fisk's laptop, with little or no explanation. Wait. Actually, strike that because that sounds pretty cool.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:44
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Toxxupation posted:The more important point is that in direct comparison to BvS there are zero, absolutely no MCU films that are as much of convoluted overstuffed messes as BvS is. Not that there are no bloated MCU films, because jesus christ is Age of Ultron a goddamn disaster. No there's Iron Man 2.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:48
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You can set it up just fine in one or two movies, provided those movies are clear and well done.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:49
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X-O posted:You can set it up just fine in one or two movies, provided those movies are clear and well done. You can do it in one or two acts, which is why The Lord of the Rings was a successful movie franchise.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:15
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ImpAtom posted:BvS is bad but at least its failures are interesting to discuss. Thor 2 is a giant blank spot on the universe. As someone who liked Thor 1 quite a bit, Thor 2 is legit bad. Frigga's death took me completely out of it to the point where I stopped watching, and I was already disliking how focused they seemed on making the Asgardian stuff sound more like "alien future tech" compared to the more fantasy aims of the first. I'm sure Loki was fun and engaging, but I couldn't really stomach it. Compare that to BvS, where nothing outright takes me out and if anything Wonder Woman sells me back in (even if admittedly she doesn't serve much purpose which is why she should have killed Doomsday and sent the boys home, but anyway)... but that's the big event movie, not a side event's sequel. Compare that to Captain America: Civil War which I saw twice in theaters.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:55
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Aphrodite posted:No there's Iron Man 2. Iron Man 2 just kinda goes nowhere, it's not really a mess.
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Jun 30, 2016 08:44
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There is a movie, a sequel to that, and upcoming sequels on that. Some how this is loving up "setting up a universe," whatever that is. The universe part of these movies is always the least interesting one. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 10:23
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It's loving up "being a good movie" that "humans can enjoy".
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Jun 30, 2016 16:12
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I would rather watch IM2 then Thor 2 or Beavis.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:40
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Anora posted:I would rather watch IM2 then Thor 2 or Beavis. Same, but switch IM2 and Thor 2 around.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:44
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IM2 at least has RDJ and Sam Rockwell carrying it. Even if the story is kind of a mess I would watch two hours of Rockwell dancing
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Jun 30, 2016 19:46
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Thor 2 is a very nothing movie for me. Outside of the final fight, which I remember liking, I can summon no emotion towards it whatsoever. I mean, I'm sure I liked and disliked parts of it, but none of it stuck.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:47
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Neither Thor 2 nor IM 2 are as bad as the tragic tire fire of a mess of a "film" that is IM 3, the movie that goes out of its way to poo poo on disabled people for the cowardly action of wanting missing limbs back and Tony Stark magically fixes PTSD with the power of willing himself real hard.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:50
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Anora posted:I would rather watch IM2 then Thor 2 or Beavis. Beavis and Butt-head Do America was really good, actually.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:52
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The biggest problem I had with Thor 2 was that I watched it at home during daylight hours and couldn't meaningfully see anything that happened in any of the dark realm because of all the filtering.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:10
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I have to put BvS over Thor 2. I only saw both once, but I remember stuff about BvS. Moments that were legitimately cool and stuff that was legitimately terrible. Thor 2 I only remember little patches. None of them particularly stand out. Loki had some good banter, but I expect that from him. I'm pretty stoked for Ragnarok focusing on the Asgardian stuff. I feel no attachment at all to Jane or Kat Dennings or Dr. Science. Iron Man 2 is clearly suffering from Spider-Man 3's problem of trying to tell way too many stories. I might edge it out over BvS though. RDJ is more charismatic than any of the leads in that movie. Thor 2 and IM3 are prolly the only MCU movies is put under BvS. Which is more about Cap's trilogy and Ant-Man and Guardians being amazing. Not BvS being horrible. I want to watch the director's cut, but I didn't enjoy the original enough to ever pay for it. I'll catch it at a friend's house years down the line and probably forgive a lot of its flaws.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:14
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Toxxupation posted:Neither Thor 2 nor IM 2 are as bad as the tragic tire fire of a mess of a "film" that is IM 3, the movie that goes out of its way to poo poo on disabled people for the cowardly action of wanting missing limbs back Or murder.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:15
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Toxxupation posted:Neither Thor 2 nor IM 2 are as bad as the tragic tire fire of a mess of a "film" that is IM 3, the movie that goes out of its way to poo poo on disabled people for the cowardly action of wanting missing limbs back IM3, best IM. redbackground fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 20:19
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redbackground posted:Well, that, and the whole wanting to publicly assassinate the President deal... The whole point of the movie is drawing a direct parallel from Tony's PTSD to the Extremis people (who are explicitly shown to be decorated war heroes to further the analogy since IM3 is all about the fallout of Avengers) wanting their limbs back, only for Tony to just buck up and think real hard on Christmas day after he met a magical little kid in comparison to Extremis people being corrupted and destroyed by taking a "shortcut", i.e. Extremis, in the first place. Either the film is saying a really ugly thing about the triumph of the will and some Objectivist horseshit or is so poorly made it accidentally says it, and either way it's terrible.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:25
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That's not the "whole point of the movie," it's not even dramatized.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:27
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Aphrodite posted:Or murder. You're not going to win this conversation. We've had it before and he intentionally ignores parts of the film because he's upset they weren't accurate to the canon and is retroactively trying to justify that.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:30
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ImpAtom posted:You're not going to win this conversation. We've had it before and he intentionally ignores parts of the films because he's upset they weren't accurate to the canon and is retroactively trying to justify that. I dunno what the gently caress you're talking about or what disingenuous strawman arguments you're attributing to me as per usual. I don't give a poo poo about the canon and only care about the fact that the film portrays PTSD as something you can just think your way out of and be all better from. Because that's, you know, a loving terrible thing to say about a serious medical condition people actually suffer. It's why I always laugh about whenever people say IM2 or Thor 2 or AoU are terrible films (outside of the Black Widow stuff in AoU which is actually pretty ruinous). I'll take a bad or boring movie over an actively offensive one any day of the week. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 20:33
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MrAristocrates posted:That's not the "whole point of the movie," it's not even dramatized. I wouldn't even bother, its Occupation.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:37
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Everyone knows American soldiers are bloodthirsty maniacs, Iron Man 2 just told the truth.
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Jun 30, 2016 20:57
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Iron Man 3 is the best Iron Man movie and its high up there in terms of marvel movies.
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Jun 30, 2016 22:00
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Toxxupation posted:and Tony Stark magically fixes PTSD with the power of willing himself real hard. Going by Age of Ultron and Civil War, I'd be really hesitant to say Tony Stark's recovered from his PTSD.
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Jun 30, 2016 22:23
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Im2 had the problem of setting up the [element] poison as a major thing and then just magically solving the problem in a montage and never discussing it. Im3 main issue for me was the ptsd thing where everybody is rightfully making GBS threads on Tony because all he does to placate himself is build more suits and when the time comes to fully psychologically recover from that (even though afaik that's totally not how ptsd works and it's making GBS threads on people who actually have it to imply that it is) he...repairs his suit. Case closed. Even though it had been discussed repeatedly that that was not the solution. And then avengers 2 crapped all over what character development had taken place. I watched bvs ultimate yesterday and it was decent. My first time seeing it so i don't know what was in the theatrical cut and what wasn't but it was already hanging by a thread so taking anything out would've been terrible i can tell. Affleck was cool, fishburne was a dick the whole movie, Superman having existential angst was kinda dumb but at the same time this is a time when he's just getting started i guess and he hasn't really gotten to the point where he just has to say gently caress the haters yet, Lois was alright but honestly it felt like her story was there just because they had a big name for the role and had to give her something to do, wonder woman was cool and I'll watch that movie.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:24
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I started to write a real effort post about Thor before I realized I could sum my ideas about the character in two words. Thor sucks.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:29
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Oh yeah and the guy from house of cards wasn't in the movie at all and Doomsday's first form looked dumb as poo poo. He's a literal troll.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:32
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BiggerBoat posted:I started to write a real effort post about Thor before I realized I could sum my ideas about the character in two words. Chris Hemmsworth playing him as a cocky rear end in a top hat in the first film is probably as detailed and quality a characterization you're ever going to get, but after that, it's doldrums.
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Jul 1, 2016 01:34
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greatn posted:Iron Man 3 is the best Iron Man movie and its high up there in terms of marvel movies. Give Shane Black control of the MCU
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Jul 1, 2016 02:43
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greatn posted:Iron Man 3 is the best Iron Man movie and its high up there in terms of marvel movies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBKy93OGeOg
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Jul 1, 2016 03:13
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X-O posted:The problem lies in letting it be bloated enough to need that kind of runtime in the first place. Like just start the movie with the white THE WORLD MEETS THE SUPERMAN scene and go. Cut Bruce walking out of a helicopter and have him already in the thick of it. There's so much padding in the film it's amazing that they decided to keep some really boring poo poo in (Oh Diana almost made her flight but now she steps off) at the cost of character development. But It'll probably make for a really interesting Phantom Edit when it's out.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:04
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The murdered Waynes scene is short and a good way to establish Batman's motivations. It needs to stay.
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Jul 1, 2016 06:06
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The murdered Waynes scene is short and a good way to establish Batman's motivations. It needs to stay. Plus his motivation gets a better scene 10 minutes later when he's cradling a scared girl in the middle of a cratered city, his fabulous wealth (as signified by his crumbled building and family name) is meaningless.
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Jul 1, 2016 07:09
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After batman was one of the biggest franchises of the last decade i think we couldve done without the origin story yet again Just saw civil war for the first time tonight. Mega awesome but tbh its late and i dont wanna effort post about it rn. Just sayin
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Jul 1, 2016 07:57
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Superman's origin is pretty famous too, but that didn't stop Morrison devoting the first page (and just the first page) of rear end to it. It introduces a main character, sets up the tone of the film, is directly relevant to a later plot point ("Martha") and looks good doing it. It's the kind of scene the movie needed more of, not less.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:06
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I thought I'd seen Toxx's worst posts in the kickstarter thread where he threw a tantrum about Tim Schafer, but trying to act like Iron Man 3 is a bad movie is even more ridiculous.Doctor Spaceman posted:The murdered Waynes scene is short and a good way to establish Batman's motivations. It needs to stay. gently caress off. Everyone knows Batman's motivation. The last thing anyone ever needs to do is film that loving scene again.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:27
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FilthyImp posted:They could have cut the whole Murdered Waynes scene at the beginning, placing it instead later (maybe interspersed with his crazy CrossFit training or something), and wholly excised the stupid funeral scene/christlike rise. We don't need to see the long art-student death of his parents twice in the goddamn movie. The scene with the Wayne murder is important because it links their deaths with Batmans fight with Superman, AND with Supermans funeral. The crux of the whole Martha bit hinges on it being a recreation of the Murder of the Waynes, with Superman as Thomas Wayne. Without the setup, it becomes even more random than it already is. It also visually links to the funeral scene, hinting at Bruce's guilt over his death, and just as Batman was once born out of his grief and guilt over his parents, so he is reborn out of his guilt and grief over Superman.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:33
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