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Rexides posted:
Civ 3 had this and then, if I recall correctly, the expansions totally hosed it up. Here's Sullla spouting the good poo poo, again. quote:6) The Medieval Infantry: Although technically this was a change from the Play the World expansion, it can be considered here as well. PTW was essentially an alpha version of Conquests shipped out to the public to make money before it was even remotely ready, so I think it's fair to consider the (minimal) changes of PTW. The Medieval Infantry, or MDI for short, was probably the worst unit added to Civ3 in terms of balance. The standard version of Civ3 forced the player to make a classic strategic choice in the Ancient Age. On the one hand, you could pursue war with swordsmen, who at 3/2/1 possessed the highest attack and defensive stats of the age. Swords required iron though (the most valuable resource), and were slow-moving and could not retreat from battle if losing. Most importantly, swordsmen were a dead-end unit; no upgrading, ever. Any shields invested in them were only good for a relatively small window of opportunity. Horsemen, on the other hand, were fast and could retreat from battle if losing. They had much lower stats than swords though, at only 2/1/2, and cost the same 30 shields. Unlike swords, horses had the advantage of being upgradable to first knights and then cavalry, so they were the much better long term investment. Thus the choice: do you go with the superior defense and greater punch of the soon-to-be obsolete swordsman, or with the speed and upgradability of horsemen? These kind of choices are the meat of strategy games; take them away and chess turns into tick-tack-toe.
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Jul 1, 2016 20:23
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Yeah, but that's not really what I was saying. That's great metagame and all, but giving a unit a penalty (compared to other units) that only becomes apparent many turns later is not really that cognition-friendly. I'd rather every unit go through only three or so upgrades, so that players know that nothing lasts forever and don't have to choose between units that way. If you want to build a horse dude rather than a sword dude, it should be because horses are cool, not because one upgrades forever and the other is a technological dead end.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:07
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I really like the idea of weighing up a great army that risks going obsolete vs an upgradable cheaper force, but the civ 5 system of building fewer, more expensive, more durable units doesn't really fit with this at all. I wonder what sort of balance 6 will strike.
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Jul 2, 2016 04:02
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Tree Bucket posted:I really like the idea of weighing up a great army that risks going obsolete vs an upgradable cheaper force, but the civ 5 system of building fewer, more expensive, more durable units doesn't really fit with this at all. I wonder what sort of balance 6 will strike. It appears to be a single line of upgradeable, core melee troops, with a series of "auxillary" units stackable on the core troop, e.g. Archer, artillery etc
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Jul 2, 2016 05:11
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Cythereal posted:Well of Souls says there's a day/night cycle in the game, too. Also, Tea is a new bonus resource that yields extra science. I really wonder why coffee and tea have never been luxuries before, considering their historical importance. They should add kola nuts as a late game luxury too.
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Jul 3, 2016 02:58
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Tea as a science booster is just the most wonderful bit of world building.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:19
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there's an old poem about making coffee spurs elucidating conversations or whatever, i'm gonna try to find it. It came out when they were still called "berries" instead of coffee beans in the meantime you might as well add in tobacco weed & poppies too I guess. has anyone made a TCC themed mod before?
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Jul 4, 2016 16:28
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SniperWoreConverse posted:there's an old poem about making coffee spurs elucidating conversations or whatever, i'm gonna try to find it. It came out when they were still called "berries" instead of coffee beans I'm not sure but I think tobacco is in
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Jul 4, 2016 22:44
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As England I'm going to see how quickly I can obtain Tea with Milk and two Sugar.
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Jul 5, 2016 07:46
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Checking out the channel to see if they've put up the next Civ reveal yet, I noticed they've started Wonder videos since last Wednesday. Nothing too informative, it's just watching them all get built, but hey, maybe they'll show off something new sometime. The Pyramids The Great Library The Eiffel Tower
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Jul 5, 2016 18:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWRx6vJNvw Those facial expressions made me physically recoil.
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Jul 6, 2016 15:43
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Egypt First Look Egypt UA: Wonders and districts build faster when adjacent to a river, flood plains don't block wonder and district placement. Cleopatra's UA: International trade routes starting in Egypt gain bonus gold. International trade routes with Egypt other civilizations start generate bonus gold and food for the other nation. UU: Maryannu Chariot Archer - Bonus movement when starting on open terrain. UI: Sphinx. Provides faith and culture. Sphinx gets bonuses when adjacent to a wonder.
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Jul 6, 2016 15:45
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Egypt's theme seems to be Wonder-centered wealth this go around; they don't get the Ancient/Classical Wonder rush boost of Chinese Builders, but they get accelerated Wonder building in all eras, and with Faith acting as another fairly all-purpose currency (and Culture as a second "Science" track), it'll probably be worth it to toss around at least a few Sphinx improvements. The double boost to Gold from trading should also keep them flush with material wealth. Appears like a fairly well-rounded builder Civ; not particularly aggressively or defensively inclined (beyond the natural defenses that crossing rivers provides), but flexible through purchasing power. A.I. Cleopatra looks to be destined to clash with A.I. China (and A.I. America if on the same continent).
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Jul 6, 2016 21:30
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Is it just me or does that video show chariot archers firing at range 2?
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Jul 6, 2016 21:53
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StashAugustine posted:Is it just me or does that video show chariot archers firing at range 2? Yes it does - but that shouldn't be surprising, it was the same in Civ 5. On another note, this video raises more questions about how river crossings work... to quote myself: JeremoudCorbynejad posted:towards the very end of the gameplay video, a scout with 3MP has the option of crossing a river into a flat grassland tile but can move no further (not even into a second flat grassland tile). At the start of the video, a builder can... so either there's a builder-specific rule or a scout-specific rule (and I'm guessing the former, because why would the scout be the only unit with restricted movement?) I no longer have the faintest clue how river crossings work, this latest video throws up too many questions  Edit: can anyone reconcile these movement rules? What's the rule here? Bearing in mind that the chariot in the final screenshot has 2 out of 4 movement left. I can't tell whether it costs 3MP to cross a river, or 2MP, or what.    
Microplastics fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 22:35
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Edit: can anyone reconcile these movement rules? What's the rule here? Bearing in mind that the chariot in the final screenshot has 2 out of 4 movement left. I can't tell whether it costs 3MP to cross a river, or 2MP, or what. Looks like 2 to cross a river+2 to enter a forested/hilly area. In the bottom screenshot looks like there might be roads between the wonders and the city (bridges), hence cutting the MP requirement
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Jul 7, 2016 03:33
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I really like that at two of the three civs we have seen so far have unique districts, it will be really nice to look at the map and immediately understand that you are looking at Egyptian or English lands. They are much more interesting than Unique Units in my opinion, because terrain improvements have traditionally had more shelf life than units.JeremoudCorbynejad posted:On another note, this video raises more questions about how river crossings work... to quote myself: Hey man, it's cool that you are super perceptive like that, but the two videos might have been taken during different points in the development process and the rules might have changed in between. Not to mention that they can change yet still until the release day (or even after).
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Jul 7, 2016 07:34
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Rexides posted:Hey man, it's cool that you are super perceptive like that, but the two videos might have been taken during different points in the development process and the rules might have changed in between. Not to mention that they can change yet still until the release day (or even after). Yeah I did consider that, but it doesn't even seem consistent in the same video (the Egypt one). I think I figured it out though. The chariot archers have 3MP and I was mis-reading the ZOC situation - that's why they have only 1MP left after crossing the river. The last shot just demonstrates their special ability (extra MP when starting in plains)
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Jul 7, 2016 07:59
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Rexides posted:I really like that at two of the three civs we have seen so far have unique districts, it will be really nice to look at the map and immediately understand that you are looking at Egyptian or English lands. They are much more interesting than Unique Units in my opinion, because terrain improvements have traditionally had more shelf life than units. Agreed! The minigame of placing moai and chateaux in 5 was a lot of fun. City design in 6 could well end up being its most interesting feature. Incidentally, I'm not 100% sure of this, but isn't the sphinx described as an improvement rather than a district? There's something very Egyptian about choosing not to use your Builder on a farm or a mine but a giant useless stone statue of a lion headed guy...
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Jul 7, 2016 09:38
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Rexides posted:Hey man, it's cool that you are super perceptive like that, but the two videos might have been taken during different points in the development process and the rules might have changed in between. Not to mention that they can change yet still until the release day (or even after). if you change such a core rule in the game at this late a stage in development, you hosed up and your game is probably poo poo
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Jul 7, 2016 10:05
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Yes it does - but that shouldn't be surprising, it was the same in Civ 5. Yeah but it sucked there and I was hoping they'd change it with the new unit stacking system
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Jul 7, 2016 13:08
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Phobophilia posted:if you change such a core rule in the game at this late a stage in development, you hosed up and your game is probably poo poo Whoa settle down beavis.
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Jul 7, 2016 13:34
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Tree Bucket posted:Agreed! The minigame of placing moai and chateaux in 5 was a lot of fun. City design in 6 could well end up being its most interesting feature. It's a guy headed lion 
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Jul 7, 2016 13:52
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Rexides posted:It's a guy headed lion I sort of hate myself a bit now
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Jul 7, 2016 13:56
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Phobophilia posted:if you change such a core rule in the game at this late a stage in development, you hosed up and your game is probably poo poo lmao okay
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Jul 7, 2016 14:01
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They did have lion-headed statues, to be fair. Not male, though.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:02
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ManifunkDestiny posted:Looks like 2 to cross a river+2 to enter a forested/hilly area. In the bottom screenshot looks like there might be roads between the wonders and the city (bridges), hence cutting the MP requirement  I thought so too, but look at this. You can tell that this unit has 4MP because it can get onto the hill marked X, and can also circle around the zone of control to get to Y. Tile Z is the issue. Unless it costs 2MP to enter tundra then this MP estimate is wrong. That same tile also seems to be come an issue in the second screenshot where we can determine that the unit again has 4MP, but can't enter that same tile. The only thing I can up with is that it's a bug in that tile that makes it impassible. I've come up with two different movement schemes that work for every scenario pictured, and both were defeated by Tile Z.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:06
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The Human Crouton posted:I thought so too, but look at this. You can tell that this unit has 4MP because it can get onto the hill marked X, and can also circle around the zone of control to get to Y. Tile Z is the issue. Unless it costs 2MP to enter tundra then this MP estimate is wrong. Costs 2MP to cross the river, it looks like, from that screenshot in isolation. Which is an improvement over Civ5's 'costs all remaining MP' thing.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:25
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Aerdan posted:Costs 2MP to cross the river, it looks like, from that screenshot in isolation. Which is an improvement over Civ5's 'costs all remaining MP' thing. And if it costs 2MP to cross a river then that unit should be able to reach tile Z.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:26
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Could be 3 to cross a river, or maybe chariots are worse at corssing rivers than other units.Phobophilia posted:if you change such a core rule in the game at this late a stage in development, you hosed up and your game is probably poo poo lol, you're becoming a caricature.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:32
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The Human Crouton posted:And if it costs 2MP to cross a river then that unit should be able to reach tile Z. I am a dingus and can't count, clearly. I can't imagine why tundra would be impassable, though, unless there's supposed to be a district there or something.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:32
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Aerdan posted:I am a dingus and can't count, clearly. I can't imagine why tundra would be impassable, though, unless there's supposed to be a district there or something. I'm assuming that this just has something to do with the early build they are using.
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Jul 7, 2016 14:49
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StashAugustine posted:Is it just me or does that video show chariot archers firing at range 2? God I hope not. That plus OUPT ruined 5 for me. I love the Civ series but depending on how well the limited stacking in 6 works I'll probably end up just continuing to play 4.
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Jul 7, 2016 15:06
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I hear civ iv is still a good game, so I'm sure you'll have fun with that.
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Jul 7, 2016 15:07
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The two new stacking mechanisms in Civ 6 are just there to reduce the unit carpeting that happens in later stages of the game, not to fix anything about combat vs. AI.
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Jul 7, 2016 15:10
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I actually beat Civ 4 for the first time last week (didn't get it until a year or two ago, I think I got it for getting BNW on release). I kind of want to try it more but so far it's the absolute best game I don't like.
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Jul 7, 2016 15:29
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The Human Crouton posted:
That's what got me too but I think I have it figured out. The chariots have 3MP. The hill costs 2MP but can be entered with the last 1MP (like in Civ5). The southernmost tile can be entered if the Chariot heads east first, then southwest, then southwest again (it's only when moving from one ZOC to another that all MP gets eaten up) They've definitely changed the rule since the earliest gameplay video though.
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Jul 7, 2016 17:21
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If the tundra was classified as a hill, wouldn't that prevent movement to it?
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Jul 7, 2016 17:23
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berenzen posted:If the tundra was classified as a hill, wouldn't that prevent movement to it? Nope. If you have at least 1MP remaining and the tile is not impassable (mountain, occupied by an unstackable unit, etc.), you can move into a tile with any terrain feature.
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Jul 7, 2016 19:27
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Aerdan posted:Nope. If you have at least 1MP remaining and the tile is not impassable (mountain, occupied by an unstackable unit, etc.), you can move into a tile with any terrain feature. in civ v. we don't know if thats how it works in civ vi
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Jul 7, 2016 19:37
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