|
This game was great, and the ending was very much on-par with Uchikoshi. I kinda expected a non-ending since this is the third game in a trilogy, meaning it's the Remember11 of the zero escape series, so I was actually pleasantly surprised when the characters didn't manage to forget a super important thing and so baby phi is dropped off a cliff or something.
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 10:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:More numbers trivia: this is some 9/11 esque grasping for straws poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:this is some 9/11 esque grasping for straws poo poo. If people really do comb around for hidden meanings and messages when there are none then this game is more like MGS V than I initially thought.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 12:58
|
|
|
Hey, guys, it's creepy theory-crafting time!Theory posted:The game ends with Eric and Mira getting married. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
I don't think you can help give birth to yourself though
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
Tell that to Delta and Phi, even though that's more indirect assistance than anything. Though, admittedly, this would be more along the lines of Eric somehow creating himself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 14:19
|
|
|
Being half of the source of your own DNA would be literally impossible Not even Zero Escape's insane world could make that happen
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 14:44
|
|
|
Really Pants posted:why the gently caress is Carlos suddenly a rapist and what is this "proof of friendship" poo poo When this happened I first thought he tried to create a dangerous situation for himself in the most retarded way possible so he could SHIFT somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 15:17
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:Being half of the source of your own DNA would be literally impossible It's like that famous short story about the woman turned man who enters a bar and time travels to impregnate himself. Know which short story I'm talking about? - Akane, Zero Escape 4
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 15:39
|
|
|
Argue posted:It's like that famous short story about the woman turned man who enters a bar and time travels to impregnate himself. Know which short story I'm talking about? Don't watch the movie.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
So I just randomly realised two things about Siggy. When Diana meets old-Sigma, for Diana it is the first time they meet and for Sigma it is the last time he will see her(assuming rad-6 ending). And for Sigma the only chance at a life in non-red earth is to go through the whole loop and then shift into young sigma, and then hope that he doesn't get the shaft again during ZTD in one way or the other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Mindblast posted:When Diana meets old-Sigma, for Diana it is the first time they meet and for Sigma it is the last time he will see her(assuming rad-6 ending). Doesn't she go live with him on the moon for three whole years in that ending? For me it was kind of strange that C-team was the one doing all the shifting. I thought the main purpose of VLR was to give Sigma & Phi mastery over that, but that wouldn't allow for retrocausality babies. Still, kind of a step down from "The man on the moon rules the infinite time." Orabilis fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Orabilis posted:Doesn't she go live with him on the moon for three whole years in that ending? That's during the 45 years of prep begun by young Sigma after witnessing the reactor explosion; ZTD Sigma returns to the very end of VLR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
Motto posted:That's during the 45 years of prep begun by young Sigma after witnessing the reactor explosion; ZTD Sigma returns to the very end of VLR. Yeah. Basically when Old Sigma fails in the VLR timeline he knows he's about to end up going back to 2074 and live out the rest of his life having failed to save both humanity in general and the woman he loved specifically.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:1. Since he's acting as deaf and blind one of the other team members would have to wheel him around with them. They hid any evidence of the guy in the wheelchair being pushed around when they move from room to room. They could have written around this by making Q team immobile, so there wouldn't be any pushing to hide, but nope. They don't necessarily had to have pushed him. I mean, they were knocked out every 90 minutes and awoke in a different room. This would have included Q (in their eyes at least). Also, in all teams, it didn't show them actually moving anywhere most of the time. This is contrasted with VLR (you see on the map them walking around EVERYWHERE). Usually, the pattern would be: wake up in strange room, find a way out, then snap to back in the lounge talking. It is consistent with C and D team. If they had a super secret 4th member like that, we wouldn't have known either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
C7ty1 posted:-No finale puzzle room. At least it wasn't Sudoku, that puzzle room cracked me up. All that effort to help a kid learn how to play Sudoku.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
MegaZeroX posted:They don't necessarily had to have pushed him. I mean, they were knocked out every 90 minutes and awoke in a different room. This would have included Q (in their eyes at least). Also, in all teams, it didn't show them actually moving anywhere most of the time. This is contrasted with VLR (you see on the map them walking around EVERYWHERE). Usually, the pattern would be: wake up in strange room, find a way out, then snap to back in the lounge talking. It is consistent with C and D team. If they had a super secret 4th member like that, we wouldn't have known either. I guess, but they still kept him out of view for no plot reason other than to shockingly reveal that he was out of view all along. It strains the ability to buy into the narrative. Like, if he said at the end that he had Mind Hacked everyone into not mentioning him because he wanted to trick ?/the player into not noticing he was there, that would have been dumb but still would have worked better because there would at least be an in-story reason for him being overlooked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Are there any scenes besides the one where Gab is chained to Q's wheelchair that they even acknowledge the guy at all? I rewatched it and a big wall prevents you from ever seeing anything more than the shadow of the wheelchair, but aside from that I can't think of anything. Delta's existence also makes the standoff in the library retarded. They knew Sean was not technically part of the team, considering he didn't have an X pass, why would Mira and Eric not both immediately just off the old man in the room to get out instead of shooting a literal child. I think that's probably one of the biggest problems I have with Eric, I understand he's unstable but the fact that he constantly is accusing what looks like a 10 year old kid of all this poo poo was always really hard to accept. Especially regarding Mira, how the gently caress would a 3 foot tall kid strangle a full grown woman to death?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:While I enjoyed how stuff from previous games were remixed here (Most notably the return (Or origin?) of the AB Game), I wish there would have been a puzzle based around Digital Roots somehow. Solving the anagrams would have been cool too. I assume that's where Akane originally gets the idea. I thought it was going to be one of those timetravel paradoxes, where it has no start, but no. Delta thinks of it, then Akane uses it again. ...Unlike Diana's/Phi's brooch, which is never made. Diana get's it from Phi, who gives it to Phi, who eventually gets burned alive, so Diana gets it back. It has no origin.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:Are there any scenes besides the one where Gab is chained to Q's wheelchair that they even acknowledge the guy at all? I rewatched it and a big wall prevents you from ever seeing anything more than the shadow of the wheelchair, but aside from that I can't think of anything. I made a reddit thread where we went to find clues. Also, someone just found this:  
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:06
|
|
|
Holy poo poo. I never realized that Eric's little brother was Gab all along
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
holy gently caress what a twist
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
I knew there was something off about that dog.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
 I'm dumb, what is this? It's the scene after Sean said I DONT KNOW to Eric.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
What... I... the gently caress?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
it's a bug
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
I'm gonna ignore that. Chris is a good dog now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
Tired Moritz posted:
It's the remains of the blood of Akane's corpse/Carlos arm that happened in the fragment previous to that. Another clue that all is happening in the same ward.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Weird, I thought those were burn marks, or maybe scraping.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Crossposting from the other thread because yeah sure it fits better here: VLR/ZTD ending talk: Well, there are a couple things that are confusing about the whole thing. Blick Winkel does not have a physical body, so wherever Kyle went, it was not into Blick Winkel's body. Actually, Blick Winkel has never been observed to knock people's consciousnesses out when he observes people. That's a shifter phenomenon; Blick Winkel is not a shifter, he's some extradimensional entity that works in ways that are not well understood. So if we want to take Akane's statement as true, then someone - a shifter with a physical body existing in 2028 - switched bodies with 2074 Kyle. So far the only time we've been able to observe this it's been the same person switching bodies with themselves in another timeline. That just confuses things further, though. But if we overlook that, then a possible interpretation that fits with Akane's statement is that someone - possibly Delta - switched bodies with 2074 Kyle, sending Kyle's consciousness to 2028 in his body. At the same time, Blick Winkel observes the consciousness that is now in 2074 Kyle's body. Akane's conversation with 2074 not-Kyle then makes sense if you assume she switches from talking to the person in Kyle's body (all references to switching consciousnesses is at the beginning of her speech) to directly addressing Blick Winkel towards the end (where she tells him to go back to 2028 and observe/change the outcome of the Dcom experiment. Of course... that still leaves us wondering where the hell Kyle's consciousness is supposed to be in 2028. Delta is the only character I can think of it that plausibly fits the narrative, but the total absence of any hints towards that in ZTD means we can't know that. It would be somewhat poetic, I suppose, for Sigma's biological son to swap places with Sigma's other, cloned son. At any rate, Blick Winkel then goes back to 2028 and observes the Dcom incident as part of Zero Time Dilemma and does everything we, the player, did.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
Butt Ghost posted:Weird, I thought those were burn marks, or maybe scraping. It was Gab wiping his rear end on the ground
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:54
|
|
|
Shear Modulus posted:I guess, but they still kept him out of view for no plot reason other than to shockingly reveal that he was out of view all along. It strains the ability to buy into the narrative. Yeah, in the games I've played, there's always an in-universe reason for the twist: Ever17's plot revolves around tricking the player to get a desired outcome, VLR is much the same because the plot would derail if Sigma knew who/when he was from the get go, and 999 is kinda fudgy but Akane appears to be narrating directly to the player. ZTD, Delta is... blocking the surveillance cameras in a very specific way so he doesn't ever see himself? What? Why? Why does does Delta care if he can see himself in the footage or not? It's literally a twist for twists sake. But I think the far more pressing plot hole is... why are Delta and Gab chained up in the ending where Q Team melts the other teams, literally the only time in the entire game this happens? Did he chain him and the dog up himself? Why, so Mira has on opportunity to yammer on about the Sleeping Beauty problem for a bit? So Sean won't try to leave and shut down the moment he steps outside the facility? Sure wouldn't stop that in the Crossbow Ending!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Kerning Chameleon posted:Yeah, in the games I've played, there's always an in-universe reason for the twist: Ever17's plot revolves around tricking the player to get a desired outcome, VLR is much the same because the plot would derail if Sigma knew who/when he was from the get go, and 999 is kinda fudgy but Akane appears to be narrating directly to the player. ZTD, Delta is... blocking the surveillance cameras in a very specific way so he doesn't ever see himself? What? Why? Why does does Delta care if he can see himself in the footage or not? It's literally a twist for twists sake. I mean, VLR doesn't have an in universe explanation for why the screenshots of Sigma are all off. Not showing Signma is entirely for twists sake. There is also no way to even begin guessing the twist. I'd imagine Delta and Gab are tied up, as Delta doesn't want to have leave with everyone. He doesn't want to be lonely, so he keeps Gab.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
So a few days ago I literally marathoned ZTD over the course of a single day and my brain has finally calmed down enough to say that seeing the fragment thumbnail of Akane with a chainsaw is the most excited I've been about a video game in a very long time, it was the first thing I did post-vote and it immediately sold me on the entire game. There were a lot of really great moments throughout the entire game, almost all the C-team stuff was the best imo. I don't really have any major problem with the ending except for the lack of Kyle, which was very odd... I thought he was going to be used to explain how the teams were able to access each other's memories instead of just their own, like he became the Holy Spirit of the morphogenetic field or something. ...So now that ZE is done.. I've been thinking of playing the Infinity series. The first one is Never7, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
just play Ever17, it's the best one and even it's not great
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
sockpuppetclock posted:...So now that ZE is done.. I've been thinking of playing the Infinity series. The first one is Never7, right? I've heard that you should skip Never 7 and go into Ever 17. You shouldn't play Remember 11 before Ever 17. I've never played Never 7, but I've played the rest. Cake Attack posted:just play Ever17, it's the best one and even it's not great Remember 11 is my favorite, despite the biggest issue with it. MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Cake Attack posted:just play Ever17, it's the best one and even it's not great It's almost shocking just how light fare it is compared to Zero Escape.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
Kerning Chameleon posted:It's almost shocking just how light fare it is compared to Zero Escape. Tbf some of the ending twists are top tier uchikoshi. the kid looking into the mirror and seeing hokuto is basically the sigma was old the whole time twist except stands up much better under scrutiny
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:40
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:At any rate, Blick Winkel then goes back to 2028 and observes the Dcom incident as part of Zero Time Dilemma and does everything we, the player, did. This is actually one of the more disappointing things, for me, about how the plot turned out in ZTD. Something which VLR hinted at was that the whole notion of BW as an observer had a bit of moral ambiguity to it. The VLR epilogue, which is the only part of the game that directly hints at BW's existence in the story, doesn't actually unlock after seeing the "true" ending. What you actually had to do to access it was see everything before that point, which usually meant going back to the few decisions that were skipped because they were obvious Bad End decisions, and doing them anyway. While wrapping up those loose ends in VLR, I started thinking about how the story structure of VLR (and 999, to a more restrictive degree) allowed you to essentially see all the written outcomes without penalty. So you can make the choices that get people killed and then blithely skip off to a different section of the story where that never happened, where it didn't matter. Now, look at ZTD, where all the decisions are often worse, and the outcomes often worse for some of the characters, but the same lack of connection to the decisions themselves by the player is the same. Oh, I just shot Sigma in the head. Oh, I just let Phi burn to death. Oh look, Sigma made it out this time! Sure, I'll press this button in the decontamination room. Ewww! Now, time to look over here instesad... This led to a great moment in one of the decon rooms when I have Diana push the button to see what plot was on the other side of that decision and she starts freaking out saying she didn't push the button herself. Everything about Diana as a character supports the idea that she would never push that button, so someone else clearly did. The kicker is that there isn't even a point to the alternate paths branching from the decon room - they're on their own separate timeline and are cut off almost immediately after the decision is made, and nothing in them feeds you information you need to get to the actual "true" ending. So given what I knew of the VLR epilogue and how it emphasized the observer was going to be important in ZTD, my reaction at this point was "oh poo poo, BW and by extension myself just killed a bunch of people for no reason beyond curiosity what the gently caress". Where I thought this was going was that the overall direction of the game was going to make BW and by extension the player themselves the actual antagonist driving the plot. How, why, I didn't know yet, but previous games had tackled crazy enough concepts that I figured they'd be able to make it workable if that's where they're going. Turns out that wasn't where they're going and it was just mind control. I mean, okay, but that's still a bit of a letdown, personally. 999 and VLR both have some pretty trippy concepts about time travel and psychic information, but they're also written so that practically the entire plot of each game is spent justifying those concepts and explaining the internal logic of how they work, even if you don't realize that's what was happening until the very end. Delta walking out a door in the last act and saying "I can read, and control, human minds" comes out of nowhere and the player is expected to just take that on faith, which is why it didn't have the same impact to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 17:41 |
|
|
Platinumed after about twenty & a half hours. I got stuck a lot by overlooking non-obvious hotspots in puzzle rooms and that was a little dumb, but otherwise game's good, series is good What's the deal with this card, though?  It's not a puzzle hint as far as I know, and it's too short for anagrams unless Zero's ultimate wish is for Crash Keys to become a meme corporation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:58
|
|
