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It's a hint in the pod room, that you want to Zero out the numbers in the center dial thing
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Jul 3, 2016 21:00
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Really Pants posted:
it was a puzzle hint you needed to reduce the number in the wheel to 0.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:00
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MegaZeroX posted:I've heard that you should skip Never 7 and go into Ever 17. You shouldn't play Remember 11 before Ever 17. I've never played Never 7, but I've played the rest. Never 7 has some ~okay~ plot twists but it's mostly a by-the-numbers romantic visual novel with uchikoshi madness just splashed in. The only stuff in it that relates to the other two games is mostly explained in Ever 17 anyway. And I agree, Remember 11 is totally worth playing, just expect a bad and dumb ending
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Jul 3, 2016 21:02
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Really Pants posted:What's the deal with this card, though? It's a hint for a puzzle in that room - remember the huge-rear end dial with a number in the middle that you had to make become zero?
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Jul 3, 2016 21:06
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Gonna echo that Never7 is alright and really only worth playing if you want to see where Uchikoshi was starting out, but Ever17 and Remember11 are much better despite flaws in the latter. The evolution from Never7 to Zero Time Dilemma is interesting from an auteurist perspective at least. EDIT: The Sora route is kind of bad in Ever17 as well, now that I'm thinking about it. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 21:17
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Raxivace posted:EDIT: ...Sora... is kind of bad in Ever17 as well, now that I'm thinking about it. Agreed, Luna best artificial waifu.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:25
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I enjoyed Never7. It's definitely the weakest of the series, but there's no reason not to try it if you can get it. I'd advise playing it but skipping ahead to Ever17 if you get bored. Playing them in the opposite order is possible, but Ever17 spoils one of Never7's main mysteries so it's not ideal. There's also Root Double which technically isn't written by Uchikoshi but you seriously won't be able to tell the difference.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:37
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There is one true thing about all of Uchikoshi's games: There's always a motherly major character. Never7's canon romance is with the motherly character, Ever17 has Sora and Tsugumi, Remember11 has the character that's listed as "Great Mother" in the opening video, 999 has Lotus (which is also her entire motivation as seen in the submarine ending), VLR has Luna, and ZTD has Diana. I'm not entirely sure WHY, but it's a pattern I've noticed
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Jul 3, 2016 21:39
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Phi is the best waifu in the whole series. Fight me.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:40
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I never played Never7 so I can't really comment on that one though I've been told it's kind of boring, but I think Remember11 is a much more interesting VN than Ever17 as well. Remember11 has a lot of problems including twists that don't really go anywhere and a bit of a non-ending, but at least things actually happen in it that keeps you interested. Ever17 has some fantastic lategame twists, but the problem is that everything leading up to it is slow, boring and plodding and the pacing is all kinds of off. No I don't want to read about everyone except Tsugumi kicking a can for 40 minutes straight as a way to keep themselves entertained, nor do I want to read about Sora becoming a "real woman". It's the one thing all the Zero Escape games do better than the Infinity series despite their problems, poo poo actually happens during the game that keeps you interested. Although, in a way ZTD kind of suffers from the same problem Ever17 does in that little happens until the second half where you're finally getting some answers but at least ZTD has puzzles and life and death decisions to make in the first half to keep you engaged, while Ever17 has everyone eating chicken sandwiches and acting like kids when they're trapped underwater and only have a week left to live. There's no real tension.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:42
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Gloomy Rube posted:There is one true thing about all of Uchikoshi's games: There's always a motherly major character. There's also always an evil pharmaceutical company. He really seems to have something against the industry.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:43
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Did it ever explain how Delta could find out who his parents were
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Jul 3, 2016 21:45
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I didn't find Never7 super boring, it's just more of a traditional romance VN with a spattering of sci-fi at the end. It was 1999, and I think that kind of "generic" visual novel breaking into some hard sci fi was a new concept, so that's why it's an interesting footnote. I might actually like Never 7 more than Remember 11, because Remember 11 does not have an ending!!!
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Jul 3, 2016 21:46
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Shear Modulus posted:Did it ever explain how Delta could find out who his parents were He has a big computer for processing alternate histories.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:59
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Mind Hacking
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Jul 3, 2016 22:00
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Alternately he knew the date and location of his birth and figured out who exactly his parents were because of the genetics of the 8 DCOM people. I mean Diana is kind of obvious because of Phi, and you have 4 men in the experiment, 2 of which are in relationships, 1 of then is a blonde American, and the last is a guy named Sigma who he mind hacked and saw his relationship to Diana
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Jul 3, 2016 22:04
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Terper posted:Mind Hacking You just don't understand, his motives are complex. Although really, Akane has the same ability Delta does minus being able to directly manipulate people into doing actions against their will for a split second. She hacked into Junpei's mind in the future to solve a sudoku puzzle in 999 if you remember. Unless she does have the ability to mind control people too in which case welp, she's a more powerful esper than Delta is.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:06
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Terper posted:Mind Hacking I'm not gonna lie when he said something like "I also have one more ability....MIND HACKING" I had to hold back a laugh.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:07
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A cool thing from the epilogue files is how it explains that Phi raised herself. After Phi was sent to 2008 from 1904, the Phi left behind in the input pod grew up to become a researcher and adopted the 2008 Phi.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:08
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exploding mummy posted:Alternately he knew the date and location of his birth and figured out who exactly his parents were because of the genetics of the 8 DCOM people.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:12
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Mr. Fortitude posted:You just don't understand, his motives are complex. You could also play the theory that ? was part of the play and provided the information to akane as a bridge between the two timelines
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Jul 3, 2016 22:12
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Mr. Fortitude posted:You just don't understand, his motives are complex. Akane is probably the most powerful esper in the series.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:19
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:This still remains the biggest hole in Delta's plan to me though. Where exactly does he get the information that he was born in the shelter in 2029? He's in the 1900s by the time he's even capable of thinking, he can't SHIFT into alternate timelines to find out, and he can't Mind Hack anyone with that knowledge because it literally hasn't happened yet. Where does he learn about his birth? Presumeably from other SHIFTers. He can also access the morphogenetic field and obtain information about the future, from the future, like Akane did at the end of 999. He just can't shift his consciousness into an alternate version of himself. flyboi posted:You could also play the theory that ? was part of the play and provided the information to akane as a bridge between the two timelines Possibly, though that'd probably be more of a retcon since I don't think 999 was made with ?/Blick Winkel in mind. exploding mummy posted:Akane is probably the most powerful esper in the series. Yeah. Actually if she was powerful enough to mind hack to the same extent Delta was then how do we know that Sigma and Junpei aren't being influenced against their will? Although I suppose the counter to that argument is that she wouldn't have let Junpei and Carlos do half of the things they did in ZTD. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 22:23
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:This still remains the biggest hole in Delta's plan to me though. Where exactly does he get the information that he was born in the shelter in 2029? He's in the 1900s by the time he's even capable of thinking, he can't SHIFT into alternate timelines to find out, and he can't Mind Hack anyone with that knowledge because it literally hasn't happened yet. Where does he learn about his birth? As an alternate possibility, there were also 2 people who knew when he was born that he was exposed to that he could have mind hacked for information.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:25
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Gloomy Rube posted:There is one true thing about all of Uchikoshi's games: There's always a motherly major character. Never7's canon romance is with the motherly character, Ever17 has Sora and Tsugumi, Remember11 has the character that's listed as "Great Mother" in the opening video, 999 has Lotus (which is also her entire motivation as seen in the submarine ending), VLR has Luna, and ZTD has Diana. I'm not entirely sure WHY, but it's a pattern I've noticed serious answer: 'mother' is one of the three female character archetypes which are often used together: the other two are 'maiden' (Phi, Akane) and either 'whore' (Mira) or 'crone' (Mrs Not-Appearing-In-This-Game) once you know about it you will start seeing it everywhere, have fun
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Jul 3, 2016 23:00
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Box of Frogs posted:A cool thing from the epilogue files is how it explains that Phi raised herself. After Phi was sent to 2008 from 1904, the Phi left behind in the input pod grew up to become a researcher and adopted the 2008 Phi. I actually misunderstood Phi's talk about being raised by researchers and assumed she was raised by Diana and Sigma in the future, which lead to me getting the D force quit box solved incredibly early, so I was really confused by the picture with the babies in it that flashes by. Edit: I think calling Phi a 'maiden' is stretching it a tad
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Jul 3, 2016 23:21
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Gloomy Rube posted:I actually misunderstood Phi's talk about being raised by researchers and assumed she was raised by Diana and Sigma in the future, which lead to me getting the D force quit box solved incredibly early, so I was really confused by the picture with the babies in it that flashes by. Where do you learn about the music box if you haven't done the twins ending?
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Jul 3, 2016 23:25
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NRVNQSR posted:Where do you learn about the music box if you haven't done the twins ending? You might figure it out early if you played VLR. Luna has Diana's music box, and it becomes fairly obvious that Diana is the inspiration for Luna. They have similar looks, personalities, leitmotifs, name associations, and Sigma considered Luna to be his daughter. Its not much of a stretch to figure out that Sigma got Luna's music box from Diana. I might have cleared it early if I didn't keep misspelling the brooch as broach. Orabilis fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 23:45
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Agreed, Luna best artificial waifu. Hearing Diana say things to Sigma like "YOU DON'T HAVE THE BALLS TO SLEEP WITH ME!" in their one ending was great.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:05
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Orabilis posted:You might figure it out early if you played VLR. Luna has Diana's music box, and it becomes fairly obvious that Diana is the inspiration for Luna. They have similar looks, personalities, leitmotifs, name associations, and Sigma considered Luna to be his daughter. Its not much of a stretch to figure out that Sigma got Luna's music box from Diana. I might have cleared it early if I didn't keep misspelling the brooch as broach. Sigma states outright that he built Luna as a replacement for his lover who died after spending three years on the moon, and built Luna in her image. If I remember right, that conversation happens really early on, potentially, so I sort of saw it as a foregone conclusion that Sigma and Diana were going to shack up at some point (though I didn't exactly see the Phi/Delta thing coming until they started talking about mementos).
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Jul 4, 2016 00:07
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I've read that Delta made clones of his dead adoptive brother Left. Is there a scene I'm forgetting/have missed in ZTD that says that or is it inferred from VLR?
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Jul 4, 2016 00:12
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Box of Frogs posted:A cool thing from the epilogue files is how it explains that Phi raised herself. After Phi was sent to 2008 from 1904, the Phi left behind in the input pod grew up to become a researcher and adopted the 2008 Phi.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:37
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Delta is 124.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:40
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I've read that Delta made clones of his dead adoptive brother Left. Is there a scene I'm forgetting/have missed in ZTD that says that or is it inferred from VLR? Inferred in ZTD, stated in VLR. VLR stated that Brother (Delta) started Free The Soul because his brother Left had been beaten up and murdered when he was 16. One of the things that he did with FTS was grow clones of Left. Dio from VLR is one such clone. Delta mentions briefly in passing that he had a brother from his adoptive parents, but he doesn't speak much more of that in ZTD.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:51
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"MIND HACKING" was a pretty amusing way to reveal it but I guess it arguably makes some sense if you explain it as one twin controlling minds separated by time (SHIFTing) vs one controlling minds separated by space (MIND HACKING).
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Jul 4, 2016 00:56
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There's one thing I don't understand. In VLR, young Sigma shifted with old Sigma. At the end of the game, he shifted back with old Sigma to the time when Radical-6 got released. Since ZTD happens before the outbreak with the possible outcome of never happening, does that mean young Sigma is doomed to stay in the VLR history while old Sigma stays with Diana in the new history?
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Jul 4, 2016 01:08
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Txn posted:There's one thing I don't understand. Old Sigma is basically Poor Marty in the ZTD branch, yeah or theoretically, he'll still come back to the present and Old Sigma will return to the VLR timeline to close the loop. Old Sigma can go back to spending time with Phi and Luna, Young Sigma gets to deal with Diana and having a 104+ year old daughter OJ MIST 2 THE DICK fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 01:22
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Junpei also kindof mind controlled Akane at the end of 999. It's not that much of a stretch to say that the field can be used to control people (especially given the transmitter/receiver metaphor they keep mentioning) but there probably should've been other examples of it in the series. I find the fact that team Q had an old man in a wheelchair following them around all the time to be a bigger issue but hey.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:30
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exploding mummy posted:Old Sigma is basically Poor Marty in the ZTD branch, yeah Now I know why D-Team never got an epilogue. If he doesn't shift, he gets a happy ending while young Sigma works as hard as he can to ensure he gets a happy ending while screwing his younger self; if he did shift, Old Sigma will live happily on the moon with Luna, Phi and Lagomorph  while young Sigma will be confused surrounded by people he doesn't know outside of Phi and Akane, then deal about Phi being his daughter and also a 124 years old son who was responsible of the whole mess.Life is simply unfair. 
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Jul 4, 2016 01:36
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Linguica posted:This seems hard to believe. That means old-Phi would have literally been, like, 104 years old when she STARTED raising baby-Phi. That's what is says, though. I'd like to know what machinations old Phi had to go through to convince her research facility/child protective services/etc. to allow her to raise baby Phi after she was already in triple digits. Completely random, but finishing this game has made me even more excited for Steins;Gate Zero.  I love me some time fuckery drama.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:36
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