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Irony Be My Shield posted:Junpei also kindof mind controlled Akane at the end of 999. It's not that much of a stretch to say that the field can be used to control people (especially given the transmitter/receiver metaphor they keep mentioning) but there probably should've been other examples of it in the series. in 999 it was more telepathy and less mind control that was being tested AlternateNu posted:That's what is says, though. I'd like to know what machinations old Phi had to go through to convince her research facility/child protective services/etc. to allow her to raise baby Phi after she was already in triple digits. "I'll raise her like if she was myself"
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Jul 4, 2016 01:39
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I need a good ZTD image/quote for my new avatar.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:39
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Mordiceius posted:I need a good ZTD image/quote for my new avatar. we could just get you a picture of Akane and keep the same title
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Jul 4, 2016 01:40
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AlternateNu posted:That's what is says, though. I'd like to know what machinations old Phi had to go through to convince her research facility/child protective services/etc. to allow her to raise baby Phi after she was already in triple digits. Given that that Old!Phi would've been a German-raised Dark Project Researcher who was probably brought back with the Allies after the War and was still active on the project in 2004, she was probably a secret black ops administrator by that point and could do whatever the gently caress she wanted
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Jul 4, 2016 01:45
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exploding mummy posted:in 999 it was more telepathy and less mind control that was being tested They specifically stated in 999 that mind control was the end goal of the original Nonary game. Specifically Ace wanted to use a group of projectors to influence and control the population at large.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:54
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honestly the more i think about the more i sour on ZTD. i still liked it overall but it's got a lot wrong with it
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Jul 4, 2016 01:54
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NRVNQSR posted:They specifically stated in 999 that mind control was the end goal of the original Nonary game. Specifically Ace wanted to use a group of projectors to influence and control the population at large. didn't ace just wanna see faces
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Jul 4, 2016 01:55
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Cake Attack posted:didn't ace just wanna see faces Okay, point. But the rest of them wanted world domination.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:56
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Well wasn't Cradle Pharmaceuticals just one of the many corporations owned by Free the Soul? While Ace just wanted to see faces, I've no doubt that Delta was using the Nonary Game as an experiment to see if anyone else has the same mind hacking abilities as him. Funnily enough, it also means Lord Gordain, who invented the Nonary Game was only a member of Free the Soul for about a year. He died in 1931 but Delta only founded Free the Soul in 1930. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 02:03
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I wouldn't think too hard about 999's links with the rest of the series.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:04
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yeah anything about free the soul in 999 is blatantly a retcon.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:05
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Bahahaha. Don't know who gave me this version of red text, but I can't stop laughing.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:18
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Mordiceius posted:Bahahaha. Don't know who gave me this version of red text, but I can't stop laughing. 
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Jul 4, 2016 02:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I wouldn't think too hard about 999's links with the rest of the series. Cake Attack posted:yeah anything about free the soul in 999 is blatantly a retcon. Well it's true that VLR and ZTD weren't planned but Cradle Pharmaceuticals links to Free the Soul aren't that farfetched considering the cultist like ceremonial robes that Snake ends up wearing so even if there were no sequels to 999 there still was some weird connection to a religious or cultist order that the player could infer. It's just ZTD, really, where the links to 999 seem very shaky and it is largely because of Delta's existence. His existence kind of messes up VLR too and I do wonder if him being Brother was a rewrite later into development than the original intention. It just feels a bit sloppy and underbaked.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:22
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Mordiceius posted:Bahahaha. Don't know who gave me this version of red text, but I can't stop laughing. lol
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Jul 4, 2016 02:23
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Mordiceius posted:Bahahaha. Don't know who gave me this version of red text, but I can't stop laughing. Hah. Now I wish you could tell him to Google it as an actual response to that question.
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Jul 4, 2016 02:28
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eric avatar owns
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Jul 4, 2016 02:47
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Mordiceius posted:Bahahaha. Don't know who gave me this version of red text, but I can't stop laughing. Oh my
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Jul 4, 2016 02:50
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it's even a hint as to the true answer to the puzzle, that's a fantastic av
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Jul 4, 2016 02:58
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Cake Attack posted:honestly the more i think about the more i sour on ZTD. i still liked it overall but it's got a lot wrong with it I agree, the plot feels like a draft. I'm glad they're ending the series here because I don't think a fourth game could recover from it. It would be cool if Uchikoshi came up with a new plot/game mechanic if he makes another game.
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Jul 4, 2016 03:39
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"Dio will be in [ZTD], just not as the man we know" Still want an explanation for this, Uchikoshi. Unless at the Q/A he's just going to throw out "...Oh yeah, and Carlos is Left"
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Jul 4, 2016 03:44
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Doesn't every Q&A thing he does have a disclaimer which is like "Stuff is subject to change"
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Jul 4, 2016 05:03
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voltcatfish posted:"Dio will be in [ZTD], just not as the man we know" Honestly if he doesn't handwave it away or own up that he forgot, I wouldn't be surprised if he says that Sean is Left, since he seems like the one person that Delta cared about.
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Jul 4, 2016 05:09
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I don't actually care about the hanging plot threads from VLR
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Jul 4, 2016 05:33
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Also I just want to point out that the Sigma strapped into a chair with a gun pointed at him scene was way lamer than I had hoped. The concept art for it was great.
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Jul 4, 2016 05:48
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Also I just want to point out that the Sigma strapped into a chair with a gun pointed at him scene was way lamer than I had hoped. The concept art for it was great. they kind of ruined it for me by making it the press demo the actual scene I thought was tense as balls, but the concept art was so much cooler than even that
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Jul 4, 2016 05:50
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His plans probably just changed. It's not like we were ever promised more Dio in-game.
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Jul 4, 2016 07:18
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delta mentions he had an adopted younger brother in one scene, as a quick acknowledgement of the whole Left thing, but it's never really expanded on
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Jul 4, 2016 07:20
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I finished this game a while ago and I never actually realised that Delta was with Q team the whole time. I thought he just happened to show up during the explanation of who he was.
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Jul 4, 2016 07:44
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Meiteron posted:Where I thought this was going was that the overall direction of the game was going to make BW and by extension the player themselves the actual antagonist driving the plot. How, why, I didn't know yet, but previous games had tackled crazy enough concepts that I figured they'd be able to make it workable if that's where they're going. Turns out that wasn't where they're going and it was just mind control. I mean, okay, but that's still a bit of a letdown, personally. Frankly, I thought that's exactly what it was. You are Zero. You are playing through Zero's eyes (the cameras), take control of the other characters at key moments, and the ultimate idea of the ending is that you brute-force achieved a happy ending by torturing/murdering countless alternate timelines. Which they go out of their way to emphasize probably counts as actual murder. This was supposed to be morally ambiguous, which is why he gives Carlos the gun at the end (and this is the only choice in the game that you/Zero cannot change the outcome of). I mean, yeah, the story is muddled by making Delta into an actual character with his own separate personality and motives, so I can't say it's as great as it should have been, but I still think it was definitely the intention to have the player identify with the antagonist.
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Jul 4, 2016 08:52
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What other games would you recommend if you I enjoyed the Zero Escape series? I'm guessing Danganronpa?
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Jul 4, 2016 09:50
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Danganronpa is a solid series but it's not quite the same genre as the Zero Escape series. It's very linear and isn't quite as complex. I mean if you like puzzle/murder mystery solving it's a good choice, but if you want a game to confuse you with how the plot is interwoven or with quantum mechanics you'd be looking in the wrong place.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:09
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Clarste posted:Frankly, I thought that's exactly what it was. You are Zero. You are playing through Zero's eyes (the cameras), take control of the other characters at key moments, and the ultimate idea of the ending is that you brute-force achieved a happy ending by torturing/murdering countless alternate timelines. Which they go out of their way to emphasize probably counts as actual murder. This was supposed to be morally ambiguous, which is why he gives Carlos the gun at the end (and this is the only choice in the game that you/Zero cannot change the outcome of). Zero is a pile of melted meat in roughly 1/4 of the game you play.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:12
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Bland posted:Zero is a pile of melted meat in roughly 1/4 of the game you play. Well, obviously he's not literally you since the final decision you make is directly over his dead body, but you definitely identified with him through most of the story. His goals were your goals, and his methods were your methods. (Also he would have been a headless corpse, not a pile of melted meat).
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Jul 4, 2016 10:19
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If old Phi from 1904 jumped into young Phi in 2074, would she speak with a German accent?
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Jul 4, 2016 12:34
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AlternateNu posted:If old Phi from 1904 jumped into young Phi in 2074, would she speak with a German accent? The whole game hinges on the "relay model" of human consciousness, or else the consciousness jump wouldn't work because the brain would be too different. You wouldn't be able to actually retain anything of the jumped consciousness, because none of the neural pathways that correspond to your memories or acquired skills past the point you jumped to wouldn't exist in the brain of the person you're jumping to. But if the brain is just a relay, then you can jump fine because the relay shouldn't actually change. That means that you retain all the acquired skills you gained, including how to speak. But since old Phi's native language is German, that means she's going to speak with a German accent in English. On the other hand, if you jump to where the relay is damaged, you would experience the effects of that damage in executing commands. If young person jumped into themselves at age 80 with Alzheimer's, they'd experience its effects because Alzheimer's seems to be caused by misfolded protein buildup in the brain. Gyre fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 13:11
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AlternateNu posted:If old Phi from 1904 jumped into young Phi in 2074, would she speak with a German accent? I don't think the game ever demonstrated whether it's possible to jump into your transporter clone or whether it's considered a different person, so she might not even be able to.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:25
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NRVNQSR posted:I don't think the game ever demonstrated whether it's possible to jump into your transporter clone or whether it's considered a different person, so she might not even be able to. Didn't they mention (or at least imply) in VLR that Kyle was kind of a back-up body for Sigma to jump into if he need more time to complete the project than what his current body could provide?
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Jul 4, 2016 13:53
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MegaZeroX posted:I mean, VLR doesn't have an in universe explanation for why the screenshots of Sigma are all off. Not showing Signma is entirely for twists sake. There is also no way to even begin guessing the twist. I think the "Sigma is old!" twist is more clever than the "Zero was off-screen/the camera the whole time!" because it takes advantage of the first-person nature of VN mechanics in a subtle way and also that the player never questions why they never see their own protagonist's face in-game despite it being nearly the first thing you do in 999. The former is "holy poo poo, I never thought to check for that!  ", the latter is just "well, yeah, why would I ever think of that?  " which feels cheaper and falls flatter.
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Jul 4, 2016 16:17
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Gotta say delta's ballsy though. He implements a system that can kill him and just accepts it. He could easily avoid the execution but dons the collar anyway.
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Jul 4, 2016 16:51
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