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Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I'm just hesitant to attribute conspiratorial malice to an idea that earnestly dumb but I suppose the two things aren't exclusive.

There is literally no way this isn't intentional. There's trying to see every side to things and then there's ignoring the obvious.

top page edit;

Nuns with Guns posted:

Now, assuming it really was submitted with the content he said it had, the real question is why the writers didn't look at this oc outline and immediately email him back asking for a better one in three days or they would return his money?

I can think of two reasons:

1). Whoever's in charge figured that simply editing the submission into something that isn't dumb garbage would somehow be the more diplomatic solution of the two, or

2). Whoever's in charge decided "yeah okay buddy, thanks for the two hundo," and this is their way of telling that dude to go pound sand.

Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jul 4, 2016

# ? Jul 4, 2016 04:16

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# ? May 9, 2024 17:52

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Some many months ago, I was trawling through reddit (yeah, I know) when I saw an announcement thread for the Blue Rose 2.0 kickstarter. One of the comments was from someone who, on day one of the campaign, said that it'd never get funded and that the book would never get published for all of the reasons that people hate on Blue Rose.

This was a comment that was over a month old, but I replied to it on a lark, basically pointing out that, whoops, joke's on you, Blue Rose funded by 85k out of their original 10k goal.

The person who made the announcement thread, who I assume is part of Green Ronin somehow because they were directly answering questions about the KS, within an hour of me making that reply, gilded/gifted me on reddit.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I think the Green Ronin folks are pretty well aware when someone is taking the piss and are trolling the guy right back. It'd be easy enough to issue a refund or to decline the submission entirely, but now that edgelord's idiocy is there forever.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 04:25

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

They'd definitely know what they're going up against. The kickstarter pitch went over that in detail:

quote:

The first edition of Blue Rose: The Roleplaying Game of Romantic Fantasy drew a lot of attention―and not all of it positive. Some found its take on the fantasy genre refreshing, while others found it confusing, even threatening. The game took bold steps forward in terms of inclusion, such as gay, bi, and polyamorous characters, and gender equality, and weaving those themes into the society and mythology of the world itself, along with themes of cooperation and individuality, good and evil, and adventures beyond the �dungeon.�

...

Why Now?

So why Kickstart a new edition of Blue Rose now? When Green Ronin began the process of turning AGE into a stand-alone game system for supporting multiple settings, one of the first we thought of was Blue Rose, a fantasy world that had something different to offer, that could in turn expand the options available in the game system to include psychic powers and a focus on character motivations and inner struggles, among other things.

We also felt that we could improve Blue Rose. A lot has changed in gaming―and society―in the ten years since the original edition of the game was published. A new edition for the AGE system offers us a great opportunity to carry forward the setting's ideas with the advantage of a decade of hindsight and new understanding, as well as player feedback.

Most important, we feel that games like Blue Rose are needed. Awareness of the importance of representation and inclusion in the hobby and the industry has grown in recent years. Now publishers need to follow-through on that increased awareness and deliver games that help to fulfill its promise. That's what we're looking to do with this Kickstarter so, if you agree, we would really appreciate your support.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 04:32

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Yeah, the whole thing smacks of one those types who feel that "MAH FREEZE PEACH" lets him override things like decency or taking the feeling of others into account, and this is the only way people like that can "prove" their "point" that somehow being expected like a respectful adult is censorship.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 04:39

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

remusclaw posted:

I think naming the bird "Trigger Warning" is a pretty good clue that this isn't the case.

Blue Rose has talking horses, doesn't it? The bird tells you when they're coming.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 05:02

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

There's also the possibility that he's conveniently forgetting wasting the editor's time when they tried to perform due diligence.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 05:19

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

gradenko_2000 posted:

Some many months ago, I was trawling through reddit (yeah, I know) when I saw an announcement thread for the Blue Rose 2.0 kickstarter. One of the comments was from someone who, on day one of the campaign, said that it'd never get funded and that the book would never get published for all of the reasons that people hate on Blue Rose.

This was a comment that was over a month old, but I replied to it on a lark, basically pointing out that, whoops, joke's on you, Blue Rose funded by 85k out of their original 10k goal.

The person who made the announcement thread, who I assume is part of Green Ronin somehow because they were directly answering questions about the KS, within an hour of me making that reply, gilded/gifted me on reddit.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I think the Green Ronin folks are pretty well aware when someone is taking the piss and are trolling the guy right back. It'd be easy enough to issue a refund or to decline the submission entirely, but now that edgelord's idiocy is there forever.

This actually reminds me of the time that a few RPGsite posters scraped up some money to buy a banner ad for the RPGsite on RPGnet as part of their longstanding war with Eastasia. I don't think I'm breaking any sort of mod discretion bylaws by saying that Shannon Applecine's response to that was, more or less, "lol okay, thanks for the money guys." I mean RPGnet ran the banner ad, you get what you pay for, but there's something singularly self-defeating about deciding that the best way to really show somebody what-for is to give them your money.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 05:32

inklesspen: Oct 17, 2007; Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.; Buglord

Dude's still complaining in the comments. I'm not gonna crosspost them here because this isn't grogs.txt, but drat, Kickstarter needs some way to deal with bad apples like this guy.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 08:21

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Bieeardo posted:

There's also the possibility that he's conveniently forgetting wasting the editor's time when they tried to perform due diligence.

Yeah, that came to mind too. It could be he was noncommunicative or stalled, deliberately or otherwise.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 08:43

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Nuns with Guns posted:

All of this would be a better addition to blue rose than this guy's oc, which is just an insufferable Kratos knockoff when all sneering attempts to poo poo on the game are purged from his flavor text

Ways to make his Kratos knockoff better:

1) it's not a husband and his sword-wife but a wife and her sword-husband
2) it's not a husband and his sword-wife but a husband and his sword-husband

# ? Jul 4, 2016 08:56

inklesspen: Oct 17, 2007; Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.; Buglord

3) Omit it from the book

# ? Jul 4, 2016 08:57

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Nuns with Guns posted:

Now, assuming it really was submitted with the content he said it had, the real question is why the writers didn't look at this oc outline and immediately email him back asking for a better one in three days or they would return his money?

We don't know that this isn't a reworked version. I imagine an original original that was much more full of direct references like the stupid owl name.

All we have to go on is this rear end in a top hat's calculated pity-seeking version of events, and even that is as subtle as a brick.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 09:23

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

inklesspen posted:

3) Omit it from the book

Well, yes, but that one is too obvious, you know?

# ? Jul 4, 2016 09:40

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

The Sovereign's Finest aren't nobles and so they aren't guaranteed to be as pure of heart as them (nobles to become such need to touch the Blue Rose Scepter, that reveals if they really are good or not) so the idea that one of them would kill in cold blood an hermit woman is at least notionally possible but highly, highly unlikely. What reason would they, defenders and protectors of the people of Aldis, entrusted and paid by the Crown to take care of whatever problem ails its people, to murder a woman just hanging out in the woods on her own?

The idea of rooting out a traitor or bad apple from the Finest isn't without merit but frankly I have already put more thought into this character concept than it deserves to.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 10:58

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Are kickstarter comments deleted after a while? I can't find the first comments Nuns with Guns relayed here by pressing ctrl+f and searching for the words used there. The first comments from that guy I can find is the one going "Diversity and inclusion and power dynamics in play already".

# ? Jul 4, 2016 11:06

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

paradoxGentleman posted:

The Sovereign's Finest aren't nobles and so they aren't guaranteed to be as pure of heart as them (nobles to become such need to touch the Blue Rose Scepter, that reveals if they really are good or not) so the idea that one of them would kill in cold blood an hermit woman is at least notionally possible but highly, highly unlikely. What reason would they, defenders and protectors of the people of Aldis, entrusted and paid by the Crown to take care of whatever problem ails its people, to murder a woman just hanging out in the woods on her own?

Beyond simple factual misrepresentation, i.e. Aldis is a fascist dystopia where citizens are mindraped into compliance with their Social Justice Cervid overlords, for some reason Blue Rose seems to trigger a need to grimdark things up to 11 in even the most otherwise reasonable and level-headed of people. Even folks who think the whole "homofascist venisonocracy" thing is overblown bullshit will seem gripped by some compulsion to take a game that unabashedly wears its heart and genre inspirations on its sleeve and go y'know what this needs, way more of everything actually being secretly bad and evil and corrupt and instead of anything that's actually presented in the book why don't we play amoral mercenaries that want to overthrow Aldis because gently caress you, you're not my real magic deer dad. Something about it just inspires contrarianism in people.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 11:52

Saguaro PI: Mar 11, 2013; Totally legit tree

Should've renamed the owl to something like Anita-Was-Right or Trump-is-a-Beta-Cuck.

Edit: This is a good filter, not even going to edit this.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 12:54

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Kai Tave posted:

Something about it just inspires contrarianism in people.

Because a lot of RPG nerds are immature childish man-babies who think grimdark = adult.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 13:24

LongDarkNight: Oct 25, 2010; It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.; Oven Wrangler

Halloween Jack posted:

Blue Rose has talking horses, doesn't it? The bird tells you when they're coming.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 13:35

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

paradoxGentleman posted:

Are kickstarter comments deleted after a while? I can't find the first comments Nuns with Guns relayed here by pressing ctrl+f and searching for the words used there. The first comments from that guy I can find is the one going "Diversity and inclusion and power dynamics in play already".

Did you check for a "load more" thing?

# ? Jul 4, 2016 13:39

Kibner: Oct 21, 2008; Acguy Supremacy

Zereth posted:

Did you check for a "load more" thing?

Some sites don't even have that button anymore but instead load more as you scroll down.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 13:55

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Nuns with Guns posted:

Sooo, thoughts? If someone pays $200.00 to lay a massive poo poo in your kickstarted product, do you allow it in?

No. I tell them what I would need to change/edit and if they hate the changes I want to make, I either work out a mutually acceptable version or I give them their money back. Doing what they did (assuming that they didn't notify him of the edits beforehand) is basically ripping off a backer, and is wrong, even if the backer is a bit of a turd.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:30

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

Slimnoid posted:

Because a lot of RPG nerds are immature childish man-babies who think grimdark = adult.

Like the minds behind Fallout: Equestria.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:36

General Ironicus: Aug 21, 2008; Something about this feels kinda hinky

ENnie nominations are up. Congratulations to Ryuutama, Urban Shadows, and Feng Shui 2

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:39

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

General Ironicus posted:

ENnie nominations are up. Congratulations to Ryuutama, Urban Shadows, and Feng Shui 2

These are surprisingly not completely unsalvageable garbage for the Ennies.

(They're still mostly garbage, though.)

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 4, 2016

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:43

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Kai Tave posted:

This actually reminds me of the time that a few RPGsite posters scraped up some money to buy a banner ad for the RPGsite on RPGnet as part of their longstanding war with Eastasia. I don't think I'm breaking any sort of mod discretion bylaws by saying that Shannon Applecine's response to that was, more or less, "lol okay, thanks for the money guys." I mean RPGnet ran the banner ad, you get what you pay for, but there's something singularly self-defeating about deciding that the best way to really show somebody what-for is to give them your money.

The thing you have to understand about Tarnowski and guys like him is that he's a narcissist. Seeing his own hideous reflection in the world around him is what's most important to him, so that banner ad was a huge psychological coup for him despite the fact that it not only failed to hurt his imagined enemies, it actually funded them.

Normally I don't believe in psychoanalyzing people from afar, but when someone insists on just splattering their id onto the Internet by the bucketful, it's hard not to.

Kai Tave posted:

Beyond simple factual misrepresentation, i.e. Aldis is a fascist dystopia where citizens are mindraped into compliance with their Social Justice Cervid overlords, for some reason Blue Rose seems to trigger a need to grimdark things up to 11 in even the most otherwise reasonable and level-headed of people. Even folks who think the whole "homofascist venisonocracy" thing is overblown bullshit will seem gripped by some compulsion to take a game that unabashedly wears its heart and genre inspirations on its sleeve and go y'know what this needs, way more of everything actually being secretly bad and evil and corrupt and instead of anything that's actually presented in the book why don't we play amoral mercenaries that want to overthrow Aldis because gently caress you, you're not my real magic deer dad. Something about it just inspires contrarianism in people.

I don't see any connection between the two, but I remember Rogue Trader being the same way. "I need to be able to run Firefly with this! There aren't enough sci-fi games where you play a ragtag gang of space truckers already!" Oh, and the people who just have to play a male paladin in Reign, despite the fact that the concept of a D&D Paladin is Not A Thing in that setting.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jul 4, 2016

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:44

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

General Ironicus posted:

ENnie nominations are up. Congratulations to Ryuutama, Urban Shadows, and Feng Shui 2

Wow, there's surprisingly few D&D/Pathfinder products this year. Other games will actually have a chance to win stuff!

e: Oh, wait, there's a WotC product in the "Game of the Year" category. Never mind.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:47

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Blue Medusa getting nominated is also super-blah.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:49

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Lemon-Lime posted:

These are surprisingly not completely unsalvageable garbage for the Ennies.

(They're still mostly garbage, though.)

Less than half of these are for Paizo! Hell, some categories don't even have a Pathfinder product nominated at all! What the gently caress happened?!

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:54

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Halloween Jack posted:

Less than half of these are for Paizo! Hell, some categories don't even have a Pathfinder product nominated at all! What the gently caress happened?!

Noted serial harasser and humanoid shitstain Zak S has a game nominated in five categories, though.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 15:59

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

You know, it'd be nice if the Ennies would at least provide a reason why all these books were nominated. Like, two or three sentences is fine. Is it because of some cool new mechanics? Interesting new setting? Great usability in presentation?

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:03

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

moths posted:

We don't know that this isn't a reworked version. I imagine an original original that was much more full of direct references like the stupid owl name.

All we have to go on is this rear end in a top hat's calculated pity-seeking version of events, and even that is as subtle as a brick.

They guy claims the edited version went up without any attempt to contact him

paradoxGentleman posted:

Are kickstarter comments deleted after a while? I can't find the first comments Nuns with Guns relayed here by pressing ctrl+f and searching for the words used there. The first comments from that guy I can find is the one going "Diversity and inclusion and power dynamics in play already".

They might've been deleted by the project heads for being deliberate poo poo-stirring. He's still going at it in the comments along the same lines of "I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GAME FOR DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES! CENSORSHIP!!!" if you want any idea of what's going on

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jul 4, 2016

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:06

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Evil Mastermind posted:

You know, it'd be nice if the Ennies would at least provide a reason why all these books were nominated. Like, two or three sentences is fine. Is it because of some cool new mechanics? Interesting new setting? Great usability in presentation?

"Free copies sent to the panel of judges?"

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:12

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Zereth posted:

Did you check for a "load more" thing?

I went as far back as March 22nd, I don't think that's the problem. He probably deleted them to try and sound more innocent.

Nuns with Guns posted:

They guy claims the edited version went up without any attempt to contact him

They might've been deleted by the project heads for being deliberate poo poo-stirring. He's still going at it in the comments along the same lines of "I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GAME FOR DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES! CENSORSHIP!!!" if you want any idea of what's going on

I actually did check it out, and began typing out a couple of answers before deciding it was not worth it.

paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 4, 2016

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:20

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Halloween Jack posted:

"Free copies sent to the panel of judges?"

This is basically it, yes. If you want 'serious' consideration for the ENnies you basically have to give away hundreds of dollars of product to the judges.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:35

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

I remember Fred Hicks saying a while back how he had to send a bunch of hardcopies to an Ennies judge overseas (because apparently you can't just send judges PDFs for some stupid reason), had to eat the shipping costs, and then the guy dropped out of judging and got to keep the books.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:39

inklesspen: Oct 17, 2007; Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.; Buglord

paradoxGentleman posted:

Are kickstarter comments deleted after a while? I can't find the first comments Nuns with Guns relayed here by pressing ctrl+f and searching for the words used there. The first comments from that guy I can find is the one going "Diversity and inclusion and power dynamics in play already".

Some of this person's comments were left on a backer-only update instead of the main comment stream.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:46

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Evil Mastermind posted:

I remember Fred Hicks saying a while back how he had to send a bunch of hardcopies to an Ennies judge overseas (because apparently you can't just send judges PDFs for some stupid reason), had to eat the shipping costs, and then the guy dropped out of judging and got to keep the books.

... Several hardcopies of one product, to one judge?

# ? Jul 4, 2016 16:54

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Zereth posted:

... Several hardcopies of one product, to one judge?

ENnies judges is basically a scam.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 17:02

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# ? May 9, 2024 17:52

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

A fairly obvious one since they shouldn't need more than one copy to judge it.

# ? Jul 4, 2016 17:02

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