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Moat Cailin is the only castle you need to garrison to defend the North against land attacks from any of the other kingdoms and Roose wasn't a literal idiot. It's more than fair to assume it had a Bolton garrison.hitchensgoespop posted:She may die in the books, maybe not, i doubt GRRM even really knows if he hasnt written/thought that far ahead. I would love to read the skeleton plot that he gave to the show writers to "fess up" the end of the series, i guarantee that outside of danys and jons "arcs" everything else was vague as poo poo and most of it he was making up on the spot. It must be really bare bones, given that they killed off Stannis before taking Winterfell, when he's going to hold it until the Wall falls at least. Narmi posted:Maybe they have plans for Ellaria, she did kill Tyrion's niece and he's now Dany's right-hand man. I have no idea what their plans for Ellaria are. I'm not even sure what her character is supposed to be. She's a complete sociopath, but she doesn't come off as someone you're supposed to hate, like Ramsay or Euron. Is she meant to be a villain or Oberyn's successor? Is she the actual for real Queen of Dorne, no matter how little sense that makes?
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Jul 4, 2016 23:28
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Lovechop posted:the point of dany's plot in mereen was for her to realise she isn't a queen, or a leader or whatever - she is a conqueror I think that was for the readers/audience to realise, I don't think Dany gets it at all. Her first instinct on getting back to Mereen was genocide and but for Tyrion she'd be at that. Its funny that in the last few posts 2 people had different ideas about how Littlefinger could travel hundreds of miles north without anyone knowing and if they had spent 2 minutes showing one of them instead of spending that time on Tyrion having terrible conversations with grey worm and Missandei it would be a million times easier to say oh whatever to extraordinarily fortuitous timing. I dunno what to make or Ellaria and the sand snakes, I guess they figured Doran had too many plots in the books and if it ends on siding with Dany gently caress it take the short road. In the books a bunch of bastards and the dead brother's ex taking over with no banner lords saying gently caress these people would be unlikely. Goofballs fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 23:30
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Cersei's most pressing problem in the next season is going to be the fact that the Tyrell's have been keeping Kings Landing fed since before Joffrey died. The Iron Bank certainly won't loan her any money so right now there's literally no food going into the city and she just blew up all the people helping the poor to survive.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:32
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No one knowing about the Vale army or the Slavers Navy moving about are the only logistics problem I'm legit upset about. Tywin, Robb, Renly, and Stannis were aware of each other's forces and even prospective allies, routes, plans. John Snow, Ramsey, and Tyrion this season apparently have no one do any scouting or even looking toward the horizon now and then. I really can't agree the show is just as good as it used to be. These little details and their reflection in the writing and character motivation add up to give the whole thing more weight. Lots of stuff is happening and it's fun to watch but it doesn't "add up" the way it used to. It's still very enjoyable TV but if you think it's on the same level I think we enjoy things differently.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:41
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I'm pretty sure Marg knew that Cersei vs the Faith was always going to end in violence, but obviously didn't realize it would be so swift and terrible. She probably expected Cersei come to the trial, and when she was pronouced Guilty, she'd have her personal forces drive off the Sparrows and there would be blood in the streets. Marg would probably have some plan to take advantage of it, keeping Tyrell forces out of the fray until both sides were to weak to contest her. Getting rid of Olenna would mean that Cersei wouldn't be able to target her. I could accept that Littlefinger just paid off the men at Moat Catlin. I'd also like to point out I constantly get Moat Catlin and Deepwood Motte confused.
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Jul 5, 2016 00:00
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Cailin has been sacked three or four times in the last year, I'd be shocked if it even had doors at this point.
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Jul 5, 2016 00:04
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Since they don't mind swamps, why don't the Reeds fix and permanently occupy Moat Cailin?
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Jul 5, 2016 00:31
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Lycus posted:Since they don't mind swamps, why don't the Reeds fix and permanently occupy Moat Cailin? They did, they are hiding and poisoning everyone who tries to hold it that isn't rob, that's kind of the same thing?
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Jul 5, 2016 00:41
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Yeah in the books by the time the Boltons take Moat Cailin there are only like 6 Ironborn left alive, and most of them are injured and ill from poison. Reed and his frog eaters seem to be pretty good ambushers but I don't think they'd be very good in a static fight.
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Jul 5, 2016 00:49
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Next season is gonna open with Tyrion saying to Varys "boy you got here fast" and then Varys does a Jim face at the camera
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Jul 5, 2016 01:44
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Goofballs posted:I think that was for the readers/audience to realise, I don't think Dany gets it at all. Her first instinct on getting back to Mereen was genocide and but for Tyrion she'd be at that. I genuinely think Gurm hasn't a clue what Dany is supposed to be. He can't even decide if her fire immunity is a one time thing except for when it isn't. She's just like Doran and Darkstar at this point, he desperately wants her to be one thing but none of his writing supports it. My complete conjecture is that he was planning to originally write her as a good ruler and then after the time jump he was going to bring up the problems she'd had ruling like the Harpy's etc, but we'd be approaching it from 'knowing' she had been a good ruler, instead we got to see her make dumb bad decisions the entire loving time and nobody thinks she's anything other than an idiot. Love Crime fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 01:48
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Hey, when do we get to meet Tormund's daughters that Jon is prettier than? Did they survive Hardhome? There's no way he doesn't push one on Jon.
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Jul 5, 2016 01:57
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Valonqar could refer to sister or brother.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:00
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I'm sure Littlefinger could have pulled off some kind of lie that got him and his force through Moat Cailin. As far as Ramsay knows Littlefinger is an ally. He gives him Sansa.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:08
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Love Crime posted:I genuinely think Gurm hasn't a clue what Dany is supposed to be. He can't even decide if her fire immunity is a one time thing except for when it isn't.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:18
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Linguica posted:Uh, when else in the books has she been immune to fire? When she jumps into the pit in Meereen she shows at the very least a resistance to Drogon's smoldering body. Gurm was also still a writer for S1 of the show which showed her having it numerous times. To specify now that I'm reading it, it says as more damage Drogon was taking it was causing his body to be so hot none of the others could go near him, yet Dany is able to actually mount him and only feels heat. Love Crime fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 02:51
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Goofballs posted:You can be as defensive as you want but it doesn't make the rest of us wrong when we point out things that don't make sense or are seriously stupid. Littlefinger, as Ramsay's known ally, somehow gets his army through and they arrive on time. We know this because we see them arrive on time, and Ramsay expects nothing. How did Littlefinger do it? Not really relevant, he's good at deception. I thought you guys hated irrelevant plotlines? It's not good plotting but it's far from the disgusting garbage you nerds make out to be. Especially since Moat Cailin and entering the north in general is not given nearly as much focus in the show as in the books. vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 02:59
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Ginette Reno posted:I'm sure Littlefinger could have pulled off some kind of lie that got him and his force through Moat Cailin. As far as Ramsay knows Littlefinger is an ally. He gives him Sansa. He could just say he's coming to aid against traitor snow. He got through before with sansa and it was garrisoned then,since Brianne and pod had to go around
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Jul 5, 2016 03:04
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mastershakeman posted:He could just say he's coming to aid against traitor snow. He got through before with sansa and it was garrisoned then,since Brianne and pod had to go around Or perhaps he went around. We know he could have done this, since Brienne and Pod went around.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:06
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vintagepurple posted:Or perhaps he went around. We know he could have done this, since Brienne and Pod went around. Well no, not with that force
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Jul 5, 2016 03:34
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vintagepurple posted:Littlefinger, as Ramsay's known ally, somehow gets his army through and they arrive on time. I think going through the fort that holds the border with you and a few friends is different than going through with an army.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:34
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I ran into the guy at the local comic store that didn't understand the Jon baby thing and he says "Oh hey you know all the GoT mysteries, who was the Harpy?" and I said "It doesn't matter, they were a group of people who had masks and knives and operated in small groups. Who was their leader isn't important" and he said "no, i mena, who is the Harpy, as they were called Sons of the Harpy, so there has to be a Harpy." "The Harpy was the symbol of Old Ghis, the empire that Slavers bay was built upon, so they took the name." He was still confused, because he literally thought they were Sons of the Harpy, as in children born of someone who was called the Harpy. Is there some kind of learning disability that prevents people from understanding metaphor and symbolism?
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Jul 5, 2016 03:46
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It's hard for me to look at it through virgin eyes cause i've read a good chunk of the books and keep up with spoilers. But they hammer the gently caress out of you with flashbacks for Lyana a million times before the episode starts.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:52
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mastershakeman posted:Well no, not with that force What part of the show convinces you of that? We know mounted forces can move swiftly and sneakily from Blackwater and Stannis at the Wall. Wait wait is season 2 also dumb garbage? Besides, why do you guys keep insisting that Littlefinger couldn't do the thing when the show clearly states that he could, in fact, do it?
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Jul 5, 2016 04:18
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twistedmentat posted:Is there some kind of learning disability that prevents people from understanding metaphor and symbolism? There are several, dont be a douche.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:24
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vintagepurple posted:What part of the show convinces you of that? We know mounted forces can move swiftly and sneakily from Blackwater and Stannis at the Wall. It's explained like thirty times that most catelyn can stop an army with ease and that it can't be bypassed by any force, but can be bypassed by a handful of people
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Jul 5, 2016 05:12
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Love Crime posted:When she jumps into the pit in Meereen she shows at the very least a resistance to Drogon's smoldering body. Gurm was also still a writer for S1 of the show which showed her having it numerous times. In the book she gets burned after jumping on Drogon. This is right before she has diarrhea.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:15
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Sammus posted:In the book she gets burned after jumping on Drogon. This is right before she has diarrhea. Yeah and it was all superficial stuff despite her getting bathed in dragonfire that destroyed her hair and clothes which is why I said 'at least resistance'.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:37
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TommyGun85 posted:There are several, dont be a douche. No, it was an honest question. And as a sufferer of a variety of learning disabilities I can understand that it can be very difficult for people to deal with something who cannot understand why you've having serious trouble with something basic.
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Jul 5, 2016 06:05
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twistedmentat posted:Is there some kind of learning disability that prevents people from understanding metaphor and symbolism? So, it stands to reason that if there is a disorder of finding too many patterns, there should also exist some sort of pathological cluelessness. e: Littlefinger probably took Moat Cailin on his way north, don't be idiots. He probably told the garrison he was going North to aid Ramsay and killed them after they opened the gates. Would explain also the lack of messages from that part. And the show didn't show it for the simple reason that we're not watching Littlefinger's story. We're watching Sansa's, and 'how Moat Cailin was taken' is absolutely irrelevant to it. Despite some nerds' apparent need for closure. meristem fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 06:18
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Show Watchers have no reason to assume that the Vale Knights went South to North through Moat Cailin.
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Jul 5, 2016 06:52
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quote:Marge's plot is the worst offender, you could argue it was all misdirection but seriously what's the point of wasting so much time on her ambitions and incarceration if she ultimately just goes up in a blaze and her most important contribution to the plot was unwittingly getting Cersei to arm the faith. One of the main complaints book readers in this thread have about the show is that a lot of the detail is lost, a lot of the character motivations and the small things around the plot disappear, and we're just left with more mechanical plotting. This is a complaint made even when the things that are excised didn't go anywhere in the books. Well, Margaery is an example of the show doing what the books do, giving more motivation to a character and making her more well-rounded, perhaps at the expense of a slimmer narrative. So why complain about it? She is important because she is Cersei's enemy. She and her family are making moves against the Lannisters for many seasons. Plus she and her family work as the only noble family in King's Landing. She's a good foil for Cersei in that she is an ambitious, manipulative person who is nonetheless not evil and lovely. The payoff of all her plotting is that Cersei blows her up. It's important that when Cersei blows up the Sept, she isn't just blowing up a place where some people she doesn't like currently reside. Instead, we know that Margaery is actively working on turning this situation to her advantage, siding with the Sparrow, having a converted and devoted King, and Cersei has to go to trial. She is blowing up a bunch of people who are a very real danger to her, not just the Sparrow. It's also a good contrast to Margaery in that she is trying to work 'within' the system, Cersei just barbarically blows it all up.
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Jul 5, 2016 07:48
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meristem posted:
Somehow I find this explanation the most ridiculous one. It's like writing a story about Russia invading the US. How did Russia get its forces into the US? Well, they camped out in Mexico and when there was a riot in Detroit they showed up at the US border and said they were here to help. The border garrison let them in without asking the higher ups, cause Russia was there to HELP. Doesn't this make a lot of sense?
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Jul 5, 2016 08:12
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twistedmentat posted:I ran into the guy at the local comic store that didn't understand the Jon baby thing and he says "Oh hey you know all the GoT mysteries, who was the Harpy?" and I said "It doesn't matter, they were a group of people who had masks and knives and operated in small groups. Who was their leader isn't important" and he said "no, i mena, who is the Harpy, as they were called Sons of the Harpy, so there has to be a Harpy." "The Harpy was the symbol of Old Ghis, the empire that Slavers bay was built upon, so they took the name." He was still confused, because he literally thought they were Sons of the Harpy, as in children born of someone who was called the Harpy. Doesn't the show have a harpy in the opening credits (when it pans around Mereen) and there was a big thing about knocking the harpy statue off the pyramid?
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Jul 5, 2016 08:16
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The book characters seemed equally obsessed with finding The Harpy too, to be honest.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:22
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waitwhatno posted:The border garrison let them in without asking the higher ups... Lol. This thread is so loving pathetic.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:24
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Peanut President posted:Doesn't the show have a harpy in the opening credits (when it pans around Mereen) and there was a big thing about knocking the harpy statue off the pyramid? There was but it was never stated that the statue was a harpy or where their names come from and I don't reasonably expect the average viewer to be able to recognize obscure Roman mythological creatures. Also the opening credits never took that statue down even after it was destroyed so another thing in somebody's favor.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:30
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Next GoT panel, I expect a goony goon to ask about Moat Cailin. We must get to the bottom of this Moat Cailin mystery.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:40
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Lycus posted:Next GoT panel, I expect a goony goon to ask about Moat Cailin. We must get to the bottom of this Moat Cailin mystery. Hire a real freaking writer for your show, you cheap assholes.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:46
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waitwhatno posted:Doesn't this make a lot of sense? I find it funny that all the arguments about how Littlefinger couldn't get through Moat Cailin start apparently from 'it had never been taken'. Because that's exactly the kind of an absolute statement that just begs for 'until it was'. By bribery or cheating, it would be. Even so, once again, the matter is simply irrelevant. It brings absolutely nothing to the drama.
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Jul 5, 2016 09:05
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