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But the euro is gonna run the EU into the ground anyway, so it's really just a choice of a managed descent vs. mad max fury road (towards brussels).
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Jul 4, 2016 10:28
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His Divine Shadow posted:But the euro is gonna run the EU into the ground anyway, so it's really just a choice of a managed descent vs. mad max fury road (towards brussels). Now I'm imagining war rigs and monstertrucks
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Jul 4, 2016 10:33
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double nine posted:the Wetstraat Wetstraat / Rue de Loi. Unless you are one of those N-VA fascists.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:51
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Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader after 'achieving political ambition' of Brexit Amazing. The biggest public faces of the Brexit are like ''well that was fine, good luck with the mess old chaps!''
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Jul 4, 2016 11:05
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Cowards.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:21
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Corbyn and Gove are literally the last men standing from the referendum and it's only been little over a week. Amazing.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:22
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More like professional trolls.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:22
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Charlie Mopps posted:Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader after 'achieving political ambition' of Brexit Right out of the Varoufakis playbook
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Jul 4, 2016 11:52
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What did you expect Farage to do now? He got the referendum he wanted with his preferred result. He isn't part of the British government, never mind parliament and is unable to influence policy going forward. For interviews with pithy one liners you don't have to be active in a party.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:11
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Once Article 50 is invoked, won't UKIP have no raison d'etre anyway? It would make sense for the party to dissolve or be absorbed by the Tories at that point, so as hilarious as it might be I don't think Farage quitting is a big stretch from that.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:11
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YF-23 posted:Once Article 50 is invoked, won't UKIP have no raison d'etre anyway? It would make sense for the party to dissolve or be absorbed by the Tories at that point, so as hilarious as it might be I don't think Farage quitting is a big stretch from that. Quite the opposite, negotiating independence is like the golden ticket for an independence party. Almost no matter how the new PM handles it they will be able to capitalize on it in the next election. Either it capsizes, UKIP wins. Or more realistically, it's a compromise, UKIP wins. For the party, this is the best possible outcome. Not to mention secession talk dragging up old dirt.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:14
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Pluskut Tukker posted:A euro breakup would most likely result in a combination of the mother of all financial crises in the peripheral countries and the mother of all credit bubbles in the core. Also, my money is still for Brexit just not happening. Ether a new referendum or general elections followed by "oh but my mandate now is to remain" independently of the result, etc.etc.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:21
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That certainly seems like it but we still have the issue of the EU, or rather the EC and Commission, not playing ball with this chicken race nonsense.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:25
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Lagotto posted:Wetstraat / Rue de Loi. Unless you are one of those N-VA fascists. Sure, why not. Don't really care either way. It's a mouthful and a horrible
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Jul 4, 2016 12:40
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It's funny, at the same time Schulz is demanding the EU Commission to be turned into a real government and therefore removing power from the Council/nation governments, Schäuble is demanding the opposite. More power for national governments and less for the Commission.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:49
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One should do the exact opposite of whatever Schauble says
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Jul 4, 2016 12:51
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YF-23 posted:Once Article 50 is invoked, won't UKIP have no raison d'etre anyway? It would make sense for the party to dissolve or be absorbed by the Tories at that point, so as hilarious as it might be I don't think Farage quitting is a big stretch from that. Whether in the EU or out, there will still be foreigners for opportunistic fucks like Farage to scapegoat. I mean it'd make sense that a politician who spends his time railing about EU waste wouldn't claim a truckload of expenses from the EU, but that didn't stop him from taking what he could get. I mean despite the referendum vote we've not even begun negotiations to leave the EU yet and there's a minute chance that someone somewhere will put the breaks on this terrible decision. And that aside, UKIP seem on the verge of potentially massive breakthroughs in an awfully depressing number of constituencies across England & Wales in a General Election, especially if the new PM calls a snap election soon after they are in place. So in that sense it is a bit surprising. Besides, he's done this before. When it turns out there are no competent replacements because UKIP is a one man show they'll became him to take the job again. I mean, David Coburn MEP is currently rumoured to be considering a running for the leadership. And if you know anything about him, you'll know that's a hilarious idea. And there's Paul Nuttall, the working class racist from Liverpool.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:55
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Wheelchair man is right on that one.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:56
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The fact that both are arguing in the press means that this is getting at least some traction/debate internally. Question is which side is winning. IIRC Schaüble's interview/comment was first which makes me think he's on the defensive . We'll see though - in these things execution trumps intention so even if the right minds prevail it can still get horribly mismanaged/sabotaged.
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Jul 4, 2016 12:57
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Dawncloack posted:This sounds interes, what would be the process/mechanism? Thanks. In the EMU, there are countries which would have a weaker currency if they had their own, and ones which would have a stronger one. In Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain, any new currency that would be adopted would be weaker than the euro (the whole point being to make these countries more competitive through external devaluation rather than through suppressing wages). Since the adoption of a new currency would happen through the conversion of bank deposits into a new denomination, the rational thing to do for everyone with money in the bank would be take it out and send it abroad before the adoption and thus prevent their savings losing value. In other words, you'd get bank runs, capital controls, and a financial crisis. In the countries which would plausibly be left with a stronger currency, the opposite would happen; money would flow in, drive up asset prices, and most likely create bubbles like the one Spain had up until 2008 and which it still hasn't recovered from. Even stronger political systems tend to go nuts in bubble periods, and corruption increased everywhere in the countries which benefited most from the euro before the crisis. The only way to prevent all this would be to prepare a euro breakup in secret and spring it on everyone by surprise, but that would be both technically impossible, politically suicidial, as well as morally indefensible, since you'd be making a whole bunch of folks poorer without their consent. And so we muddle on instead.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:13
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Much as I suspected, thanks! That said Pluskut Tukker posted:be making a whole bunch of folks poorer without their consent. I asked about the Euro, not the EU. 
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Jul 4, 2016 13:24
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awesome-express posted:One should do the exact opposite of whatever Schauble says Generally yes, but broken clocks, you know? Anything that gives less power to the Commission is a good thing, whether that power is then given back to national governments or the European Parliament, it's all good.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:44
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It's astounding that these major changes don't require higher vote thresholds. The brexit vote falls within the margin of error of flipping a coin a bunch of times.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:56
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effectual posted:It's astounding that these major changes don't require higher vote thresholds. The brexit vote falls within the margin of error of flipping a coin a bunch of times. It's almost like the European political class is a bunch of irresponsible career politicians who don't actually give a poo poo.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:58
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Friendly Humour posted:It's almost like the European political class is a bunch of irresponsible career politicians who don't actually give a poo poo. It's almost like it's a bad idea to draw conclusions about the whole of Europe from what happened in the UK.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:02
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It's almost like it's a bad idea to draw conclusions about the whole of Europe from what happened in the UK. Nearly there!
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Jul 4, 2016 14:06
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Friendly Humour posted:It's almost like the European political class is a bunch of irresponsible career politicians who don't actually give a poo poo. So, the European political class is not much different from their colleagues from the rest of the world.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:03
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effectual posted:It's astounding that these major changes don't require higher vote thresholds. The brexit vote falls within the margin of error of flipping a coin a bunch of times. Entering the EU and ratifying its constitution should have had a higher vote threshold then too.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:19
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It's also not a poll but a real election/referendum, so any talk about margin of errors is dumb. The "real" outcome of the Brexit vote was not Leave 52% +/- 3%!
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Jul 4, 2016 15:27
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effectual posted:It's astounding that these major changes don't require higher vote thresholds. The brexit vote falls within the margin of error of flipping a coin a bunch of times. A referendum can't force parliament to do anything. In theory it's more like an opinion poll that parliament can consider in their decision-making process, that's why there is no strict requirements for various thresholds. The problem of course is that piglover69 promised to implement the referendum result no matter what, which is not how it's supposed to work. Basically: no human being can design a political system that another human being won't be able to drive off a cliff. The trick is to keep idiots as far away from political power as possible.
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Jul 4, 2016 15:51
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Seems like every time something happens in the EU it's a major crisis and never goes according to set policy.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:19
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It's almost like the whole thing is fragile, about to break down at the slightest moment.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:23
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Arglebargle III posted:Seems like every time something happens in the EU it's a major crisis and never goes according to set policy. Meh, it's mostly just media hype and most normal people already forgot about Brexit now that the media started cycling it out. The sky isn't falling and the EU keeps trucking on like it always has. e: hell yeah, page 88! Heil Hillary
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Jul 4, 2016 20:38
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So was Farrage a secret Putin lobbyist as I have heard implied and how long will he be a mep?
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Jul 4, 2016 22:05
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Torrannor posted:It's also not a poll but a real election/referendum, so any talk about margin of errors is dumb. The "real" outcome of the Brexit vote was not Leave 52% +/- 3%! The new thing these days is to toss out statistics terms you don't understand to pretend like you're smart.
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Jul 4, 2016 22:32
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Arglebargle III posted:Seems like every time something happens in the EU it's a major crisis and never goes according to set policy. Like waitwhatno says it's just hype, but he forgot to add Eurocrats and their political cronies indulge in it. They try to scare everyone into believing just about anything that goes against what they say: apocalypse!!1 Honestly, everything from restoring temporary border controls to a 5 kilometer strip to quitting the whole Union is painted, like you say, a horrid unrecoverable crisis (then the sky doesn't fall after all). I wouldn't even find EU so superbly distatesful, but all the threats, the bulling, the attempts to terrify the public into submission are, to me, almost as bad as their shady power grabbing deals, the lying, or forcing European tax payers to save private banks which gently caress up. edit: arrrgh, I got sort of pissed of just thinking about this. "No, we can't do this minor thing! It threatens EUROPEAN CORE VALUES!" or "No, we can't do this little thing, it threatens EUROPEAN UNITY!" are possibly the most over-used at least in my hoods. That's nothing concrete, those are just immaterial ideas. Also I had no idea the "poor" (or at least less well off) caused Brexit. Ligur fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 11:04
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In yet other news,quote:In the wake of the UK's Brexit vote and the decision to leave the European Union (EU), the Hungarian President, Janos Ader, has ordered a nationwide referendum on October 2.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:07
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Same day Austria votes again on its president.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:10
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Meanwhile in France, Valls just called a second 49.3 for the Labor Law. Things are gonna get ugly everywhere. https://twitter.com/LCP/status/750316746272223234
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Jul 5, 2016 15:00
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Grey line French labour reform bill - main points -The 35-hour week remains in place, but as an average. Firms can negotiate with local trade unions on more or fewer hours from week to week, up to a maximum of 46 hours -Firms are given greater freedom to reduce pay -The law eases conditions for laying off workers, strongly regulated in France. It is hoped companies will take on more people if they know they can shed jobs in case of a downturn -Employers given more leeway to negotiate holidays and special leave, such as maternity or for getting married. These are currently also heavily regulated "It is hoped companies will take on more people if they know they can shed jobs in case of a downturn" - This is obviously not going to harm anyone at all, no sir.
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Jul 5, 2016 15:17
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