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My biggest problem with The Evil Within was me constantly asking the question why they even had a health bar since most enemies in the game have a way to one hit kill Sebastian and most environmental traps are one hit kills too. It made the entire thing extremely stressful which I suppose is a good thing in a horror game but it felt like garbage to actually play. Then add the extreme lack of ammo on top of that and Ruvik's teleportation to right in front of you one hit kill bullshit in Chapter 9 and it really wasn't fun. Maybe I just need to "git gud" or whatever but I just find one hit kills on almost everything to be cheap instead of challenging.
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Jul 5, 2016 09:10
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Mr. Fortitude posted:My biggest problem with The Evil Within was me constantly asking the question why they even had a health bar since most enemies in the game have a way to one hit kill Sebastian and most environmental traps are one hit kills too. It made the entire thing extremely stressful which I suppose is a good thing in a horror game but it felt like garbage to actually play. Then add the extreme lack of ammo on top of that and Ruvik's teleportation to right in front of you one hit kill bullshit in Chapter 9 and it really wasn't fun. If you focus on health upgrades you'll survive longer. "Most enemies" sounds like exaggeration to someone like me who has played the game multiple times and loved it. The game does have a lot of instant death moments compared to most games but I found them pretty entertaining. The thing I like most is that you can get very creative with the weapons and environmental hazards to conserve your ammo.
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Jul 5, 2016 10:10
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Evil Within rocks but the quality drops off towards the end and I've never bothered finishing it.
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Jul 5, 2016 10:12
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I should try TEW again at some point since I heard they patched out 'running like poo poo' eventually
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Jul 5, 2016 10:27
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I feel that running and hiding is the essence of good horror and separates it from "game with horror elements." Problem is video games don't know how to communicate to the player, maybe even they can't because video games have a history of established rules behind them. If you give me a gun you're saying your obstacles can be destroyed and I'll keep trying until I eventually get frustrated and stop playing. So here you have this game that carries the weight of Resident Evil 4 on its shoulders, whether intentionally or not, and maybe the development was hindered by two sides arguing "No, this should be RE4! No, this should be American long box Resident Evil!" Mikami's actual answer to RE4 is Shadows of the Damned. e: Man, Shadows even has an invincible one-shot-kill enemy that chases you but it's scripted so it's not like you're getting caught with your pants down. al-azad fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 12:28
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TEW starts from a tense survival shooter with limited resources and then later on you're taking cover fighting zombies with guns and gunning down hoards of them with mounted turrets
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Jul 5, 2016 12:34
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Xenomrph posted:
But it didn't give me the one thing I needed to survive. A decent story. 
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Jul 5, 2016 12:59
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CharlestonJew posted:TEW starts from a tense survival shooter with limited resources and then later on you're taking cover fighting zombies with guns and gunning down hoards of them with mounted turrets Yeah that was the weird part of the game, I found - it begins with you sneaking around a village, using stealth takedowns because alerting all your foes means death. Then they completely forgo this for big action scenes, almost never giving you the chance to use stealth ever again. It's like the game couldn't decide what it was supposed to be.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:47
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treat posted:What is it exactly that makes TEW such a bad game? I see people complaining about it all the time but I have never heard any good reasons. The game has a lot of serious tone issues from what I've seen.
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Jul 5, 2016 14:11
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The Cat Lady is an extremely memorable and unique game. If you haven't played it, it is absolutely worth the price it's going for these days. It's unlike any other game I've played in terms of experience. Stellar stuff and doesn't outstay its welcome. Anyone play the original version of the precursor: Downfall? Worth playing or should I just head for the remake?
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Jul 5, 2016 14:26
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Morpheus posted:Yeah that was the weird part of the game, I found - it begins with you sneaking around a village, using stealth takedowns because alerting all your foes means death. Then they completely forgo this for big action scenes, almost never giving you the chance to use stealth ever again. It's like the game couldn't decide what it was supposed to be. Yeah they went full Resident Evil 4 in parts with a castle with hanging cage snipers and other mad poo poo but it felt like they forgot Resident Evil 4 let you carry more than 3 bullets at a time. Why has no game ever come close to being as fun as Resi 4? I've tried to explain this to a pal who has only played 5 minutes of 4 but beat 5. Four is just more fun. I think new game + and all the mad weapon upgrades and gimmick runs might have something to do with it, but I can't articulate it properly. Shadows of the Damned came close, KINDA. It had a merchant and all that, but the guns were just straight upgrades and couldn't be sold or mixed or matched. I really disliked the final upgrade for the machinegun and wanted to downgrade it, but no such luck.
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Jul 5, 2016 14:38
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Grapplejack posted:The game has a lot of serious tone issues from what I've seen. Not so much tone, it maintains the same gritty atmosphere throughout even as its setting changes radically from chapter to chapter. And that's the main thing - the game is crazy unfocused. It goes from RE4-esque mob battles to big boss fights to stealth to chase sequences without making any allowances in its mechanics for all these different events, and the game's basic loadout (RE6's movement, limited ammo, limited stealth options) is really not suited for everything TEW throws at you. You've got one square peg and at first you have a bunch of square holes but then you start getting circles and triangles and there's a loving rhombus in there and it becomes frustrating fast. It's especially bad in the latter chapters, where you get hosed down with numerous enemies similar to the Island portion of RE4, but you've still got the same piddly amount of ammo as you did when you were stealthing around in the earlier chapters. And these enemies need to be killed - I'm pretty sure stealth attacks straight-up stop working after a certain point, with no warning given (which is another thing, it's really bad at communicating information to the player). Also, it's not scary. Like, at all. Always a downside for something that's nominally horror. I kind of admire it just for the range of concepts it trots out and that perfect RE4 head-splatter sound effect, but it was definitely one of those titles that kind of resists your attempts to have any fun with it. edit: and everyone already said all this multiple times over. Whoops!
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Jul 5, 2016 14:41
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Danknificent posted:But it didn't give me the one thing I needed to survive. I didn't have a problem with the story, personally. If anything I felt the game overstayed its welcome by the end, but that was due to the gameplay getting stale rather than the story writing itself into a corner or anything. I wasn't a big fan of the cliffhanger ending that will likely never get resolved, though.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:10
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Danknificent posted:But it didn't give me the one thing I needed to survive.  Didn't finish the game because I wasn't invested.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:21
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Alien: Isolation's story is Alien if it had worse pacing and a bunch of unnecessary bulges and unsightly bloating.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:30
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The Evil Within has a lot of really good stuff in it. You get a large and incredibly varied toolset for defending yourself, you get into a lot of really well-conceived fights and you go through a pretty good amount of interesting environments in the back half of the game. My biggest problem with the game is that it barely ever conveys how you're supposed to approach any given situation, and that's a big problem for a game that can go from stealth, to survival horror, to action horror to Uncharted-style setpiece in an instant. There were a lot of times where I put myself into an unwinnable situation because I wasted ammo on something I was supposed to run away from or didn't take time to set up traps in a wide-open combat arena before accidentally hitting the trigger for enemies to spawn in. It's game where you have to stumble into the right way to do something through deaths and trial-and-error. And that's really bad in my opinion, because there's nothing that takes me out of a horror game quite like being frustrated and confused. It's a shame, because the building blocks for an A++ game are all there, they're just stacked together in a way that isn't very satisfying to go through. (Also it runs like total butt on consoles, especially with the letterbox effect turned off.  )
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Jul 5, 2016 16:51
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WaltherFeng posted:If you focus on health upgrades you'll survive longer. "Most enemies" sounds like exaggeration to someone like me who has played the game multiple times and loved it. The game does have a lot of instant death moments compared to most games but I found them pretty entertaining. The problem is, ammo and weapon upgrades, especially the Agony Crossbow is more important than Health upgrades because you do start off carrying extremely little ammo and the final upgrade for the normal bolts which turns them into flaming bolts for the crossbow turns Sebastian into the one who can one hit kill everything for a change. I dunno. Maybe I wasn't in the right frame of mind when I played it, but it was just stressful to play through but not in the terrifying way, more an incredibly frustrated on how I'm facing off against certain annoying enemy types again or running through a scripted sequence of traps where one mistake equals death type of stress.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:15
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In terms of plot TEW is just a mess, imo. The thing is that a lot of stuff was either never explained or just handwaved away as "it's a spooky thing, shoot it". That is effective in games where the monsters are hidden or rare, but TEW is one step above "zombie wave shooter" so I kind of found it hard to care. On top of that the overall plot and location jumped around a ton, including some literal teleportations, and it was extremely hard to follow. I remember someone asking me what the game was about when I was halfway through it and I had absolutely no response because I couldn't follow it. I don't know, maybe I was missing some super subtle hints or something but it was kind of silly
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Jul 5, 2016 17:19
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DreamShipWrecked posted:In terms of plot TEW is just a mess, imo. The thing is that a lot of stuff was either never explained or just handwaved away as "it's a spooky thing, shoot it". That is effective in games where the monsters are hidden or rare, but TEW is one step above "zombie wave shooter" so I kind of found it hard to care. On top of that the overall plot and location jumped around a ton, including some literal teleportations, and it was extremely hard to follow. I remember someone asking me what the game was about when I was halfway through it and I had absolutely no response because I couldn't follow it. TEW's plot is super straightforward, it's just told badly. Crazy kid goes mad scientist and does experiments with people's brains, gets approached by merely morally ambiguous scientist to further his research, develops machine that hooks up people's brains into a shared dream-state where reality and minds can be altered at will. Morally ambiguous scientist hooks up with vague evil organization to use machine for dastardly ends, betray crazy kid mad scientist, hooks up brain into machine. Crazy kid mad scientist brain takes over the dream-state and starts wrecking poo poo within the dream in an attempt to escape by hijacking the body of a muttery autistic boy. Detective, detective's partner, and detective's other partner who is actually a mole investigate vague evil organization, get kidnapped and hooked up to machine, fight the evil dream from within, and (ending spoilers if anyone cares) fail in every possible way. Detective is still stuck in machine and crazy kid mad scientist escapes in body of muttery autistic boy, the end. The problem is there's no closure and the DLC just raises even more questions, like the fact that the vague evil organization has at some point recruited the detective's supposedly-dead wife into their ranks.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:41
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Xenomrph posted:I didn't have a problem with the story, personally. If anything I felt the game overstayed its welcome by the end, but that was due to the gameplay getting stale rather than the story writing itself into a corner or anything. Don't get me wrong, as an Alien franchise lifer, it's a 10/10 GOTY for me regardless, and I loved every minute of it (except the five or so odd minutes of unskippable plot stuff) Decent writing would've taken it to the next level, but I'd still play the cuss out of a sequel. I don't even like Sneak'em'up style horror games, and I still loved Alien Isolation.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:15
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Danknificent posted:Don't get me wrong, as an Alien franchise lifer, it's a 10/10 GOTY for me regardless, and I loved every minute of it (except the five or so odd minutes of unskippable plot stuff) Whatever problems it may have had in terms of pacing and story, the core gameplay and art direction in A:I was so good.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:29
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Oxxidation posted:TEW's plot is super straightforward, [complicated batshit stuff I've never heard of.]
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Jul 5, 2016 18:59
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Oxxidation posted:TEW's plot is super straightforward, it's just told badly. Crazy kid goes mad scientist and does experiments with people's brains, gets approached by merely morally ambiguous scientist to further his research, develops machine that hooks up people's brains into a shared dream-state where reality and minds can be altered at will. Morally ambiguous scientist hooks up with vague evil organization to use machine for dastardly ends, betray crazy kid mad scientist, hooks up brain into machine. Crazy kid mad scientist brain takes over the dream-state and starts wrecking poo poo within the dream in an attempt to escape by hijacking the body of a muttery autistic boy. Detective, detective's partner, and detective's other partner who is actually a mole investigate vague evil organization, get kidnapped and hooked up to machine, fight the evil dream from within, and (ending spoilers if anyone cares) fail in every possible way. Detective is still stuck in machine and crazy kid mad scientist escapes in body of muttery autistic boy, the end. ok as someone who has never played TEW and knows straightforward stories quite well let me tell you that this is not at all straightforward and sounds like a kojima breeding ground i mean really all we need is a few shots of one of the scientists without pants and we've got a metal gear solid interlude
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Jul 5, 2016 19:17
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VoidBurger posted:Okay, but when did you learn all this poo poo though? I played fuckin 13 hours of The Evil Within and the plot got as far as "poo poo blew up in weird ways. There's zombies. A mental patient is whimpering and running away a lot. Go after him." At 13 hours in, I'd better know more than that poo poo. Unforgivable story pacing, could not get invested/interested in that junk. Which is what I mean when I say it's told badly. Half the plot is squirrelled away in text files or incidental details while the cutscenes focus on the umpteenth time Ruvik makes a spooky face. And even then, some stuff is still left unexplained. The hospital you go to when you save is probably a psychic haven constructed by Nurse Gutierrez and the mad journalist to give some refuge to especially strong-willed people trapped in the STEM, but that sure as hell isn't ever confirmed or denied.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:24
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heres the plot of TEW: It was all a dream the bad guy wins gently caress you buy the sequel it did have a few cool mystery moments tho, like the seemingly normal looking guy you can see in the windows of the mansion before you enter it. I don't think the game ever does anything to highlight that he's there or even explains why, just a random dude watching you trudge through this nightmare G-Man style
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Jul 5, 2016 19:51
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Oxxidation posted:Not so much tone, it maintains the same gritty atmosphere throughout even as its setting changes radically from chapter to chapter. And that's the main thing - the game is crazy unfocused. It goes from RE4-esque mob battles to big boss fights to stealth to chase sequences without making any allowances in its mechanics for all these different events, and the game's basic loadout (RE6's movement, limited ammo, limited stealth options) is really not suited for everything TEW throws at you. You've got one square peg and at first you have a bunch of square holes but then you start getting circles and triangles and there's a loving rhombus in there and it becomes frustrating fast. I think you hit the nail on the head. I spent a lot of time trying hard to get into it but the game just rebuffs you with its incoherent, poorly explained story and schizo gameplay. Which is a shame, because apart from all that it still somehow verges on being a lot of goofy fun when it slows down enough to let you play it how you want.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:51
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All that plot is good and all but the issue with the "it's all in their head/dreams" game is that it generally is super dumb and also stupid. Too many people use it as a way out of making an actual reason for things to exist in the game world. And why do I have to walk around with two bullets? Why can't I Inception an M1 Abrams tank into the word? The only levels that work for "mind" games are the ones that are really hosed up and clearly nightmares. Otherwise it's just a cop out imo
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Jul 5, 2016 19:51
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DreamShipWrecked posted:All that plot is good and all but the issue with the "it's all in their head/dreams" game is that it generally is super dumb and also stupid. Too many people use it as a way out of making an actual reason for things to exist in the game world. And why do I have to walk around with two bullets? Why can't I Inception an M1 Abrams tank into the word? There's a good reason for that, at least - Ruvik's the one pulling the strings on everything, which is why nearly everyone who winds up in the STEM turns into his thralls and you keep getting sicced by monsters relating to his neuroses. Sebastian, for some reason, is such a hardass that Ruvik can't just passively explode his head or something even when he's in Ruvik's own mindscape, so the only time he's a threat is when he manifests in the STEM directly to try and one-shot you. e: of course you could also justifiably ask "then why doesn't Ruvik take away all my ammo and leave me to face the enemies with a bent spoon or something," but I guess you could hand-wave the few bullets that appear as Sebastian exerting his own weak influence over the dream. Gutierrez and the journalist probably "built" the save-point hospital and that place has a whole loving vault full of ordinance. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 19:57
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CharlestonJew posted:heres the plot of TEW: It was all a dream the bad guy wins gently caress you buy the sequel I never knew about this but I like it.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:59
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TEW makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a dark and gritty remake of Psychonauts
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Jul 5, 2016 20:06
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oldpainless posted:I never knew about this but I like it. Here's a video of him
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Jul 5, 2016 20:22
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Oxxidation posted:e: of course you could also justifiably ask "then why doesn't Ruvik take away all my ammo and leave me to face the enemies with a bent spoon or something," but I guess you could hand-wave the few bullets that appear as Sebastian exerting his own weak influence over the dream. Gutierrez and the journalist probably "built" the save-point hospital and that place has a whole loving vault full of ordinance. Also I think that Ruvik's power in STEM is somewhat regulated and stymied by being in that machine. That he's having to support his existence over a number of shared consciousness while also dealing with his own neurosis' and that he's nothing more than a brain in a jar, maybe means he's not working at his full potential and that's a part of why he wants to escape his slowly crumbling world in the STEM. I mean his entire existence at that point seems to rely on other people's minds and that he needs to escape/keep some of the subjects alive to reach his end goal of escape. I mean, he's trying to get to Leslie, why not just hitch a ride and follow the people who are going to actively lead him to Leslie?
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Jul 5, 2016 20:39
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Niggurath posted:I think it's more reasonable to explain it as the player needs to defend themselves and it's good for game play. I mean, did people walk through Resident Evil 4 wondering why a random wooden crate in a dilapidated Spanish village had huge gems, magnum ammo, or snakes? Nope, it's just assumed that ammo pick-ups are present in a game. You don't need to wonder because the answer is obvious - Spanish villagers like to store their gems, ammo and snakes in wooden crates.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:32
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an overdue owl posted:You don't need to wonder because the answer is obvious - Spanish villagers like to store their gems, ammo and snakes in wooden crates. If the game took place in rural Texas no one would have even questioned it
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Jul 5, 2016 21:54
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i thought the ending implied you were still inside the machine
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Jul 6, 2016 00:09
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Relin posted:i thought the ending implied you were still inside the machine either you're still in the machine or the STEM machine did some sort of permanent damage to Sebastian of course we'll probably never know because everything has to be a franchise these days
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Jul 6, 2016 00:12
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CharlestonJew posted:of course we'll probably never know because everything has to be a franchise these days
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Jul 6, 2016 00:32
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Relin posted:i thought the ending implied you were still inside the machine
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Jul 6, 2016 02:07
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Niggurath posted:I figured the ending implied they had left the machine and that Ruvik with his new body could now have the same control over people's minds at large in the real world. And that Sebastian was out and about, and would now be having to hunt down Ruvik as he manipulates the real world. The DLC makes it clear you're still inside.
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Jul 6, 2016 02:17
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Oxxidation posted:The DLC makes it clear you're still inside.
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Jul 6, 2016 02:28
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