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Could they also possibly remove the Musou from the Musou
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Jul 5, 2016 15:52
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turtlecrunch posted:Could they also possibly remove the Musou from the Musou They are getting rid of the capture points and poo poo from most Musou's so they're at least slightly doing that. Better a Musou than a Souls clone though.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:38
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Better a Musou than a Souls clone though.  I would be more bothered but Souls is already a Berserk game.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:49
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Souls combat is slow, suited only to low enemy number encounters and From Soft haven't shown themselves capable of telling an actual story in their games. They're decent at barebones lore and world building, but only that. Better it be a Musou where you just swing the Dragonslayer around, kill a couple of thousand enemies by mashing Square and getting bored of it after a week than something as unrepresentative as Souls would be at Berserk. 'cos Guts isn't 2 hits and done, he's not slow, he doesn't need a break every 2 swings to recharge his stamina. He just keeps going until everything is dead or the sun comes up. Where Musou struggles for Berserk would be the Apostle fights, but I hear the Zelda and Dragon Quest ones made pretty good showings at 1v1 kind of things. Leave Souls and its clones as a "inspired by" thing, imo.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:04
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Somebody didn't play bloodborne or DS3. It gets much faster, and if they wanted to they could make it even faster. Have ultra greatswords swing at the speed that normal swords do in Bloodborne and you'd be pretty set on a Berserk game. And the combat in souls is way better than almost any other action game out there, so while yeah they are good at world building, that's hardly all they do. Josuke Higashikata posted:Better it be a Musou where you just swing the Dragonslayer around, kill a couple of thousand enemies by mashing Square and getting bored of it after a week than something as unrepresentative as Souls would be at Berserk. 'cos Guts isn't 2 hits and done, he's not slow, he doesn't need a break every 2 swings to recharge his stamina. He just keeps going until everything is dead or the sun comes up. Right, so better to mash X and cut through dozens of enemies without any resistance or even decent animations? And the some QTE events for the apostles? Dark Souls could make proper boss fights out of all of them, incredible boss fights. Dodging Zodd around columns and poo poo. He doesn't need a break every 2 swings but neither do souls characters if you put any stats into stamina, and guts does tire at times. You're ignoring that souls games are open-ended and you can build lots of different characters; building it around Berserk they would make that more straightforward but you can really build a Guts-type fighter in souls if you want to. If you just don't like souls, whatever, but these are dumb and short-sighted complaints.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:13
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Souls combat is slow, suited only to low enemy number encounters and From Soft haven't shown themselves capable of telling an actual story in their games. They're decent at barebones lore and world building, but only that. The difference here is that there are good souls games whereas all musou games are bad. (Okay, some of them are average instead)
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Jul 5, 2016 17:17
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Souls combat is slow, suited only to low enemy number encounters and From Soft haven't shown themselves capable of telling an actual story in their games. They're decent at barebones lore and world building, but only that. Someone hasn't played Bloodborne.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:23
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I've probably mentioned it in this thread before, but playing the Barbarian in Severance is a good "young Guts" game. Great representation of chopping dudes up with weighty weapons, although you rarely fight lots of enemies or any huge ones.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:27
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Playing a warrior in Dragon's Dogma is also a pretty good Guts simulator, although they are a bit slow. Heck, you even get cursed by a malevolent supernatural being and have to fight monsters to save your life. Also that game literally has Guts and Griffith outfit DLC 
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Jul 5, 2016 17:31
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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mck6u_bloodborne-yharnam-pthumerian-queen_videogames I uploaded this poo poo back when there was like 2 or 3 versions of this fight on the internet. Don't assume that because someone can criticise Dark Souls gameplay, for this one particular franchise even, that they know nothing about the game. I've got a review up on a gaming site too, but it's going through server shifts and poo poo so it's not available, but I gave it a glowing review. DaS 3 is quicker than 1 or 2, but it's sluggish compared to Bloodborne, I can't go back to it. I fuckin' love Bloodborne. Bloodborne's still too slow though. The combat in Souls is some good poo poo, the reason why people don't like Souls fans overall is because they're overzealous and blinkered and take any slight criticism as a huge knock. And yeah, mashing attack to slice through dozens of enemies is as "Berserk" as it gets. How many double page spreads of Guts cutting through several enemies in a single stroke while people are saying "He cut through three monsters/people in a single strike!?". It's the quintessential Berserk thing. The PS2 game understood that perfectly well, as does the Musou. You can't build Guts in any existing Souls either. You can build a dude with a big rear end sword. Guts fights like he's holding a feather. Musou is the far superior choice because it'll achieve the game's purpose. Schlocky fanservice, some cool poo poo to look at and that's about that. No one is expecting or saying "make a great game". Begemot posted:Also that game literally has Guts and Griffith outfit DLC It was in the base game, wasn't it? Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 17:32
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that was a really weird roundabout way to say that musou sucks but berserk's cool i'd rather have a proper character action game with inputs and hitstop and poo poo
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Jul 5, 2016 17:39
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Musou does suck. The only reason to play this one is because it's Berserk. Souls will always be better off doing its own thing being inspired by, not actually being Berserk.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:42
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Begemot posted:Also that game literally has Guts and Griffith outfit DLC But they had to strip it out of the PC port  Josuke Higashikata posted:Guts fights like he's holding a feather. Guts fights really fast considering how big the dragonslayer is, but this is nonsense.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:44
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Bloodborne's still too slow though. The combat in Souls is some good poo poo, the reason why people don't like Souls fans overall is because they're overzealous and blinkered and take any slight criticism as a huge knock. I would say Bloodborne is roughly the speed of the Berserk PS2 game, if not a bit faster. The point is that From was able to ratchet up the gameplay speed considerably and still have things work out very well. I think they could make a Berserk game do well with what they got with some mechanics alterations (e.g. no stamina of course), although perhaps not on a technical level (considering how the framerate dips in the enemy dense areas in DS3).
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Jul 5, 2016 17:44
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Zaphod42 posted:Guts fights really fast considering how big the dragonslayer is, but this is nonsense.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:51
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The manga says he swings the sword faster than the eye can see at several points. He swings it like it's nothing not to him, so no, not really. Feathers have a wonky structure and flail around, and have so little mass you can't even put force into the swing even if you try. A better comparison would be a cardboard tube. But acting like guts' doesn't exert himself to swing the sword is also wrong. He can do it, a lot, and almost nobody else can even carry the sword, but that doesn't mean its nothing to him. You can see him tense up and use his muscles to swing it around, even if its wicked fast.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:53
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Zaphod42 posted:Feathers have a wonky structure and flail around, and have so little mass you can't even put force into the swing even if you try. Zaphod42 posted:But acting like guts' doesn't exert himself to swing the sword is also wrong. He can do it, a lot, and almost nobody else can even carry the sword, but that doesn't mean its nothing to him. You can see him tense up and use his muscles to swing it around, even if its wicked fast. The Berserk Musou evokes a better feel of playing as Guts than anything shown in a Souls game, the gameplay systems give a better feel of Berserk. 
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Jul 5, 2016 18:03
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i disagree but understand what you mean 
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Jul 5, 2016 18:05
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Anyone who badmouths dynasty warriors has garbage opinions about video games. Enjoy your souls and bloodborne, but leave DW alone you fucks.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:05
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Josuke Higashikata posted:God, that's pedantic as gently caress. There is a windup. And most of the time he doesn't swing it around like it weighs nothing. That only happens when he goes Berserk,
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Jul 5, 2016 18:05
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The Berserk Musou evokes a better feel of playing as Guts than anything shown in a Souls game, the gameplay systems give a better feel of Berserk. That doesn't really help when the gameplay is bad. Also, I disagree
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Jul 5, 2016 18:09
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Andrast posted:That doesn't really help when the gameplay is bad. It being good was never on the cards. The anime proves it. Miura used his Behelit to sacrifice us all to have poor adaptations in exchange for Idolm@ster gear. That's why we suffer. Anyway, my boy Judeau getting some love owns. Hopefully the rest of the Hawks are in too, as well as pimp slap mode Rickert.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:12
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berserk owns and musou owns. the game will be good
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Jul 5, 2016 18:17
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apropos to nothing posted:berserk owns and musou owns. the game will be good Yeah even if its FotNS2-level quality I'll still have a ton of fun with it. I wonder if it will have a take on Dream Mode, with scenarios like Corkus becoming leader of the Hawks in some kind of alternate universe or Isidro becoming a legendary warrior with Guts chasing him instead. The original Ken's Rage had that awesome scenario that was basically "Jagi & Amiba's Excellent Adventure" and it loving owned.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:27
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Guts is known for fat-rolling and dying to scratch damage from falling off one too many chest-high ledges. Souls protags are in many ways weaker than average humans. It's funny.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:54
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yeah as much as the souls games are inspired by Berserk they would be a bad way to represent Berserk out side of some boss fights. i just want a revengence style berserk game really.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:35
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I always thought people compared DS to Berserk because it captured the ambiance and mood of Berserk. The near hopelessness of being a simple human fighting demons and gods in a grim medieval Europe settings. The mechanics combat are what they are, but not what inspires the comparison. Dynasty warriors seem like the opposite, over powered guy slays hundreds without much depth or emotion.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:56
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Sazabi posted:I always thought people compared DS to Berserk because it captured the ambiance and mood of Berserk. The near hopelessness of being a simple human fighting demons and gods in a grim medieval Europe settings. The mechanics combat are what they are, but not what inspires the comparison. Souls captures the thematic elements of Berserk to a T while Musou captures the important "chop hundreds of guys to bits" elements. If you're making an action game the former isn't as important as the latter.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:10
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An actual adaptation of Berserk is going to capture the thematic elements of Berserk unless it's horribly bungled anyway, so the former point isn't even a point in favour of any proposed sort of "Berserk" game, be it Souls clone, Musou, Pokemon or Tetris. It's part and parcel of the package.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:13
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Souls combat is good but a bad fit for Berserk. It's mostly about being cautious and prepared, controlling the number of enemies you're facing at any given time, and effectively routing them in between landing hits. If they were making a Serpico game, I'd say to use Souls as a base, but for Guts and honestly most other characters in the series that's not gonna feel "Right."
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Jul 5, 2016 20:15
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I'd rather have a Berserk Tetris than a Berserk musou
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Jul 5, 2016 20:16
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Dark Souls taken verbatim wouldn't work, but that's not the point. Of course there would be changes made if you're making a Berserk version. The point is that the souls combat is deeper and more rewarding and realistic than almost any other action game. Obviously you would change a lot, but you use it as a starting point, a template. I dunno why you guys can't see that. Its literally just a matter of bumping up the speeds. Those are just variables. In software changes like that are very easy. Its building the framework that takes time. You'd have to change some of the design to fit the new speeds, but that's exactly what happened in Bloodborne. You can make it faster and then change the levels and enemies to adapt. Bloodborne even lets you heal yourself by doing damage; things like that are easily possible within the souls framework and heavily change the feel of it. Everybody saying "souls is about being cautious" is missing the point. That's why so many people responded with "so I guess you've never played bloodborne". Which isn't to say that a berserk bloodborne game is what we are proposing either. It would have to be different than bloodborne. But using that as a template would give you a great launching point. Andrast posted:I'd rather have a Berserk Tetris than a Berserk musou Only if its like street fighter tetris where I get to watch Guts and Griffith duel each other while we clear lines.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:27
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I'd argue Bloodborne is also about being cautious, just there's other rubs to it - chief among them the cornered rat aspect, where it's possible to lash out in a way that isn't really possible when you find yourself in the same situation in a mainline Souls title. You're still very grounded in terms of what you're able to pull off and need to be mindful of a lot of competing factors. Of course in adapting Berserk they'd have to change some things, and probably would, but typically when people play that angle ("They should get X to make it," "They should make it like X") it's because they're hoping for something in that style, and I still feel like a good Berserk game would be more at odds than in tune with Souls' game design.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:40
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The quality in Souls combat is in the thoughtful and cautious approach though. I'd argue that's why there are so many variations in challenge runs and handicaps. People get so good at it that they lose what makes it great and then have to think of new ways to get it back. Bloodborne is still about being cautious, it just goes about it differently. You don't charge into huge packs you can't handle, you still take the approach that works. The biggest difference in Bloodborne really is that you're best off darting in through attacks before they hit as opposed to parrying, blocking or rolling out. How much do you change the formula too before it's not Souls anyway? Turning up swinging speed doesn't fix anything to make it like Berserk. Guts isn't weak like a souls character, he doesn't die and try again, he powers through. The enemies aren't threats to him like a Souls enemy is to the player. Remove that aspect of Souls though and it's going to be lame. Musou is "point me at them, they'll be dead soon" and that's basically the summary of Guts' style even though he's still a fighter with finesse at fighting in the end. The other thing is that other than major apostles, the Dragonslayer kills everything in one hit. A souls where you attack really quickly and kill everything on one hit sounds like poo poo. You can turn it up to 11 on the speed dial, make the animations quicker (Souls badly needs a new animation set as a whole actually), it's just going to be god mode man versus like 7 enemies that can no longer kill you. A Berserk game largely takes away another strength the Souls games has and that's level design. There aren't many "Souls" esque levels in Berserk that would work especially well and the enemy placement, type and area heavily dictates how you would fight them. Boss fights are generally pretty open areas. Like Seafood says, Serpico Souls would own, Griffith Souls would probably be good too if it was Golden Age, but at its core Berserk is Guts and his Dragonslayer and it just doesn't fit Souls. Even though Souls is too slow, so many more things go into making a Souls game "Souls" , and a lot of those things are inspired by Berserk, but won't work in a real Berserk because of what it is. I really don't think there are many RPGs or settings that wouldn't benefit from either Souls, Dragon's Dogma or Platinum combat and design but Berserk isn't one that would. (I'd still argue for DD or Platinum over Souls for Berserk, in that order probably. I wouldn't choose to argue for either though) Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 20:49
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I've been playing Musou games for over 10 years and I'm not stopping anytime soon. Give me the Berserk Musou right into my veins.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:01
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That's more true for Guts versus random swordsmen though. If its Guts against demons or especially disciples, he's not necessarily killing everything in one hit. Still, I see where you're coming from. Souls games are usually about being cautious, but they also create a tension and dread from dying which is important. When you run into some bone wheels or a disciple, you need to be intimidated, scared even. Then if you can manage to not die and triumph you feel really cool, but if you just die over and over because there's no penalty for death like most action games, its not the same. That's what souls does in spades that games like musou can't even touch, which is so important to me for a Berserk title. Then again guts himself is just kinda suicidal and fearless, so I get what you mean about musou being guts-style while souls would fit Serpico or Griffith more. I dunno if I agree completely though, there are times where guts is at least intimidated by the giant monsters he faces, he just usually goes from "oh poo poo that thing is crazy" to "I'm gonna kill you no matter what" in about 2 seconds, and rather than guts being invincible its more like he could die at any moment, but I see what you mean. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 22:14
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I like musou more than souls so this is the best thing that could have happened Also Souls combat doesn't fit berserk at all, and Bloodborne is still a very slow paced and measured action game relative to the genre. It's just fast relative to other souls games.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:18
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I like DS being a Berserk game in everything but name. I don't get the need for Guts to fight 100 men at once for it be a real Berserk game. Most of the story isn't that way, only specific scenes are like that. I can see a Musou being a good fit for Berserk but I don't think Musou games are the only fit. At least it isn't a fighting game.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:21
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The main issue with souls/berserk comparison is that soulsborne games involve a lot of evasion and dodging/rolling, which isnt something we see guts do a lot in the manga. A good comparison might be Devil May Cry, a combat system that has options to dodge and roll but your best defence option is generally to hit bad guys before they can hit you first.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:52
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Uhh musou is fine for berserk, all i care about doing is slashing through a billion dumbass goblins or whatever with Guts and doing cool moves and playing as every single character in the manga
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Jul 5, 2016 23:16
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