terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Jabor posted:

actually, proportional fonts are good

not comic sans obv, but in general the reason people use monospaced fonts for writing code is 100% just inertia

no. monospaced fonts are much easier for reading code. Its the same reason we use tabs instead of spaces and all man style instead of some hosed up bullshit

# ? Jul 5, 2016 17:38

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# ? May 11, 2024 22:38

oh no blimp issue: Feb 23, 2011

Luigi Thirty posted:

my normals!

you were never normal

# ? Jul 5, 2016 17:42

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

Jabor posted:

actually, proportional fonts are good

not comic sans obv, but in general the reason people use monospaced fonts for writing code is 100% just inertia

look at how wrong this post is

# ? Jul 5, 2016 17:46

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

gods favorite language Chinese is monospaced

it's the best

# ? Jul 5, 2016 17:48

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

Shaggar posted:

no. monospaced fonts are much easier for reading code. Its the same reason we use tabs instead of spaces and all man style instead of some hosed up bullshit

actually, rob pike says monospaced fonts are bad because

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:24

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

idk who that is but hes probably an idiot.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:25

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

FamDav posted:

gods favorite language Chinese is monospaced

it's the best

now I want to see a Chinese programming language

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:27

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

i really don't care about fonts but if you don't use monospace does that mean your codea might not align even if they have the same number of characters because 'i' doesn't have the same width as 't'?

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:27

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

yes. monospace means each character has the same width.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:28

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

Soricidus posted:

now I want to see a Chinese programming language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)

:v:

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:29

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

Shaggar posted:

no. monospaced fonts are much easier for reading code. Its the same reason we use tabs instead of spaces and all man style instead of some hosed up bullshit

the entire reason proportional fonts are used in everyday writing is for readability. having different letter widths makes it easier and quicker to scan text and understand what has been written.

yes, it's hard to break with in-grained traditions, especially ones that you've been using since the first time you started coding. i personally only started using a proportional font as a joke, a bit of a laugh. but then i just kept using it after realizing that there's actually no real benefits to using a monospace ide font.

(i still use a monospace font in my terminal, because lots of programs do two-dimensional layout of stuff which all breaks with a proportional font. if i could solve that bit of historical inertia i'd start using a real font there as well.)

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:33

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

actually, rob pike says monospaced fonts are bad because

The entire plan9 expats using Acme are like that (of course it comes from rob pike):

it does not use monospace by default, has no syntax highlighting, and its biggest feature is probably mouse chording more than anything.

It also explains why Go has a bunch of standalone tools (like go fmt) instead of bigass IDEs so the features could be lifted by users of acme without doing anything special.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:42

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

turn off syntax highlighting.
make font 14pt dark green comic sans.
make background color light green.

e: :gas:

HoboMan fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jul 5, 2016

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:52

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

MononcQc posted:

mouse chording

quote:

To snarf (ie., copy)

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:53

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

MononcQc posted:

The entire plan9 expats using Acme are like that (of course it comes from rob pike):

it does not use monospace by default, has no syntax highlighting, and its biggest feature is probably mouse chording more than anything.

It also explains why Go has a bunch of standalone tools (like go fmt) instead of bigass IDEs so the features could be lifted by users of acme without doing anything special.

idk if this is terrible because of the unreadable non-monospace font, or the bad Linux font rendering.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:57

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Jabor posted:

the entire reason proportional fonts are used in everyday writing is for readability. having different letter widths makes it easier and quicker to scan text and understand what has been written.

yes, it's hard to break with in-grained traditions, especially ones that you've been using since the first time you started coding. i personally only started using a proportional font as a joke, a bit of a laugh. but then i just kept using it after realizing that there's actually no real benefits to using a monospace ide font.

(i still use a monospace font in my terminal, because lots of programs do two-dimensional layout of stuff which all breaks with a proportional font. if i could solve that bit of historical inertia i'd start using a real font there as well.)

programming languages aren't read like normal human languages so monospacing helps make it easier to read. proportional fonts are useful because it makes individual words easier to read whereas monospaced fonts make blocks of code easier to read.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 18:59

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

yeah that sounds great until the first time you look at a commented struct and there's just barf everywhere

or have to distinguish between 0 and O, or l and I.

proportional fonts for programming, loving lol

hipster childs just have to find as many ways as possible to be special

# ? Jul 5, 2016 19:35

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

rob pike is an absolute imbecile and anything he thinks is good is ipso facto bad

# ? Jul 5, 2016 19:47

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

ok, how the gently caress does TransactionScope work? i am obviously missing something.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 19:51

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Shaggar posted:

idk if this is terrible because of the unreadable non-monospace font, or the bad Linux font rendering.

It's both

# ? Jul 5, 2016 19:52

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

haskell is really neat, you guys

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:14

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

HoboMan posted:

ok, how the gently caress does TransactionScope work? i am obviously missing something.

hahaha, ofc the default settings for TransactionScope don't play nice with SQL Server it's two things both made by Microsoft after all

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:15

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

quiggy posted:

haskell is really neat, you guys

just bear in mind that the quicksort example that always gets trotted out is not quicksort and as much as it's neat it's mostly just a demo

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:25

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

gonadic io posted:

just bear in mind that the quicksort example that always gets trotted out is not quicksort and as much as it's neat it's mostly just a demo

you mean

code:

quicksort :: (Ord a) => [a] -> [a]
quicksort [] = []
quicksort (x:xs) = quicksort lesser ++ [x] ++ quicksort greater
    where
        lesser = [i | i <- xs, i <= x]
        greater = [i | i <- xs, i > x]

?

because that's literally the definition of quicksort if im not mistaken

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:32

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

are there any fancy data structures in haskell or do i need to roll my own if i am going to do a thing in it?

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:35

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

HoboMan posted:

are there any fancy data structures in haskell or do i need to roll my own if i am going to do a thing in it?

state is haraam, comrade

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:35

triple sulk: Sep 17, 2014

MononcQc posted:

The entire plan9 expats using Acme are like that (of course it comes from rob pike):

it does not use monospace by default, has no syntax highlighting, and its biggest feature is probably mouse chording more than anything.

It also explains why Go has a bunch of standalone tools (like go fmt) instead of bigass IDEs so the features could be lifted by users of acme without doing anything special.

i'm the oops

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:45

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

HoboMan posted:

are there any fancy data structures in haskell or do i need to roll my own if i am going to do a thing in it?

i think the average haskellers has four terabytes of fancy data structure hd porn on his hdd

# ? Jul 5, 2016 20:45

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

quiggy posted:

state is haraam, comrade

oh right, i keep forgetting how functional programming works

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:24

Asymmetrikon: Oct 30, 2009; I believe you're a big dork!

state doesn't really have much to do with data structures. haskell has plenty of exotic ones. you will learn to love the zipper.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:28

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

the thing i want to do needs an efficient way to represent and traverse undirected graphs and n-ary trees.
since it's a toy thing i figured i may as well do it in a language i don't know, just trying to figure out how much i would be committing myself to.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:38

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

HoboMan posted:

the thing i want to do needs an efficient way to represent and traverse undirected graphs and n-ary trees.
since it's a toy thing i figured i may as well do it in a language i don't know, just trying to figure out how much i would be committing myself to.

keep in mind im still very new to haskell, n-ary trees are probably not that bad but i have no idea how you'd do an undirected graph (or a directed graph for that matter)

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:39

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

an undirected graph can simply be represented as a list of all the edges if i remember correctly so this is probably fairly manageable

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:43

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

NihilCredo posted:

i think the average haskellers has four terabytes of fancy data structure hd porn on his hdd

lol if you download porn in tyool 2016

# ? Jul 5, 2016 21:45

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

quiggy posted:

you mean

code:

quicksort :: (Ord a) => [a] -> [a]
quicksort [] = []
quicksort (x:xs) = quicksort lesser ++ [x] ++ quicksort greater
    where
        lesser = [i | i <- xs, i <= x]
        greater = [i | i <- xs, i > x]

?

because that's literally the definition of quicksort if im not mistaken

The problem is that that quicksort doesn't sort in place, which messes up some of the asymptotics IIRC. There are various ways around it using mutable vectors and the like, and the code isn't that much uglier, but it does make for a less exciting demo.

quiggy posted:

keep in mind im still very new to haskell, n-ary trees are probably not that bad but i have no idea how you'd do an undirected graph (or a directed graph for that matter)

Not sure how well this scales, but I've represented small graphs in Haskell as association lists before and it seemed to work well enough. I think it was basically a wrapper around a Map Node [Node].

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:05

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

HoboMan posted:

hahaha, ofc the default settings for TransactionScope don't play nice with SQL Server it's two things both made by Microsoft after all

yeah it does.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:05

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

HoboMan posted:

ok, how the gently caress does TransactionScope work? i am obviously missing something.

you wrap ur transactional code in a using w/ the transaction scope. if a transaction doesn't exist it is created, if it does exist, it is joined (depending on options).

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:13

HoboMan: Nov 4, 2010

sorry to break it to you shaggar, but microsoft makes bad decisions sometimes.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:18

quiggy: Aug 7, 2010; [in Russian] Oof.

VikingofRock posted:

The problem is that that quicksort doesn't sort in place, which messes up some of the asymptotics IIRC. There are various ways around it using mutable vectors and the like, and the code isn't that much uglier, but it does make for a less exciting demo.

according to ~wikipedia~ quicksort can be in-place but doesn't have to be. besides can haskell even perform algorithms in-place whatsoever? like i have no idea how i'd implement a strictly in-place algorithm like fisher-yates shuffle in haskell

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:19

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# ? May 11, 2024 22:38

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

quiggy posted:

according to ~wikipedia~ quicksort can be in-place but doesn't have to be. besides can haskell even perform algorithms in-place whatsoever? like i have no idea how i'd implement a strictly in-place algorithm like fisher-yates shuffle in haskell

use a mutable array.

the idea that no mutation exists in haskell is completely wrong (and one that most beginners come to it with), it just is explicit and constrained.

# ? Jul 5, 2016 22:28

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