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ImpAtom posted:the argument that supports require less skill is silly. If both teams have five rank 50s with 1 rank 70 each, would you rather have the rank 70 on your team playing Mercy or something that can carry? There's a difference between good supports and bad supports, but it's much smaller than the difference between good DPS and bad DPS.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:59
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I started playing Mercy in solo queue competitive as long as: We have at least one tank I am not the only one on the mic The res is by far the most powerful ult in the game and it greatly increases your chance to win if your team possesses a basic level of coordination.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:05
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:there should be some kind of reward / motivator for playing support because jesus christ it's like pulling teeth, and while I have a mountain of issues with their particular implementations Blizzard is right to conclude that most players won't do things without external motivation I think the support situation would've been fine if they made the two main healing supports any fun at all for the majority of people to play, but they're only appealing for people who already enjoy pure support roles (a minority in and of itself). I come from an MMO background, where getting people to play tanks is an exercise in frustration, and it's honestly rare for me to see a team without a single Reinhardt/Roadhog/Zarya. Reinhardt appeals strongly to people who love being the brick wall style of tank, while Zarya and Roadhog have enough offensive power (and are fun enough to play) to attract people who might otherwise shy away from the standard idea of "the tank." There's sufficient character variety and mechanics in playing the aforementioned two tanks that even people who might otherwise prefer to frag have a strong incentive to pick up and play them when they see that their team needs a tank. By point of comparison, both Mercy and Lucio appeal to very specific niches of players (people who enjoy pure supports) and to no one else. I like Mercy's gun and have lauded it before, but it's still a little pea shooter compared to every other weapon in the game, and Lucio's gun may as well shoot farts for how effective it feels. Mercy's got an interesting minigame of positioning, but it rarely feels great to participate in because there's no immediate feedback for if you're doing well or not (beyond people surviving with slivers of health thanks to your healing). Lucio's even worse, because the passive effect of his healing aura makes his effectiveness mostly invisible, and all that's left after that is a (mostly useless) wallriding mechanic and a lovely gun. When combined with them both being 200 HP characters with limited means of escape, it's easy to see why people don't pick them up: because the majority of people don't want to feel completely helpless against other players in a game centered around killing the enemy team. Zenyatta was meant to more broadly appeal to people who wanted some fragging power, but his kit's a big mess that needs some serious reworking before more people will want to touch him. Vermain fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 23:14
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For those character selection warnings, they need to get rid of the yellow one for "No Sniper" and replace it with a big red one for "Sniper on Attacking Team" Also move the ranking bar so it's not its own screen and is just above/under the XP bar on the medals screen
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Jul 5, 2016 23:30
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Supercar Gautier posted:People really do think of skill rating as a progression system, and the way it's presented probably has a lot to do with that. They expect their rating to go up if they put the time in. They don't expect it to settle in a certain range, and they definitely don't expect it to drop. That's a good point. My first rating exposure was chess ELO (pretty much this system for folks who don't know acronyms) so this system feels really natural to me.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:30
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Vermain posted:
I didn't know wanting to win by having a good team composition was a niche.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:30
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Icedude posted:For those character selection warnings, they need to get rid of the yellow one for "No Sniper" and replace it with a big red one for "Sniper on Attacking Team" You don't get to see what the other team has until the match starts, though. (Otherwise it would kinda turn into a game of hero select chicken, which would be dumb.)
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Jul 5, 2016 23:35
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Did anyone else not get the spray for completing the ten placement matches after doing so? I tried doing one other competitive match after to see if that'd do it, but nope still not available 
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Jul 5, 2016 23:36
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Icedude posted:For those character selection warnings, they need to get rid of the yellow one for "No Sniper" and replace it with a big red one for "Sniper on Attacking Team" Dumb post. Of course a Sniper can be useful on attack.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:37
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Zoness posted:I didn't know wanting to win by having a good team composition was a niche. If having Mercy/Lucio on your team 100% of the time was not required to win a game, would you continue to play them?
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Jul 5, 2016 23:37
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Did anyone else not get the spray for completing the ten placement matches after doing so? I tried doing one other competitive match after to see if that'd do it, but nope still not available Post-season reward.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:39
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Dumb post. Oh I didn't even assume that his suggestion was this dumb.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:40
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Squinty posted:If both teams have five rank 50s with 1 rank 70 each, would you rather have the rank 70 on your team playing Mercy or something that can carry? There's a difference between good supports and bad supports, but it's much smaller than the difference between good DPS and bad DPS. I don't agree at all. I think it's less blatant when a support is doing a good job vs a DPS who team kills the entire enemy team but that doesn't make it less important.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:42
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Vermain posted:If having Mercy/Lucio on your team 100% of the time was not required to win a game, would you continue to play them? I would play any character that improves my team's composition by the most theoretically possible.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:50
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Someone remind me why Symmetra isn't considered a Defense hero?
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Jul 5, 2016 23:50
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Vermain posted:If having Mercy/Lucio on your team 100% of the time was not required to win a game, would you continue to play them? I'd still play Lucio for sure. Mercy I would never play in pub games again ever, but maybe in 6-man teams.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:51
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Lucio and Mercy are fun as gently caress IMO, especially when you like who you have on your team.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:52
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Part of the problem is Mercy is fun to play in a deeply sub-optimal way, which is to say bouncing between allies like you're in a pinball machine and diving deep for rezzes and somehow making it out (you will not usually make it out and your team would have benefitted more if you hid in a corner and waited for the Big Rez.)
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Jul 5, 2016 23:54
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They need to move Symmetra to Defense and make 2 more "healing" Support characters.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:58
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Regalingualius posted:Someone remind me why Symmetra isn't considered a Defense hero? My guess is that once upon a time her shields were more powerful and she had the Zarya-like ability to proactively keep teammates alive with them, but her design gradually changed and the shields were gradually nerfed, yet Blizzard stubbornly kept her in the wrong category.
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Jul 5, 2016 23:58
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Why not an explosives-based healer and a totem healer or some poo poo? They have plenty they could do!
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Jul 6, 2016 00:01
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Regalingualius posted:Someone remind me why Symmetra isn't considered a Defense hero? So they can pretend to have good hero variety in every category. Having three supports is too few. Maybe when they add another healer they'll move her over.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:honestly the "not enough supports" pop-up was a great start and is surprisingly effective And tagged Sym Support lol
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Jul 6, 2016 00:02
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NmareBfly posted:So they can pretend to have good hero variety in every category. Having three supports is too few. Maybe when they add another healer they'll move her over. When they add two more snipers they will move Torbjorn over to the Support category, because he gives people armor.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:03
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Internet Explorer posted:They need to move Symmetra to Defense and make 2 more "healing" Support characters. Oddly enough I think Symmetra's turrets should heal a character if they go past, but they can't fire on anyone incoming while a damaged character is in range, just an interesting little change. I also just had two people leave a sudden death match where we got the attack side. I don't even know.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:06
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Vermain posted:If having Mercy/Lucio on your team 100% of the time was not required to win a game, would you continue to play them? Yes.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:14
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low 30's competitive voice chat is great 'hey hanzo, do you think you could shoot that turret?' 'nah, y'all getting smoked' 'what do you mean, you all, are you on some other team' 'yeah, im on my own team' *at the end of the round, in which we are mercilessly steamrolled and do not take a solitary point* SEE I TOL YALL NIGGAS YOU SUCK! THREE GOLD MEDALS FOR HANZO, LOOK AT THAT poo poo!! ...I just think a lot of people haven't really played a team based shooter before. Especially when you ask them to switch off of widow on offense and then they choose mcree
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Jul 6, 2016 00:16
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Icedude posted:For those character selection warnings, they need to get rid of the yellow one for "No Sniper" and replace it with a big red one for " there i fixed your post for you
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Jul 6, 2016 00:17
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Supercar Gautier posted:My guess is that once upon a time her shields were more powerful and she had the Zarya-like ability to proactively keep teammates alive with them, but her design gradually changed and the shields were gradually nerfed, yet Blizzard stubbornly kept her in the wrong category. I guess that makes sense? I mean, her only "healing" is her shields, and... By that metric, loving Torb is a better support than her.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:19
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Efexeye posted:
No don't you understand, widow and mccree and hanzo are the only skill-based, true AIMING mechanics oriented characters. Playing a support or tank is beneath their mechanical skill level and they would never stoop to such a thing. Why bother with healers when you can have a team of PRO AIMERS playing widow/hanzo -- this game is all about killing the other team right.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:21
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Symmetra used to give more shields, 50, but it was overpowered so it was decreased to 25. Between the shields and the teleporter it's still fair to consider Symmetra a support character though. When they add more support characters this will make more sense because not every support needs to be a healer. edit: Frankly, I would not be surprised if Mercy, Lucio, and Zenyatta were the only support characters to do any healing for quite a while. Proposition Joe fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 00:22
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Here's the metric I use: When your team is missing a support character, picking Symmetra does not actually solve the problem that creates.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:27
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Supercar Gautier posted:Here's the metric I use: When your team is missing a support character, picking Symmetra does not actually solve the problem that creates. If you are on defense then it does. Some heroes are better in some situations than others.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:29
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If you are on defense, then yes, Symmetra is a defensive character who will help you defend points better, which is why she should be in the 'defense' category.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:30
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That's my own beef with Sym: if you've got another support, she's usually pretty decent. But she's the only support that really needs another one to cover for her if you want your team to do well.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:32
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Proposition Joe posted:edit: Frankly, I would not be surprised if Mercy, Lucio, and Zenyatta were the only support characters to do any healing for quite a while. god please no
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Jul 6, 2016 00:33
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Symmetra is support because of the teleporter and the kill rooms/area control. She's not a healer, but she is supportive. (She'd probably fit better under defense, though, I totally agree.)
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Jul 6, 2016 00:37
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Supercar Gautier posted:If you are on defense, then yes, Symmetra is a defensive character who will help you defend points better, which is why she should be in the 'defense' category. Your metric is that if you have no other support heroes then picking Symmetra does not work. It does though, because Symmetra is a good character that can support defenses by giving people shields, teleporting them back to the objective when they die, and blocking off flanking routes. Not every support hero has to be a healer that can be used on every map in every game mode. Countblanc posted:god please no Well yeah, how many characters are we expecting them to add and what are the chances they're going to be adding more healers?
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Jul 6, 2016 00:38
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Comp kind of killed the fun of this game for me, tbh.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:40
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Verranicus posted:Comp kind of killed the fun of this game for me, tbh. That's unfortunate. At least you have Quick Play still.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:41
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