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Basically Mei isn't a flanker, Mei's role (if she were good enough have one at all) is to stay with her team, protect support characters from flankers, and disable / disrupt multiple enemies during fights. The main problem is that the freezing mechanic is massively undertuned for how little damage she deals. If her M1 were fast enough to freeze 2-3 people in a row (or turned into AoE so it can freeze 2-3 people at once) and if her ult actually caught people instead of just prompting anyone with a movement ability to leisurely scoot out of it, she'd be a lot better. Craptacular! posted:I wouldn't necessarily call it moderately effective. I guess it is on a balanced team, but on in imbalanced/uncoordinated team it's far more valuable. You don't balance the game around bad players, or even merely decent ones. But that aside, I meant it was only moderately effective even in that context -- it's not hard to kill Mei out of an ice block once you learn to recognize the audio cue before it breaks. If it's in a teamfight you just make a mental note of where she was while you go back to shooting other people (while she spends 4.5 seconds contributing nothing, apart from maybe payload/point stalling) and if you isolated her she will generally have to blow her ice wall as well as the ice block to get away, and sometimes even that's not enough. Plus if you're Tracer you can just stick a pulse bomb on the ice block. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:16
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Basically Mei isn't a flanker, Mei's role (if she were good enough to be use at all) She is useful, and she's a bit more versatile than you think in my humble opinion. My most played character is Mei, though Pharah is close and I play most characters. She can be great right in the thick of it, holding down the point and whatnot, what with her higher HP and heal/invulnerability that somebody like say Pharah doesn't have. And her attacks are great, plus the wall. Wonderful potential with Mei, in numerous situations. And she's also great for stopping characters one-on-one, and sure flanking and catching somebody from behind is always good. I would be fine with a Mei buff though, D.Va too, buff my favs. Like any character, I think Mei clicks for some and not others. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:22
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just buff junkrat
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Jul 7, 2016 21:27
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If Mei received a right click buff of any sort, it'd improve her without contributing to what people find frustrating about her. If a critical headshot + punch did 220 damage, so you couldn't outheal it as a support, and a freeze was always a death sentence for someone with 200 HP, she'd be a lot better. Or even an improved firing speed so the headshot into punch was a lot faster. Add 5-10 damage to the right click and make it come out 0.25-0.5s faster or something.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You don't balance the game around bad players, or even merely decent ones. You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. Nintendo doesn't build Mario games around speedrunners, either. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:32
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Craptacular! posted:You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. Speaking of that, I had some TviQ stream playing for a bit since somebody linked to it. He said gently caress Mei nobody pick her or something like that, he doesn't know anyway. Also he got killed a bunch of times by Reinhardt hammer swings, having godlike aim isn't everything it seems. 
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Jul 7, 2016 21:36
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Mystery Machine posted:If Mei received a right click buff of any sort, it'd improve her without contributing to what people find frustrating about her. If a critical headshot + punch did 220 damage, so you couldn't outheal it as a support, and a freeze was always a death sentence for someone with 200 HP, she'd be a lot better. Or even an improved firing speed so the headshot into punch was a lot faster. Add 5-10 damage to the right click and make it come out 0.25-0.5s faster or something. I don't think that turning Mei into more of a long-rangr pseudo sniper is the way to go, I agree that what she's probably meant to be is a sort of defensive control-based anti-flanker and in that respect as annoying as people find it what would probably make her better is quicker freeze time on her M1.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:37
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Craptacular! posted:You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. Yeah, but competitive multiplayer games are largely fueled by people honestly wanting to test themselves and strive to be the best. If there's no cool competitive scene for people to aspire to, people aren't motivated to play the game. The best thing to do is to focus on both things. Or to have enough heroes that some are good at low level of play and fall off the better you get. Or to have heroes with a low skill ceiling like Winston. I think Overwatch largely gets it right. If you're good, maybe you can't play Mei but you get to play more Tracer. If you're not great, maybe Tracer is a little too aim heavy but you can still play Mei. Edit: Kai Tave posted:I don't think that turning Mei into more of a long-rangr pseudo sniper is the way to go, I agree that what she's probably meant to be is a sort of defensive control-based anti-flanker and in that respect as annoying as people find it what would probably make her better is quicker freeze time on her M1. I get you, but it's also what people find frustrating about her. Making her more frustrating for weaker players may not be worth the price of that buff. Mystery Machine fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:39
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^^^The problem with that is that it wouldn't be enough to make her any less annoying to the people who already find her annoying, and it still wouldn't make her attractive enough in the right ways for more "pro" players to pick her because if you just want to spam long range headshots using a projectile weapon Hanzo is right over there.Mystery Machine posted:Yeah, but competitive multiplayer games are largely fueled by people honestly wanting to test themselves and strive to be the best. If there's no cool competitive scene for people to aspire to, people aren't motivated to play the game. The best thing to do is to focus on both things. Or to have enough heroes that some are good at low level of play and fall off the better you get. Or to have heroes with a low skill ceiling like Winston. I think Overwatch largely gets it right. If you're good, maybe you can't play Mei but you get to play more Tracer. If you're not great, maybe Tracer is a little too aim heavy but you can still play Mei. The problem with balancing things this way assuming you actually care about pro MLG esports is that it leads to a stagnant meta, because if there are 21 heroes to choose from but all anyone runs is as many Lucios, Tracers, and Winstons as they can then welp so much for that. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:44
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Mystery Machine posted:Yeah, but competitive multiplayer games are largely fueled by people honestly wanting to test themselves and strive to be the best. If there's no cool competitive scene for people to aspire to, people aren't motivated to play the game. The best thing to do is to focus on both things. This is going to make me look like an old man complaining about you kids and your Snapchat, but the most fun I had with FPSes were when there was no skill-based matchmaking, and the competitive scene was Angel Munoz's Cyberathletes or the AMD Professional Gaming League. I love video games my whole life, probably ruined my life so I could spend hours playing them, but this Dota-esque in everything that always balances the game on Liquid VS C9 or whatever isn't fun at all. It's just adding more "git gud" bullshit that gets in the way and tells people that their not having fun is unimportant because if they git gud nobody would be doing the thing they're complaining about. I do agree with this: quote:Or to have enough heroes that some are good at low level of play and fall off the better you get.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:49
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Is Soldier 76 like babbys first shootman? I'm really bad with any other DPS character but I'm really, really good with 76. I find it hard to believe that I'm actually good at the game.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:13
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Rufus T. Turnbuckle posted:Is Soldier 76 like babbys first shootman? I'm really bad with any other DPS character but I'm really, really good with 76. I find it hard to believe that I'm actually good at the game. It's comfortable, familiar, and doesn't have any hard counters. It's hard to be bad at S76.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:15
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I think Mei's more pertinent drawback is that she can get dunked on by anyone good at engaging from range which is a lot of characters with good damage long-range weapons. That she can use her ice cocoon makes her tankier by a bit but it mainly only delays the inevitable against people who know what they're doing.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:15
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This game's pretty fun. I'm not especially good at it, and never will be especially good at it, so I'm happy to just play quick play, and I like that I usually get matched with people who are difficult, but possible to defeat. I understand why people would play competitive mode, and further why some people aspire to esports levels. But it's not for me, and that's okay. I feel like there's some conflict here, much of it internal, when you try and rank these things. Competitive being the "more real" version of the game making quick play feel like a "waste" of time, the most skilled level of play being the most important and so on. But it's not like that. It's all just different ways of playing. Folks should play the way they like and not worry about what kind of status that gives them.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:17
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If mei explodes her own ice wall earlier make it cooldown much faster, then it's more useful as a mobility tool. Maybe make it a lil' taller too. I don't think she can get ontop of the middle building of Hollywood A or through the hanamura A window.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:18
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NmareBfly posted:If mei explodes her own ice wall earlier make it cooldown much faster, then it's more useful as a mobility tool. Maybe make it a lil' taller too. I don't think she can get ontop of the middle building of Hollywood A or through the hanamura A window. Mei's ice wall's cool down, much like Winston's Barrier Projector, and her cryo freeze, all start their cooldown the instant it is gone, this includes when she removes it herself. This already exists. It's also plenty high enough https://gfycat.com/UniformClumsyDuckbillcat
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Jul 7, 2016 22:20
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Craptacular! posted:You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. This is a quick way to have your game completely fall apart.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:22
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The pro tier thing works so far as you don't want to get vested in a character that turns out to be non-viable as you get better and now you have to start from scratch with a new one. The problem to me is there's just no gradient. Something that wins in a local tourney is probably higher than most people will ever get to, but that'd actually take more research and investment than just looking up the latest national/international result at the top end.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:25
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Craptacular! posted:You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. That's a lovely analogy. Mario isn't a competitive multiplayer game. Look at it this way: every character has a certain potential, something inherent in what they can do and what they can't. Bad players are nowhere near that limit. Trying to change the outcome of games between bad players by changing the limit is pointless, because games are far more likely to be decided, at that level, by whether they know what to do, rather than how well they do it, let alone whether the character is actually capable of doing it. It's not just eSports elitism, it's that the concept of competitive balance doesn't even make sense unless you're as close as you can get to objectively measuring each character's capabilities.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:30
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Craptacular! posted:You balance around the majority of games being played. gently caress eSprouts. There is a huge difference between a single-player game and a competitive multiplayer game. Even then some single player games are designed around speedrunning. Like, for example, Metroid, a game specifically designed to be finished as fast as possible. Also older arcade games were designed around not just finishing them but getting a high score with the idea being competition between players to see who gets the high score. There were actual championships and poo poo. (Plus the TOTALLY ACCURATE documentary The Wizard.)
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Jul 7, 2016 22:33
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Goons, don't randomly invite me to a group with you and maybe one other person and then queue. When I say LFG I mean I want to look for a full group. God bless.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:35
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Ddraig posted:Mei's ice wall's cool down, much like Winston's Barrier Projector, and her cryo freeze, all start their cooldown the instant it is gone, this includes when she removes it herself. This already exists. I know both these things. Making it higher would let her get more places and giving it a vastly reduced cooldown if it's popped within the first second or so makes it more useful as a re-positioning tool. Right now there's a risk when you use it to pop ontop of something that it'll be on cooldown if there's a fight waiting for you up there. Are these the buffs she needs? I dunno, but they're both a bit more utility and I prefer buffs that add stuff like that instead of just making her do more damage or whatever. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 22:35
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Verranicus posted:Goons, don't randomly invite me to a group with you and maybe one other person and then queue. When I say LFG I mean I want to look for a full group. God bless. Groups kind of need to start somewhere but yeah, it should probably wait for a full group.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:36
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Strobe posted:It's comfortable, familiar, and doesn't have any hard counters. It's hard to be bad at S76. What I don't understand are people who are really really good at him. It's pretty common that I'll see someone in a kill-cam doing at least twice the damage per second I'm capable of laying out with him and I straight up don't understand why. My best guess is that I'm letting go of the fire button too long to get my accuracy back--I assumed it had cooldown time instead of being instant and I haven't tried him since then.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:38
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ImpAtom posted:Groups kind of need to start somewhere but yeah, it should probably wait for a full group. No I have no issues waiting to fill up, just recently I've been added by like 2 people and queued instantly without them even giving me a chance to look in Discord for more.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:38
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OtspIII posted:My best guess is that I'm letting go of the fire button too long to get my accuracy back--I assumed it had cooldown time instead of being instant and I haven't tried him since then. It's instant to the point that people have 4-shot burst macros that flutter the trigger for an instant after the fourth which leads to having 100% accuracy with no appreciable loss in ROF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqXydfeSofY E: Oh wait you knew that, I misread a little. Meh.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:43
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NmareBfly posted:It's instant to the point that people have 4-shot burst macros that flutter the trigger for an instant after the fourth which leads to having 100% accuracy with no appreciable loss in ROF. Isn't using macros bannable? Can't wait for another banwave (for people that macro things instead of just doing them by hand that is) 
Zoness fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 22:47
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NmareBfly posted:It's instant to the point that people have 4-shot burst macros that flutter the trigger for an instant after the fourth which leads to having 100% accuracy with no appreciable loss in ROF. There is a macro, but it's less of an advantage than you might think: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4rec8y/dear_reddit_soldier_76s_gun_is_not_broken_and/
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Jul 7, 2016 22:47
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Kerrrrrrr posted:just buff junkrat  [x] 
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Jul 7, 2016 22:52
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NmareBfly posted:I know both these things. Movement abilities kind of have to be balanced in addition to various other things, because the vertical space is very important in Overwatch too. The reason why high mobility characters are so good is because they can take routes that bypass a lot of defences or attack from unexpected angles. I don't really think Mei needs this, since she's not a flanker and not really a mobile character. There are some places Mei can get to, there are others that she can't. There are some that she can get to but require a bit of work. Plus you have to imagine that the utility of this would affect other characters aswell, because Mei can boost them too. Rush Limbo fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 23:11
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Proposition Joe posted:I remember them saying that they wouldn't be adding single new heroes but instead release new heroes in batches, so we'll probably be getting Sombra at the end of the year in a big hero update that adds a few different sorts of heroes and deletes Hanzo forever, which would be good. Haha, imagine if they actually released story cinematics where heroes are killed and from that point onward will no longer be available in game. drat, the real money lootboxes are the only thing shutting down this option. People would get so frothy around the mouth if their paid for skins would vanish into the ether.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:21
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I've lost the ability to speak using voice chat. I can enter the voice chat channel and listen to other people but when I press my keybind I only hear the 'cling' sound, nothing else happens. My icon doesn't appear and nobody can hear me. I've tested my mic using other coms outside of the game and it works fine. I've changed keybinds, turned it off and on, tried different options in the menu such as auto join, etc. I've tried pretty much everything I could think of. Is there anyone else who had to deal with the same issue?
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Jul 7, 2016 23:26
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I'm sorry, but what is the justification for a team taking a loss and losing Rank points after a team mate leaves?
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Jul 8, 2016 00:02
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Several of my friends have been talking up Overwatch. Not sure it's my kind of game though. My favorite FPS of all time was Bad Company 2, with a close second being the Left 4 Dead series. Very different styles of game, I think. Any character suggestions for Overwatch that might get close to the flow (movement physics, kit, etc.) of playing BC2 or L4D?
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Jul 8, 2016 00:03
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BigRed0427 posted:I'm sorry, but what is the justification for a team taking a loss and losing Rank points after a team mate leaves? If the leaver's team could avoid the loss, then stacks would be incentivized to cycle out which teammate leaves a losing match, so that the five others could avoid the loss.
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Jul 8, 2016 00:06
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BigRed0427 posted:I'm sorry, but what is the justification for a team taking a loss and losing Rank points after a team mate leaves? Because if they didn't then as soon as a team started to lose ground it'd turn into a griefing competition from hell to get the first person to leave and eat the penalty so everyone else could duck the loss entirely.
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Jul 8, 2016 00:07
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BigRed0427 posted:I'm sorry, but what is the justification for a team taking a loss and losing Rank points after a team mate leaves? Blizzard says it's to avoid strategic leaving. For instance, a coordinated team could have a teammate leave whenever they're on the losing side, continually cycling which one takes the fall, so only one player gets dinged with a loss instead of all 6. Or, a particularly rowdy pug might start hurling abuse at a player until they drop out and the rest of the team can leave with no penalty. These are definitely potential problem behaviours, but I still think with a little ingenuinity Blizzard can find a way to curb these tactics without leavers' teammates getting screwed over as much as they are now.
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Jul 8, 2016 00:11
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Corbeau posted:Several of my friends have been talking up Overwatch. Not sure it's my kind of game though. My favorite FPS of all time was Bad Company 2, with a close second being the Left 4 Dead series. Very different styles of game, I think. Any character suggestions for Overwatch that might get close to the flow (movement physics, kit, etc.) of playing BC2 or L4D? It's more like TF2. Quite different.
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Jul 8, 2016 00:14
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loses don't matter after your placement matches are done anyway if someone leaves the game and you don't want to play a man down, just leave during the grace period where you don't get a leaver penalty
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Jul 8, 2016 00:15
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Manatee Cannon posted:loses don't matter after your placement matches are done anyway I don't know what you mean by this. Why would they matter any more or less during placement VS after placement? During placement, they affect your rank invisibly. After placement, they affect it visibly.
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Jul 8, 2016 00:21
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