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Ligur posted:Like waitwhatno says it's just hype, but he forgot to add Eurocrats and their political cronies indulge in it. They try to scare everyone into believing just about anything that goes against what they say: apocalypse!!1 Honestly, everything from restoring temporary border controls to a 5 kilometer strip to quitting the whole Union is painted, like you say, a horrid unrecoverable crisis (then the sky doesn't fall after all). I more meant that nobody seems to adhere to policy once it's set. Seems like a constant negotiation, like the constitution doesn't work well or has no legitimacy. Guess that might be normal for a horizontal organization.
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Jul 5, 2016 15:25
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Riso posted:Same day Austria votes again on its president. Make the Austro-Hungarian Republic great again.
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Jul 5, 2016 16:14
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orange sky posted:Grey line Make rules Add one billion exceptions Regards, the French
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Jul 5, 2016 17:13
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The 35 hours work week was the last time in French history a measure actually reduced unemployment. So ever since then, both the right and the right-in-left's-clothing have tried to get rid of it. Since they couldn't just simply roll it back, they just defanged it as much as possible by adding tons of derogations and by making overtime pay less.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:43
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Arglebargle III posted:I more meant that nobody seems to adhere to policy once it's set. Seems like a constant negotiation, like the constitution doesn't work well or has no legitimacy. Guess that might be normal for a horizontal organization. Yeah most of the time nobody gives a poo poo if something is hard to implement locally or just sounds like it sucks or is expensive vs what it brings back. You can easily just ignore stuff that is agreed on and simply not do it. What can EU do? They have no divisions to send your way after all? All they can do is negotiate more. The unhappy case is, they are still a huge money sink, and we have ECB and so on, so if you completely burn your economy to the ground or cook the books they can cut off the lifeline. Finland is exception though: our politicians and goverment officials do everything by the book and follow the German example to the T otherwise, but that is an exception that confirms the rule... sigh. Ligur fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 20:46
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Spain and Portugal may be the first EU member states to be hit with fines for failing to comply with the deficit rulesquote:Spain and Portugal were hit by a European Union move to fine them for breaching budget deficit limits in an unprecedented step to enforce rules designed to avert another debt crisis. The member states can still overturn the sanctions, but as a result of the tightening of the Stability and Growth Pact they now need a qualified majority to stop the sanctions rather than a majority to approve them. Obviously fines aren't going to help Spain and Portugal meet the deficit targets, but rules are rules, I guess. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 19:49
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Yeah this makes sense. "Do X, it'll work, for sure, or no more help for you" *Does X, didn't work* "Oh it didn't work? Too bad, here's a fine"
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Jul 7, 2016 20:03
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If the sanctions go through I'll vote yes on a referendum to leave. And I'm the most pro-EU person I know!
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Jul 7, 2016 20:07
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KoldPT posted:If the sanctions go through I'll vote yes on a referendum to leave. And I'm the most pro-EU person I know! Costa do pull a Cameron and to keep goverment going gives in to BE and PCP a proposes a simple in/out referendum. Cumprir o V Império!
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Jul 7, 2016 20:32
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This will surely go over really well
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Jul 7, 2016 20:35
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Spain and Portugal may be the first EU member states to be hit with fines for failing to comply with the deficit rules It's amazing really, 'oh that deficit troubling you? Here, have some more deficit as we fine your rear end'. 
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Jul 7, 2016 20:47
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The whole policy of fining people for not having enough money is so astoundingly stupid it can only have been dreamed up by an ordoliberal. “When I look at the numbers I really have to conclude that Spain and Portugal did too little.” Yeah, you loving little piece of poo poo, you look at the numbers and only the numbers. Not the causes of why the numbers are how they are. You know why the numbers are what they are? It's not because Spain and Portugal did too little, it's because they did too much.
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Jul 7, 2016 20:50
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Well to be fair, to say nothing regarding the rules themselves it is kind of hard to impose a penalty for rule transgressions that is not straight up an even lesser democratic influence for the offending country.
Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 21:02
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Cat Mattress posted:The whole policy of fining people for not having enough money is so astoundingly stupid it can only have been dreamed up by an ordoliberal. To be "fair" this is basically the right-wing's endgame build. They powerleveled super hard to reach this point and with their bonuses are getting closer to the enviable end of the Right-Wing Tech Tree: Literally Shadowrun visit me at lovely analogies dot com for more incredible insight Also who do they expect to pay for things? The rich? (Parliament pauses for laugh track, gets absolute silence, continues like they had received roaring applause)
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Jul 7, 2016 21:03
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If the rule is not enforced remove it completely. It cannot be just ignored again.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:04
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What are the stipulations in case Portugal and Spain simply refuse to pay the fines?
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Jul 7, 2016 21:10
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YF-23 posted:What are the stipulations in case Portugal and Spain simply refuse to pay the fines? Reduce the EU funding they receive.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:11
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I mean technically that's all true but even the most blind commissioner must realise that in doing so they're cutting off the branch the EU is sitting on. Europe is already widely unpopular and now you want to make yourself even more of an rear end in a top hat? Come on.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:19
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double nine posted:I mean technically that's all true but even the most blind commissioner must realise that in doing so they're cutting off the branch the EU is sitting on. Europe is already widely unpopular and now you want to make yourself even more of an rear end in a top hat? Come on. i'm sorry could you reword this statement in the form of a profit graph, I cannot see or imagine anything except numbers. What's all this "dire long-term consequences for this moronic short-term profit obsession" bullshit, I meant numbers for RIGHT NOW. Get this poo poo off of my desk.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:26
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doverhog posted:If the rule is not enforced remove it completely. Since the rule in question is stupid, yes, it should be removed entirely, and it should never have existed in the first place.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:44
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Wasn't Germany the first to break the fiscal pact and tell the rest to go gently caress off? Or was it France?
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Jul 7, 2016 21:46
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Cat Mattress posted:Since the rule in question is stupid, yes, it should be removed entirely, and it should never have existed in the first place. That might be true. The options tho should be enforcement or removal, not an exception to it.
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Jul 7, 2016 21:57
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Riso posted:Wasn't Germany the first to break the fiscal pact and tell the rest to go gently caress off? Or was it France? Much harder to fine the countries that contribute most of the EU budget vs countries which have been net recipients of EU funds for decades. "gently caress off, I'm not paying" means a lot more when it comes from someone who was actually paying at some point.
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Jul 7, 2016 23:49
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I love that in your maths economy never counts. Nevermind that Germany gets the best out of every economic deal and profits out of what the others are paying. Nevermind the salary differences between all countries. Nevermind the huge brain drain the richest countries have inflicted on all the others, due to industry and investigation being extremely tilted. Nevermind that due to higher and higher taxes in austerity the companies are fleeing the poor countries and paying taxes in the richest ones. They should just pay what they owe and shut the gently caress up! Sad!
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Jul 8, 2016 08:17
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You forget to whom you are speaking
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Jul 8, 2016 08:24
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orange sky posted:Germany gets the best out of every economic deal and profits out of what the others are paying Germany was doing so well in the 1990s that they were called "the sick man of Europe"... I guess the first 40 years of the EU/EEC don't count?
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Jul 8, 2016 08:26
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Shazback posted:Germany was doing so well in the 1990s that they were called "the sick man of Europe"... I guess the first 40 years of the EU/EEC don't count? Yes Germany in the 90's, I wonder what happened during it. A mystery I'm sure.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:36
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To the people who want the Stability and Growth Pact abolished: How would you ensure that Euro countries will stay solvent in the future?
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Jul 8, 2016 08:48
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Go back to individual currencies again by giving up on the Eurozone, problem solved.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:53
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GaussianCopula posted:To the people who want the Stability and Growth Pact abolished: How would you ensure that Euro countries will stay solvent in the future? Reforms to change the way states borrow money. Also solvency is overrated. Just look at the US debt.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:56
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The Euro is stupid unless you allow fiscal transfers or come up with a way to allow eurozone members to implement monetary policy to control their money supply. The former wont happen and the latter is going back to individual currencies.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:57
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Cat Mattress posted:Reforms to change the way states borrow money. How exactly would you reform it? I guess you could force banks to no longer view sovereign debt as riskless assets, but that would wreck the banking system, especially in the South, at this point.
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Jul 8, 2016 08:59
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awesome-express posted:The Euro is stupid unless you allow fiscal transfers or come up with a way to allow eurozone members to implement monetary policy to control their money supply. The former wont happen and the latter is going back to individual currencies. I swear loving Germany, they might not be solely responsible for creating this shitstain of a situation but drat if they aren't doing their best to make it worse.
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Jul 8, 2016 09:00
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MiddleOne posted:I swear loving Germany, they might not be solely responsible for creating this shitstain of a situation but drat if they aren't doing their best to make it worse. What is the rational argument you can make to the German public why they should subsidize other countries even more without having any direct control over their policies?
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Jul 8, 2016 09:07
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GaussianCopula posted:without having any direct control over their policies? You kind of do.
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Jul 8, 2016 09:08
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orange sky posted:You kind of do. No. Look at the current situation in Greece, it would look very different if the German government had direct control.
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Jul 8, 2016 09:09
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GaussianCopula posted:What is the rational argument you can make to the German public why they should subsidize other countries even more without having any direct control over their policies? The EU gives Germany more power and control over Europe than they would have without it, and the EU cannot exist without subsidies. How's that?
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Jul 8, 2016 09:12
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doverhog posted:The EU gives Germany more power and control over Europe than they would have without it, and the EU cannot exist without subsidies. How's that? But that doesn't personally directly give me a bigger number in the bank account 
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Jul 8, 2016 09:22
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
doverhog posted:The EU gives Germany more power and control over Europe than they would have without it, and the EU cannot exist without subsidies. How's that? Germany has less power than Malta relative to it's size in the EU, so I would argue that Malta's boost in power through the EU is even larger than the boost Germany gets (btw. this is true for all countries in the EU).
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Jul 8, 2016 09:34
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Relative size, who cares, Germany still has the most.
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Jul 8, 2016 09:36
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