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Those morats are awesome
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Jul 6, 2016 00:08
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dexefiend posted:Not having access to the 4 or 5 man bonuses can hurt a little. My biggest gripe is the 4-2 movement of their only MSV2 or higher profile. Makeuls throwing eclipse/zero-v smoke go a long way to managing this. Sure, there's no smoke/sniper shenanigans, but instead you just put up a wall and do whatever you want.
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Jul 6, 2016 01:56
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Vedic sectorial confirmed! wooooo
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Jul 6, 2016 02:10
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Sanguine posted:Makeuls throwing eclipse/zero-v smoke go a long way to managing this. Sure, there's no smoke/sniper shenanigans, but instead you just put up a wall and do whatever you want. That is what i did, but the Nikoul was dead. It took 4 orders to kill him. I ended up winning. I brought Viral Rasail, Hatail Keesan with K1, 2 Kosuils with K1, 2 Viral Sakiels, some Makauls, the Nikoul, and the Kotail with a Spitfire. Viral And K1 combis are sooooo goooooood.
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Jul 6, 2016 02:14
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Sanguine posted:Makeuls throwing eclipse/zero-v smoke go a long way to managing this. Sure, there's no smoke/sniper shenanigans, but instead you just put up a wall and do whatever you want. So the +1B from being in a 3 man link team lets you throw two of those grenades, right?
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Jul 6, 2016 03:22
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I asked around here for some questions for a Bostria interview some time ago. Said interview is finally up! http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/07/infinity-developer-interview-with-carlos-bostria.html
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Jul 6, 2016 08:08
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Not a viking posted:drat auto correct! That's actually what my local meta calls him.
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Jul 6, 2016 10:35
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Got to play today for the first time in ages, wrote up a new YJ list to enjoy the new rules, and had a few hiccups, apparently the army builder doesn't mind if you take more than the ava limit of troops, and once again wasn't nearly aggressive enough. But having fixed that issue, I'm kind of left with another; how many order peons is too many? Keisotsu are so cheap, but I kind of find myself spending about 1/4th of my total points on them, is that too many? I can't escape the thought that a veritable shitload of forward observers is useful, but then they sit in my backfield, watching each other in case of paratroops/infiltrators. It's great to be able to pour a bunch of orders into the Yan Huo or Ninjas so they can go to work (and oh my god, killer hacking devices are incredible), but I can't escape the feeling that I'm over-investing in these big units, which aren't invincible. Edit: Just running regular YJ, with an eye for JSA. Unrelatedly, how do you guys set up your tables? The guy who sets up ours at the local club loves his big sniper towers in deployment zones that can see 75% of the board, and I find it difficult to shift those MSV2 Multi-Sniper/Total Reaction bastards, any advice? Cassa fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 10:59
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We make sure that there isn't a spot where you can see most of the opponents DZ, let there be at least two long fire lanes at good spots, make sure that there are some parts of the board with long fire lanes, but also a way to get to them with close range troops. Sounds like your opponent has a hard-on for snipers and need to be told not to do that poo poo. At least make sure that the spot isn't covering 75% of the whole table. Take a look in the rules, there are some examples there. That said, coordinated orders makes sure that he can only ARO at one model and the other three will be unoposed.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:17
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Cassa posted:Unrelatedly, how do you guys set up your tables? The guy who sets up ours at the local club loves his big sniper towers in deployment zones that can see 75% of the board, and I find it difficult to shift those MSV2 Multi-Sniper/Total Reaction bastards, any advice? Choose deployment, take the zone with the sniper tower. Alternatively, you've got the first turn and can either kill the sniper with appropriate offensive piece (possibly with MSV) or block the sniper spot with a preemptive smoke screen and do your mission. If both zones have sniper towers, shuffle the terrain until they don't. It's gonna be a boring game otherwise. And total reaction models die to TO camo snipers, with a -12 mod they can't do poo poo. Pierzak fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 14:41
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Cassa posted:Got to play today for the first time in ages, wrote up a new YJ list to enjoy the new rules, and had a few hiccups, apparently the army builder doesn't mind if you take more than the ava limit of troops, and once again wasn't nearly aggressive enough. Play Alpeh, bring Albedo and laugh? Or just ask him to let you setup the playing field and as a situplation no sniper tower in a deployment zone. I also like ITS deployment where there is an objective room in the middle that has infinite height.
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Jul 6, 2016 15:31
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Exmond posted:Play Alpeh, bring Albedo and laugh? Play CA, bring an Overdron with albedo and 2 plasma sniper rifles. 
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Jul 6, 2016 16:13
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Sniper towers that can see most of the table can be seen by most of the table. They really only screw impetuous models, as a sniper with that much visibility will get put down hard by a HMG turn one. Even a counter snipe is going to give it problems with two dice to one. The art of sniper placement is to get them somewhere where they can see an objective or a critical slice of a movement corridor, but in such a way that the other guy's HMGs and snipers have to spend a lot of orders to engage them.
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Jul 6, 2016 17:07
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Which is also why it's often a good idea to keep either your sniper or your MSV HMG as your reserve model during deployment.
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Jul 6, 2016 18:00
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We tend to put our big, LOS-blocking poo poo in the middle of the board. I also typically try to set things up such that even on the edges of the board, you can't see all the way across it (either forward/backward in the case of the side edges or laterally in the case of deployment edges). I'll occasionally put in a big sniper tower in one of the deployment/forward zones, but if I do I almost always put a ton of scatter terrain opposite it such that models can Cautious Move to approach it from at least one direction. The last two games we've done were heavily wilderness-based, so lots of difficult terrain, low-vis, and saturation zones got used. The interesting thing about woods is that even if you can see through it, the modifiers to visibility and burst really affect things in cool ways. They make AROs much more powerful relative to active shooting (because saturation zones can't modify Burst below 1), yet at the same time reduce the potency of TR bots and the like - all of which is interesting. It makes maneuver and ambush (in the form of hidden deployment) a lot more important. We didn't have a lot of MSV-toting troops walking around, but most of those weapons will be limited to B1 regardless, so they didn't seem overly powerful even when ignoring the visibility modifiers. We considered a house rule such that looking through two separate areas of low-vis would break LOS, but it never really proved to be a problem, at least in our games. Boards like this are cool because they give Terrain/Multiterrain models an important maneuver boost, and they make melee-heavy troops terrifying. My opponent (playing Caledonians) did grievous harm to me with his Cameronian, who came blasting out of the dense woods and deep into my forward zone like a chain-rifle-wielding freight train. Those tables were radically different from the kind of urban landscapes you typically see in Infinity, but were really interesting and a lot of fun. I took a couple of pictures of the last game, I'll try to post them tonight.
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Jul 6, 2016 19:11
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So a while back, someone asked about what weapons and gimmicks O-12 might have. Reading the preview materials for weapons and armor for the Infinity RPG, I've found some interesting notes. O-12's equipment is basically a blend of all the factions' second-line equipment, plus ALEPH's optimizations and heavy support. So I suspect that an O-12 army is going to have a little bit of everything. Their armor is apparently fairly high-tech with better-than-normal BTS ratings. Looking at ALEPH units, they seem to use O-12 body armor, so this means that I suspect O-12 units will also have higher-than-normal ARM ratings (so lots of 2-ARM LI a la Daevas and the like). The standard O-12 sidearm is apparently a MULTI Pistol. I'm guessing it's going to be a standard Pistol which can fire Light MULTI ammo-AP/Shock at full or DA. ALEPH has apparently developed a Smart Grenade Launcher for O-12, which means I suspect that'll show up on some of their units. So if I had to take a guess, I'd say probably access to ALEPH units like the ISS, with a mishmash of factional-styled troopers but leaning more towards ALEPH-style heavy use of special abilities, with good BTS and ARM overall but probably less access to Concilium-violating weapons and equipment, and more access than any other faction to the Smart Grenade Launcher and MULTI Pistol, which I'm guessing will show up in Acheron Falls. MJ12 fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 09:46
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Ilor posted:We tend to put our big, LOS-blocking poo poo in the middle of the board. I also typically try to set things up such that even on the edges of the board, you can't see all the way across it (either forward/backward in the case of the side edges or laterally in the case of deployment edges). I'll occasionally put in a big sniper tower in one of the deployment/forward zones, but if I do I almost always put a ton of scatter terrain opposite it such that models can Cautious Move to approach it from at least one direction. Really good thoughts on the matter. I like the attention to being able to do cautious moves etc. I see way too many tables where there is cover, but also huge areas of open ground, models just deploy behind something and pop out to shoot occasionally. MJ12 posted:So a while back, someone asked about what weapons and gimmicks O-12 might have. Reading the preview materials for weapons and armor for the Infinity RPG, I've found some interesting notes. Not to crush your enthusiasm, but I think (and hope) they are a long way off adding a new army to the game. So much of the Infinity community is raving about XX Sectorial (Tunguska for Nomads, Invincible Army for Yu Jing etc) which is understandable, people like new stuff and want to see the next thing. But I take the opposite view that at some point the game has to stop accumulating options and go into a holding cycle of resculpting and rehauling existing units/concepts. I see 8 factions on the Army builder, with a further 16 sectorial armies. We can reasonably expect a good 8 or so more sectorials that are already planned - at a minimum. That's already a hell of a lot to balance and to keep current. I dread a WH40k situation where there are too many factions in the game, half of them are red-headed stepchildren at any one time, everyone clamours for their turn at the new release schedule, etc. Why do we all need new factions when half the models in the line are thoroughly out-classed by new stuff and could be re-done?
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Jul 8, 2016 09:19
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O-12 would be a crap addition if you ask me. Keep them as the space UN and leave them at that. We don't need them as a force in the game, just as a background organization for mission and scenario context at most.
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Jul 8, 2016 11:08
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Man i'm thinking about a more horde-y tohaa, using 3-man link teams to make lesser troops effective along with their super smoke. Too bad the Tohaa TAG looks like it kinda sucks.
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Jul 8, 2016 11:59
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Its better than what the forums say about it, esp in N3. It got poo poo talked for ages and some dude trounced an entire tournament with one, but it isn't exactly winning any awards.
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Jul 8, 2016 15:36
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Thank you all for board advice,really taken it on and it's lead to some much more enjoyable games. Knife fighting with chain rifles, and being able to cautious movement ahead.quote:Invincible Army for Yu Jing Ooh, tell me more.
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Jul 8, 2016 15:59
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OK, here are couple of our wilderness-style tables: This one has a cabin, barn, fenced yard, and an old truck parked out back as the only man-made structures. Well, and the satellite dish, but if this is the remote dacha of a high-ranking Ariadnan cabinet minister or retired general, he's going to want his Netflix and Aristeia. Most of the rock features are tall enough to block line of sight. There's one long fire-lane (which saw his Uragan Traktor Mul and my ML Janissary duking it out early on), but everything else is pretty obstructed.  This one was interesting because one side was much less wooded than the other, with a more open back-field. Again note the presence of lots of LOS-blocking stuff along the center-line of the board. There's a bit of a fire lane alongside the building here, but there's elevation-related cover in one deployment zone and woods in the other, both providing some protection.  In this image you can see that the forested regions go all the way to the lateral edges of the board, and while they still allow LOS, the visibility and saturation effects make them a major obstacle to shooting. Given the remoteness of this location, we treated all woods as very difficult terrain (use second movement value only, no move-move allowed), low visibility(+6 mod to shooting), and heavy saturation (-2 Burst) zones. From the front side, you can see the board's theme more clearly - a remote mining operation, perhaps a small sand or gravel pit to support some other construction elsewhere. For this mission, we rolled a 20x20 Mission with the primary objective being "Alien Artifact" - clearly the narrative here was that the workers inadvertently dug up something strange in the gravel pit, which was then stored in crates and under tarps behind the mining office until the authorities arrived to deal with it. Cue covert actions.  This is just after my opponent's Cameronian finally went down. He came super-jumping over the wooded hill (super-jump is a fantastic way to move through woods, as it turns out) and laid waste to my main line - I had taken 5 or 6 Halqa in this mission, so I was deployed pretty far forward from the start. By this point the Cameronian had killed two outright and knocked a third unconscious, I think. My Halqa Doctor-Plus was the MVP of this game, shuttling back and forth to keep my remaining cheerleaders and my Halqa Hacker (who was examining the alien artifact every turn) on their feet. In the foreground you can see my TR bot and Najjarun Engineer (who is looking backwards to cover this side's very open and exposed rear table edge). Way in the background you can see my Hassassin Fiday, although by this point he's KO'd. I successfully deployed and stealthed up behind one of his dudes, even knifed him in the head. Alas, he made his ARM roll and warned his friends, mostly because I forgot about the ability of Martial Arts to add +3 to my Strength. Whoops, won't make that mistake again. But had I killed him, I could have daisy-chained to two or three more (including his Lieutenant), staying out of LOS the whole time. Methinks my opponent will have more guys watching the back from here on out.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:56
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I can't imaging playing on those tables with my area's group. Especially that first table, the big lane between the rocks and the truck would just be an insane war of attrition.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:50
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I think metas eventually graduate to just throwing a smoke grenade and getting poo poo done.
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Jul 8, 2016 22:11
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I just wish you could throw smoke grenades against walls. I mean, really put the infinite height to good use!
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Jul 8, 2016 23:19
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Or Cautious Move, or AD troops to harass the enemy covering said lane. Or you just ignore it and pick different lanes of approach. The crazy thing about these boards is that they seem both constrained and open at the same time. Once you remember that you can look through trees, stuff opens up, but once you realize you're shooting at -6 BS and -2 Burst, your shooting/ARO choices change a lot. Yeah, you can kinda see that guy, but you're rolling 1 die and needing a 3 or less to hit. Not usually super order-efficient. So instead you focus on the objectives and get to work. Like I said, boards like this are interesting because they're radically different from the typical, claustrophobic urban affair.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:27
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That is very interesting and makes me want to try a similar board next time I play. Got my mat the other day! Maybe I'll finally finish these buildings now. 
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Jul 8, 2016 23:39
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Flipswitch posted:O-12 would be a crap addition if you ask me. Keep them as the space UN and leave them at that. We don't need them as a force in the game, just as a background organization for mission and scenario context at most. I agree. Like, it makes more sense as, I dunno, a way to set up joint scenarios-i.e. a O-12 force versus the Combined Army, being an excuse for a 2v2 scenario where you have like, PanO and Yu Jing forces versus 2 CA players. But I've heard people talking about it getting its own army list and I was just going through the preview materials for the Infinity RPG, and some of the stuff seems to hint at what an O-12 force might have. At best I think O-12 would basically just be an ALEPH sectorial-like how the QK of Haqq get a lot of Nomad units and ISS gets a lot of Vedic ALEPH units O-12 would basically just get to pick and choose some signature 'elite' units from various other factions while maintaining a heavy ALEPH core-but with some of the highest-end stuff stripped out (ALEPH saves the best toys for its own ops). So kind of like Onyx Force for the CA, amusingly enough. But if they're going to make it its own army like the rumors suggest, I mean, CB's gonna do what CB does.
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Jul 9, 2016 02:55
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To be honest, some of those woodland boards seem like an example of a board where snipers would actually just poo poo all over everything, especially MSV2 snipers. As soon as you bring a Djanbazan sniper, I think things might get heated. Or imagine Atlanta sitting in cover on that table AROing the world and hitting on 20 or less, only to have a Myrmidon toss a smoke grenade on her to push it deep into -12 to hit with -3 spare padding. Or if there actually are some workable blind spots, it seems like models would have to be so packed in that one inferior infiltration USARF heavy flamer grunt or Oniwaban might be in danger of basically ending the game top of one with a template (and gently caress those guys are bad enough on a more standard table). In principle, I don't think things need to be all about narrow urban corridors, but if you are going to do a more open table, I think it might be a good idea to put a fair amount of scatter terrain out for people to at least claim partial cover from and have the option to prone behind for total cover at the cost of movement. Maybe try putting some logs, small rocks, sandbags, etc out and see if things still feel open.
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Jul 9, 2016 03:03
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Would it be better to say that lof can't be traced through the forest zones?
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Jul 9, 2016 04:47
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All these tables where you can draw a straight unobstructed line from one side to the other are giving me PTSD so thanks for that.
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Jul 9, 2016 04:50
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Not a viking posted:Would it be better to say that lof can't be traced through the forest zones? I play Haqqislam and have used a Djanbazan sniper on boards like this - it's not as overpowering as you'd think, especially considering you pretty much only ever get a single shot (in either active or reactive turn) due to the Saturation Zones. Also, there's still a fair amount of LOS blockage on the board, much of which comes from elevation features. Even a Djanbazan HMG isn't nearly as effective here as I've seen it on more urbanized boards. And I'm not saying it's better or worse, it's just different. It requires different approaches and different types of troops than you might otherwise use, which is kind of cool in and of itself.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:36
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A board full of low vis/burst reduction is a really nice change from the usual urban stuff for sure. Playing around with three lists, current core is a wu ming fireteam, sophotect as the cautious advance medic/engineer. But I'm not happy with the rest of the list. Version A  9  HSIEN Lieutenant HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39) WÚ MÍNG Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── Version B 9 ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZHÀNYING Missile Launcher, Nanopulser, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28) IMPERIAL AGENT (Multispectral Visor L1, Marksmanship LX) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65)4 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── Alternatively; Celestial Guard subbing in instead of Wu Ming GROUP 1  5 KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32) HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)GROUP 2 7  2 IMPERIAL AGENT Lieutenant (Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) CELESTIAL GUARD MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Took version A for a run on this board, played Biotechvore, and gotta love HI in that mission. 
Cassa fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 08:55
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dishwasherlove posted:All these tables where you can draw a straight unobstructed line from one side to the other are giving me PTSD so thanks for that. Are you referring to the one I posted? Because there is exactly one lane between DZs and its filled with scatter terrain. The street running from left to right here is partially blocked by a wreckage you can't see on the photo so its only a very narrow corridor between that and the sign  Red are long firelanes Yellow are medium firelanes Green are short lanes or ways for warbands to advance to outlfank 
Not a viking fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 11:19
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Just generally but I see you have thought about this a lot, and I commend you for it. (I didn't notice the scatter terrain under the overpass)
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Jul 9, 2016 12:51
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Is there a good way to play Infinity via computer? Minis are expensive and we can't download them (yet.)
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Jul 9, 2016 23:01
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ReadingZucchini posted:Is there a good way to play Infinity via computer? Minis are expensive and we can't download them (yet.) None exists, to my knowledge. It would be possible to create, but more difficult than for most other minis games due to the heavy emphasis on 3-dimensional play, the influence of good board design on the game, and the constant back-and-forth of the order and ARO system.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:42
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ReadingZucchini posted:Is there a good way to play Infinity via computer? Minis are expensive and we can't download them (yet.) I think it would be pretty easy to proxy with folded paper cutouts and properly sized bases, especially since they'd help visualize model silhouettes. Something like the Guild Ball paper dolls would be particularly nice.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:48
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Oh, yeah, if budget is your concern then you can literally play with small dowels of the right dimensions for unit silhouettes. Someone actually posted a really funny battle report of that back when N3 came out.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:57
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I'm going in. I just bought a lot including every tohaa unit, some painted, all primed for 300 bucks.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:46
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