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In the xmen comics a lot of the allegory about mutants being an unjustly persecuted minority always fell flat for me. Even as a kid I felt like someone who can read and control minds, or has a loaded bazooka for an arm is someone the government should be keeping track of. Similarly this scene just falls flat on it's face. Body image issues exist, but nobody who believes that they're ugly no-matter-what is an actual 10 foot tall orange ogre covered in razors. And then you have a gas cloud complaining about how the word "body" marginalizes her, after having a rhinosaurus looking woman yell at a porn star about body image. It's so absurd I'm really struggling to take it seriously, and the comic wants very much to be serious.
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Jul 8, 2016 11:17
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trigger warning: bodies
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Jul 8, 2016 12:27
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Galvanik posted:a rhinosaurus looking woman yell at a porn star about body image.
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Jul 8, 2016 14:45
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This must be a parody at this point, it's dumber than Raine Dog.
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Jul 8, 2016 15:00
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Galvanik posted:In the xmen comics a lot of the allegory about mutants being an unjustly persecuted minority always fell flat for me. Even as a kid I felt like someone who can read and control minds, or has a loaded bazooka for an arm is someone the government should be keeping track of. This is well said. The body thing, especially, just blows me away. I cannot get my head around how that word could be offensive or outdated. There have been incorporeal people for like 20 years in this comic. And how could its use make this person feel unsafe? I get how it would suck to not have a body when everyone else has one, but I don' think that confers a right to decide how everyone else refers to their bodies.
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Jul 8, 2016 15:05
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Wittgen posted:There have been incorporeal people They prefer the term "Spectral-Americans." It's funny how this comic seems to be confirming the worst stereotypes of the very ideals it purports to examine.
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Jul 8, 2016 15:11
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Wittgen posted:And how could its use make this person feel unsafe? That's largely what makes it read like a parody to me. If Tina in the Tin Can had said something like how it makes her feel excluded, or not listened to, or that this whole thing is irrelevant to her, then it'd make sense. If she said it was a constant reminder of what she lost, it'd make sense as well. But they went for "safe". Since we have no reason to know how and why the word "body" would make her feel threatened, it just makes the whole scene insincere. And the linguistic contortions the other characters go through afterwards just increase the ridiculousness.
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Jul 8, 2016 16:13
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I am starting to sympathize with whomever is targeting and killing the mutants in this comic.
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Jul 8, 2016 16:27
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This is a truly bizarre conversation to overhear.
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Jul 8, 2016 16:36
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You know I've said it before, but I'm reminded that they managed to make the strawman dudebro flame guy one of the better characters in the comic because they spent the bare minimum trying to make him sympathetic and it actually succeeded in making him come across as subtle and nuanced and human. I think the biggest flaw in this comic is that they so desperately want to get a message across that they overwrite the hell out of their big scenes and it gives readers very little to actually engage with. I think the SAT word I would use to describe this comic is "didactic".
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Jul 8, 2016 16:36
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Yeah, I lost all hope for this scene once the words "safe" and "triggered" came out, then everyone started dancing around the subject of that-which-must-not-be-spoken. Being excluded from a group that is already excluded is a big thing that the author could have brought good attention to, but now it just sounds like parody. Say better words, fart cloud lady! Words like "excluded" or "unwelcome" or even "ignored". Because those are the emotions you are feeling, not some generic "triggered" or "unsafe" condition, and then people around you can make reasonable decisions about how to make you feel less bad. I bet fart cloud lady was added solely to have a CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE scene in a discussion group for people who are already unprivileged, since we need to go balls-deep on the "there are people in disadvantaged groups who are even more disadvantaged" thing, even though we're already 3+ levels deep in the disadvantage pile.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:19
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Next page is a hivemind of insects stating she is feels unsafe by the use of the word "being" as a singular.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:30
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I think there's a point to be made still--namely that playing Oppression Olympics doesn't help anybody and just fractures people who should be able to unite for a common cause--but I don't have much faith that this is going to pull through. It's a shame considering how the arc's gone fairly well up to this point.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:36
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The Lord of Hats posted:I think there's a point to be made still--namely that playing Oppression Olympics doesn't help anybody and just fractures people who should be able to unite for a common cause OK wait scratch what I said before next page is going to be Allison interjecting to badly attempt to make this point.
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Jul 8, 2016 18:49
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But not before a cooperative mass of sentient amoebas checks the privilege of all the eukaryotes in the room and their insensitivity towards trans-cellular entities.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:00
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I would love it if this ended with Alison snapping and turning full Randroid.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:09
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Be sure to read the comments. Even a lot of the fans are 'Eerrrhhhhmmmmm.......'
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Jul 8, 2016 19:52
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I'm starting to feel like the actual situation here is less weird than the writing. I can completely believe that Tina - who, let's remember, was by inexplicable act of god violently and abruptly transmuted in to a slime that apparently needs mechanical assistance to speak and move, akin to a paralyzed person dependent on a wheelchair and a communication aid - would want them to not use the word 'body'. This isn't a therapy session, this is a support group. They're not looking to grow through adversity here, they're looking for a place of safety and solace. Some of their wants and needs are going to be bizarre from our perspective. The thing that bewilders me the most is how completely effortless it comes off as, when I can't imagine this would go so very, very smoothly.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:26
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Lady, you're a body....of water...or gas, it could be either, the art's a bit ambiguous. But seriously, you're putting people who are severely impaired from their condition in the same room with people who just look a little funny. I wouldn't be surprised if the girl who just had the outburst there just up and left during the asari's page-long discussion about not saying the word "body" in reference to their horribly disfigured bodies. God almighty, this is insufferable.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:56
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I think it's a really weird situation, and I'm actually interested in reading a few more pages of the, "Don't look at me, I'm a monster" support group. But the real value is in the commentsquote:Wow, the comments are especially terrible today. So many men mansplaining what a body is and having no clue of what support groups are actually like. This is saddening. Oh my god.
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Jul 8, 2016 22:18
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This is loving awful and kind of offensive. I was interested in where it was going but its so badly done that it just become offensive.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:07
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It's worth considering - this only just occurred to me - if anyone has a right to claim 'trigger warnings', its Tina. It's completely believable that she has post-traumatic stress disorder; abruptly starting to dissolve in to a mute, semi-mobile mass of shapeless moist fluid is one of the most nightmarish, kafka-esque scenarios I can imagine someone enduring. SlothfulCobra is totally right. Her problems are so much more severe than everyone else here that it's a little odd that she's even in the room for this event - but she is, so it's appropriate for the moderator to make some effort to make her welcome. Frankly, the more I think about Tina's presence here, the more uncomfortable this whole sequence makes me. If you show up to a disability support group, and you have no legs, and someone in the room is talking unhappily about the difficulties their club foot causes them, while someone else in the room has no arms or legs and communicates using a puff-sip speech machine on a computerized wheelchair... What a loving minefield of faux pas waiting to happen.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:27
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A wispy democratic aggregate of plasma particles that can only communicate through visual pictograms formed in its clouds one-ups Tina by showing a cartoon anthropomorphized book firing a machine gun ("words are triggering me")
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Jul 9, 2016 01:00
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I think in reality, support groups members are much more ready to call someone on dumb bullshit though.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:02
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A vague emanation of outrage pours from everyone's cell phones as a heretofore imperceptible attendee who can't even manifest in the physical world is triggered by everyone rudely flaunting their matter privilege
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Jul 9, 2016 01:04
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Patrick Spens posted:I think it's a really weird situation, and I'm actually interested in reading a few more pages of the, "Don't look at me, I'm a monster" support group. But the real value is in the comments How do you mansplain a problem that doesn't exist? 
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Jul 9, 2016 01:05
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The Lord of Hats posted:I think there's a point to be made still--namely that playing Oppression Olympics doesn't help anybody and just fractures people who should be able to unite for a common cause--but I don't have much faith that this is going to pull through. It's a shame considering how the arc's gone fairly well up to this point. This would be a good point, but it doesn't feel like the comic knows that Oppression Olympics is a very real, fairly bad thing that goes on. It feels more like it's taking Oppression Olympics as the natural order of things.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:17
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ManlyGrunting posted:How do you mansplain a problem that doesn't exist? The fact it doesn't exist means that mansplaining is the only explaining of it that can happen, since no one can speak from the perspective of actually having experienced it.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:31
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ManlyGrunting posted:You know I've said it before, but I'm reminded that they managed to make the strawman dudebro flame guy one of the better characters in the comic because they spent the bare minimum trying to make him sympathetic and it actually succeeded in making him come across as subtle and nuanced and human. I think the biggest flaw in this comic is that they so desperately want to get a message across that they overwrite the hell out of their big scenes and it gives readers very little to actually engage with. I think the SAT word I would use to describe this comic is "didactic". I wanted to go for "sanctimonious" but yours is better since it doesn't seem to try and take a moral high ground unless Allison's involved. I've dipped into SFP on and off out of morbid curiosity but it seems to have the same problem on repeat - it sincerely, earnestly wants to address social issues through an offbeat superhero allegory, but unfortunately it's written by complete god damned idiots and so it constantly validates the same harmful viewpoints it tries to confront. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 01:58
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basically "Worthy" does not automatically equal "Good"
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Jul 9, 2016 02:34
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This entire discussion group sequence reads like something a crazed right winger MRA type person would write if he wanted to parody and make fun of rights activists and support groups.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:43
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And so do the comments
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Jul 9, 2016 06:45
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Hollismason posted:This is loving awful and kind of offensive. I was interested in where it was going but its so badly done that it just become offensive. Remember when everyone came to the conclusion that the crazy invisible lady who kidnapped, drugged and attempted to murder an unstable super hero on unproven suspicions, after a murder spree, was in the right and was in fact the most morally right and correct person of all? And after the guy she drugged went nuclear and broke a dam it was all just kind of blamed on him.
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Jul 9, 2016 07:22
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Somebody in the comments for this current page still defended Mary as being right.
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Jul 9, 2016 07:54
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ManlyGrunting posted:How do you mansplain a problem that doesn't exist? Look at this realnorm's contempt for the conceptfluid 
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Jul 9, 2016 09:38
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Nuebot posted:
I actually liked that bit. Not the blaming part. The whole ludicrous plan of "Ha Ha! I have captured you, now you must listen helpless to escape, for you see I have wired a bomb to your chest.....etc." Which immediately goes tits up as the confused, panicked, drug aftereffects suffering guy instinctivly starts powering up, as of course he would. An actual example of something that works in most comic books that would really horribly misfire.
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Jul 9, 2016 10:54
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She was just going to murder him anyway at the slightest hint of some kind of past sin, she admitted in conversation with Allison that she was totally fine with not being 100% sure. I mean once you've kidnapped a person, drugged them, dragged them off into a remote location, and rigged them with a bomb you're kind of obviously not planning on walking that back.
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Jul 9, 2016 11:15
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Oh absolutely. It was the total failure of the plan I was addressing.
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Jul 9, 2016 11:38
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Flesh Forge posted:Somebody in the comments for this current page still defended Mary as being right. That's amazing.
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Jul 9, 2016 12:49
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Nuebot posted:Remember when everyone came to the conclusion that the crazy invisible lady who kidnapped, drugged and attempted to murder an unstable super hero on unproven suspicions, after a murder spree, was in the right and was in fact the most morally right and correct person of all? It's especially messed up that this happens in a comic that goes out of its way to call out and dismantle victim blaming. I mean vigilantism is basically victim blaming's big angry older brother, you're justifying murder by saying to yourself that the victims had it coming. Eventually you'll start to notice that a lot of those people who had it coming have similar beliefs, or wear the same clothes, or hang out together... why bother waiting for them to do it, you already know the type. If they didn't want to get murdered they shouldn't have said it/worn it/ganged up like that, know what I mean? #marywasright #bernardgoetzit
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Jul 9, 2016 15:35
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