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Terper posted:Actually yeah isn't Delta technically still the leader of a very large terrorist group apparently dealing in human body parts? loving put him in jail for that poo poo! Honestly I wish the ending had been "Carlos puts down the gun and at the exact same moment Akane, Sigma, Phi and Junpei all grab it and shoot Delta at the exact same moment."
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Jul 8, 2016 18:26
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I've been wondering this for a while: who here was actually caught unawares by the Old Sigma twist from VLR? Because I was super suspicious of his identity from minute one, where it was established that he has no vo, he refused to appear in group shots, and in the sparse FMVs his head was very conspicuously absent. My suspicions were pretty much confirmed when the only mirror in the game was fogged up and K turned out to be somehow related to the whole thing. Admittedly I didn't see it coming that he was sort of the mastermind, but the other part of the twist I was basically waiting the whole game to happen. I'm curious if I was more suspicious than the average person here or if this was the common experience.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:29
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The protagonist in VNs having no voice acting is very, very common, so I didn't think it was that weird, same with not showing their face in scenes.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:31
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Also I didn't expect the author to essentially recycle a twist from one of his previous works.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:32
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VLR did a decent job of making it seem like the twist would be "Sigma is a robot/K is the real Sigma", so I think most people would be led up that garden path. It's been too long since I played it, though, so I no longer remember what I figured out when.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:38
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VLR was helped by making it look like the big obvious twist was that it was in the future and on the moon, which allowed the Old Sigma reveal to sneak in there if that's all you thought you were going to be hit with.
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Jul 8, 2016 19:42
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I definitely thought Sigma and Phi were robots and were jumping around timelines because they were running on the quantum computer (rather than being human and psychic). Then they went and used that deal for Sean in this one so I guess I was just one game early.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:28
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NRVNQSR posted:VLR did a decent job of making it seem like the twist would be "Sigma is a robot/K is the real Sigma", so I think most people would be led up that garden path. It's been too long since I played it, though, so I no longer remember what I figured out when. Looking back, I think VLR has much tighter control over the writing than ZTD does. I think the red herrings and player expectations are more deliberate and more managed compared to the apparent sloppiness of Delta etc etc. Seriously, why does Delta - head of Free the Soul, a very clearly bad guy organization - go through so much trouble to half-assedly kill Sir-Terrorist-Not-Appearing-In-This-Game and otherwise motivate Crash Keys to stop said unnamed terrorist? VLR already did the whole pep talk motivational bit with Old Akane's "you must save the world!" epilogue, they don't need any more motivating! And it isn't a dilemma for anyone involved to stop Delta's Radical-6 plan at the risk of letting the unnamed terrorist run around since they were going to save humanity regardless and would work on stopping that from happening anyways. Ugh the more I keep thinking about the closure of ZTD the more it feels like a train wreck instead of actually tying things up. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 20:38
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Some say that's the Uchikoshi curse. The good games don't have endings, and the games with endings aren't so good. I guess 999 mostly got away with it?
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Jul 8, 2016 20:43
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999 is still really well put together all around
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Jul 8, 2016 20:55
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Cake Attack posted:999 is still really well put together all around It's really hard to replay IMO because the writing moves at a glacial pace at times with characters reiterating the same description or explaining the obvious three times over. Still worth it for the body pasta explosion descriptions, though.
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Jul 8, 2016 20:57
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it's alright it's only like a 15 hour game you can only skip all but two of the endings if you wanted
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Jul 8, 2016 20:58
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I'm hoping the port gives real fast forward or scene skip.
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Jul 8, 2016 21:03
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VLR is the best mystery of the bunch, IMO
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Jul 8, 2016 21:33
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Jul 8, 2016 21:36
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How did Sigma/Diana know to put in the twin's birthday for the truth door? Eric/Sean were the ones to find the clue but I don't remember that ever being passed on to Sigma/Diana. I guess that also answers the question of can they shift to their transporter clones since Sigma/Diana wouldn't know about the twins in that timeline if shifting wasn't taken into account. Dimix fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 23:18
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MegaZeroX posted:What I'm saying is that perhaps the religious fanatic is a fabrication. Meaning, since Fanatic Bio R was a analogy for the religious fanatic, perhaps there is no fanatic who will destroy the world. Was that the sequel hook? What was the sequel hook exactly?
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Jul 8, 2016 23:35
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Dimix posted:How did Sigma/Diana know to put in the twin's birthday for the truth door? Eric/Sean were the ones to find the clue but I don't remember that ever being passed on to Sigma/Diana. Because Black Winkel knew.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:18
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Dimix posted:How did Sigma/Diana know to put in the twin's birthday for the truth door? Eric/Sean were the ones to find the clue but I don't remember that ever being passed on to Sigma/Diana. Reminder that the original use of the morphogenetic field was writing to and reading from it, as per the Sheldrake stuff in 999. It's just that.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:35
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The player in this game is a fourth dimensional entity that doesn't follow the rules of spacetime. This was established in the epilogue of VLR. Ever17 gives this entity a name (Blick Winkel) and involves it more explicitly in the plot. It isn't used as directly in ZTD but it's the mechanism by which information is transferred between different people.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:42
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Cyouni posted:Reminder that the original use of the morphogenetic field was writing to and reading from it, as per the Sheldrake stuff in 999. It's just that. Didn't catch that on my quick run through the wiki to catch up. I'll have to get it once it's on Steam.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:43
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Dimix posted:Didn't catch that on my quick run through the wiki to catch up. I'll have to get it once it's on Steam. Here's the LP's section for it, with the relevant part being about halfway to two-thirds of the way down.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:59
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I just finished this game. It was a good time, although the "let's save the world through the power of friendship" ending rang hollow. One thing I never really did reconcile; why were Mira and Eric involved at all? And why did Mira get a pass for being a serial killer? That was the only thing that really felt like a straight-up plot device. 999 still feels the best from a pure story standpoint. It had some actual threat to it, and the crazy reveals are an actual surprise. The kidnapped children motive is more believable than Delta's master plan to put people through the most complicated series of psychological trauma obstacle courses over the course of hundreds of years. ZTD doesn't take long before you realize you're going to pass through every option, no choice you make matters and nobody's life is in danger because almost everyone is a time-hopping, teleporting wizard. In fact, almost anything anyone does feels pointless when you can just expect some other timeline to deal with it for you. Who even cares if everyone in the world dies when we know without a doubt there's some other timeline where they don't. Still, within the context of its own story, he did a great job.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:04
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Tenmyouji has an hour-long biker analogy for you to explain why the other timelines matter even if there's still one where they don't die. As far as Mira goes, there are extra files you can read that tell you where she ends up.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:06
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I like how they more or less dropped the whole 'Espers could be nullifying my powers!' handwave they did with Clover in VLR. Team C had no trouble at all.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:09
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Chewbot posted:One thing I never really did reconcile; why were Mira and Eric involved at all? And why did Mira get a pass for being a serial killer? That was the only thing that really felt like a straight-up plot device. Mira quite literally states why she's in the game. She's serving as the pirahna in the tank full of koi, basically serving as a mechanism to agitate the other teams. Zero mostly involved her because even not only was she was a serial killer, she was the serial killer that killed Eric's mother, which set off the series to an extent. Eric's involved because he really does love Mira, mainly because she killed his mother and stole her smile, and is crazy clingy. Mira doesn't get a pass. After the game is over, she turns herself over the police and confesses to all of her murders in an attempt to start atoning for her actions. Sean decides that the only actual way to atone is to bust her out of prison and send her & Eric back in time via the transporter to stop herself from killing though.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:21
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Hey I have a dumb ending question: which "history" was it that Carlos killed 'Zero'? Zero refers to this while playing back a recording in the transporter room. In other random comments - I can't believe they threw a bunch of files out there after finishing the game, without telling you, for you to read that are basically epilogues for everyone. Some of them are LOL worthy. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 01:23
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Rascyc posted:Hey I have a dumb ending question: when he presses the button for the acid showers and executes D and Q teams e: oh this is spoiler thread Cake Attack fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 01:25
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Rascyc posted:Hey I have a dumb ending question: The history in which Q team was executed. Which relied on Carlos not following his own plan and voting for Q instead of D. Edit:^That too, I guess.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:25
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Oh right I completely forgot about that dumb quirk. I still enjoyed this game but several parts are pretty flimsy. I guess VLR/999 had those same flaws and I'm just nostalgic.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:25
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Rascyc posted:Oh right I completely forgot about that dumb quirk. nah 999 at least definitely holds up much better under scrutiny
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Jul 9, 2016 01:27
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That's because 999 didn't go to crazy town quite as much as the other two, but VLR is pretty much in the same boat as ZTD. That's why I can't really get too annoyed at the failings of this game, since it was pretty much business as usual.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:29
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Is there any sort of special acknowledgement if you have all three teams betray? Or does it just play out precisely like all three teams collaborated.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:32
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exploding mummy posted:Mira doesn't get a pass. After the game is over, she turns herself over the police and confesses to all of her murders in an attempt to start atoning for her actions. Sean decides that the only actual way to atone is to bust her out of prison and send her & Eric back in time via the transporter to stop herself from killing though. That ending was dumb as poo poo imo, because Mira/Eric are still staying behind in their timeline, only now there's video evidence of Eric being compliant in busting Mira out of jail.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:35
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Linguica posted:Is there any sort of special acknowledgement if you have all three teams betray? Or does it just play out precisely like all three teams collaborated. The specific votes are never shown to the teams, only whether or not any of the teams are dead, so it would have to play out exactly the same.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:48
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I don't think anyone's surprised by the outcome of this. Source.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:52
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Phi has said gently caress!?
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Jul 9, 2016 01:57
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I'm actually surprised Alice is so low on that chart.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:59
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Clarste posted:The specific votes are never shown to the teams, only whether or not any of the teams are dead, so it would have to play out exactly the same.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:59
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diana doesn't remember who they voted for
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Jul 9, 2016 02:00
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