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government contracting is a specialized field because government buyers are dumber than gently caress whenever purchasing goes all fuckfaced, you gotta ask: are you being fleeced, or did you fleece yourself? it is often a little of both
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Jul 9, 2016 18:22
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the twin cities transit authority apparently uses a mix of bombardier and siemens LRT vehicles and i've never heard that there were problems with them. i don't follow this stuff very closely though and yeah if you want to legally scam the poo poo out of people with your business, go into government contracting and lobbying.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:25
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fits my needs posted:why didn't BART go with standard cars and standard gauge so our poo poo could be cheaper, gently caress. because bart, like other metro systems designed in the 1960s in the US, is a urban metro/suburban commuter hybrid thats the worst of both worlds
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Jul 10, 2016 00:47
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the gauge really only costs more for off the shelf maintenance stuff, the cars/bogeys and whatnot are going to be customer specific in pretty much every large metro system anyway when your train car order costs $1.5 billion, the ~1 million it costs to retool the factory for india gauge doesnt stand out
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Jul 10, 2016 01:18
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:yep, exactly this. wrongo bongo. they made the driverless train and a bunch of the commuter rail trains that poo poo themselves
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Jul 10, 2016 04:39
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http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/12/how-federal-rules-make-it-harder-to-build-trains-in-america/quote:The 130 double decker railcars were approved for purchase in the 2008 stimulus package, destined for service in the Midwest and California. But the terms of the $352 million contract awarded to Nippon Sharyo, an American subsidiary of a Japanese rail company, made it impossible to complete on time. The company now says it won’t begin construction of the trains until 2018, when the order was supposed to be completed. It's a pity that train manufacturing is treated as a jobs program rather than actually aiming to build trains.
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Jul 10, 2016 11:36
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pointsofdata posted:http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/12/how-federal-rules-make-it-harder-to-build-trains-in-america/ idk that all sounds like WONTFIX WAI to me
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Jul 10, 2016 16:21
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that reads entirely as foreign company thought they could produce but didn't actually look into the costs and is now trying to weasel out of it. unless these us has asc abortion clinic level of safety requirements (afaik they do not), the complaint for unsafe vehicles falls on deaf ears to me. this is just someone trying to cut corners around their contract.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:21
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US rail regs really are that bad and the Sharyo's are generally who you want building your trains, but yeah. they shoulda known better tbh if the Sharyo's are goofin up (Kinki Sharyo's LA metro cars arent getting great reveiws), you are kinda boned regardless of who makes your stuff. Hyundai Rotem currently has duel scandals going with all the SEPTA cars and the Metrolink cab units both needing millions in retrofits
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Jul 10, 2016 18:26
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the whole point of the program was to promote us industry to create and make these things. they wanted it built from the ground up in the us. if we wanted an off the shelf japanese model they could have just flat out bought that. that misses the point of the program.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:32
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i assume the regs are supposed to decrease the odds of derailment or something, because if you don't derail everything should be fine, and if you do then everything is probably hosed regardless of car design
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Jul 10, 2016 18:44
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rjmccall posted:i assume the regs are supposed to decrease the odds of derailment or something, because if you don't derail everything should be fine, and if you do then everything is probably hosed regardless of car design no they literally require crumple zones and poo poo. on a train. its really stupid its sorta like how the TSA adds dumb new regs after an incident so they can claim they responded, even if we all know its bullshit
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Jul 10, 2016 18:47
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rjmccall posted:i assume the regs are supposed to decrease the odds of derailment or something, because if you don't derail everything should be fine, and if you do then everything is probably hosed regardless of car design The regs are mostly based around making sure your train car is really heavy, so that it can collide with a freight train. It does not require modern safe signalling features to prevent collisions, as that would require systematic change.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:47
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Cygni posted:no they literally require crumple zones and poo poo. on a train. its really stupid lol how about focusing on making sure trains don't crash into other trains the first place
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Jul 10, 2016 18:48
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amazing
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Jul 10, 2016 18:51
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mishaq posted:lol that would be european
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Jul 10, 2016 18:59
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Cygni posted:no they literally require crumple zones and poo poo. on a train. its really stupid actually the euro regs allow for crumple zones and poo poo, which is cool and good the FRA requires that the trains bounce off each other basically the difference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U
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Jul 10, 2016 19:02
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it requires things like "these cars cannot telescope" which is actually good
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Jul 10, 2016 19:03
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Bloody posted:it requires things like "these cars cannot telescope" which is actually good i had never thought of telescoping passenger cars until now.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:09
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Mr. Nice! posted:the whole point of the program was to promote us industry to create and make these things. they wanted it built from the ground up in the us. if we wanted an off the shelf japanese model they could have just flat out bought that. that misses the point of the program. this is anti-free market
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Jul 10, 2016 19:11
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is that an actual frequent enough occurrence to worry about or is it mostly a theoretical one with no real incidents to support?
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Jul 10, 2016 19:12
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ArmZ posted:this is anti-free market well, yeah. its a domestic stimulus program.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:13
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Mr. Nice! posted:is that an actual frequent enough occurrence to worry about or is it mostly a theoretical one with no real incidents to support? no idea, i just know that it's one of the drivers of the existing regulations apparently it does happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescoping_(rail_cars)
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Jul 10, 2016 19:22
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Malcolm XML posted:basically the difference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U lol holy poo poo
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Jul 10, 2016 19:22
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Mr. Nice! posted:is that an actual frequent enough occurrence to worry about or is it mostly a theoretical one with no real incidents to support? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2009_Washington_Metro_train_collision
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Jul 10, 2016 20:07
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Bloody posted:no idea, i just know that it's one of the drivers of the existing regulations it's bad! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3763899&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=85#post461857022
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Jul 11, 2016 13:49
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:yep, exactly this. same for the CTA though all the new cars did get pulled out of service a few months after introduction due to the CTA shops noticing the axles were mis-cast, and had to wait for Bombardier to try again Bombardier does not have the contract for the next train set order, that went to some Chinese company that is building a factory somewhere in Illinois also I guess the FRA regs explain why CTA cars are still based on a 1964 Pullman design.
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Jul 11, 2016 14:04
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pointsofdata posted:http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/12/how-federal-rules-make-it-harder-to-build-trains-in-america/ lol yeah ok. tell us more about your track sharing app.
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Jul 11, 2016 14:06
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Bloody posted:it requires things like "these cars cannot telescope" which is actually good sure but the euro/japanese regs help prevent that too and dont require every traincar to be a 10 million ton lump of solid steel heres the latest drama around FRA regs and buy america and all that http://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/07/07/phillys-railcar-meltdown-and-americas-disastrous-train-regulations/ also some industry group did a study a few years back and basically came to the conclusion that the FRA regs made US trains less safe and more expensive but idk where i saw that Cygni fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 16:31
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Cygni posted:sure but the euro/japanese regs help prevent that too and dont require every traincar to be a 10 million ton lump of solid steel idk seems more like bad public requisitions processes.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:16
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toronto transit: the network effect or why you don't let shaggars control transit planning
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Jul 12, 2016 00:15
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mishaq posted:lol Yeahhhhhh… The push to implement PTC on a national rail level has been an absolute clusterfuck. In 2008 they set a deadline of 2015. It's been extended to 2018 and everyone's operating under the assumption that they're going to extend it again because there's no way they're making that deadline. Then there's the part where every rail carrier has been building systems which aren't interoperable. And the fact that there's only a single company developing the in-cab equipment and charging $100,000 per install with what should be $5000 of equipment.
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Jul 12, 2016 02:19
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Jimmy Carter posted:Yeahhhhhh… something something we wont have gps-based ATC for airplanes until 2133
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Jul 12, 2016 02:46
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mishaq posted:something something we wont have gps-based ATC for airplanes until 2133 hell, aviation isn't going to meet the deadline for installing ADS-B transponders in every plane all the avionics installers are starting to get booked up years in advance. Come 2020 there's going to be quite a few grounded Cessnas.
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Jul 12, 2016 02:53
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well at least we'll have self-crashing cars
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Jul 12, 2016 04:17
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did we talk about bike lanes yet
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Jul 12, 2016 16:30
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where i live bikes have priority over cars at roundabouts and separate lanes its loving awesome
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Jul 12, 2016 16:31
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:roundabouts dirty red spotted
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Jul 12, 2016 16:36
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communist europe owns
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Jul 12, 2016 16:59
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Mr SuperAwesome posted:where i live bikes have priority over cars at roundabouts and separate lanes its loving awesome my favorite roundabouts are the ones in aruba that enforce lane enter/exit conventions with curbs. enter in the left lane and you can't exit on the first exit, curb directs you to the 2nd or 3rd exit.
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Jul 12, 2016 17:30
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