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Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

GotLag posted:

The glare of the sun drowning out my HUD is fine, but that big cloud is annoying as gently caress.

OK, I turned down the skybox cloud's brightness in the build I just uploaded.

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powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
I reset my campaign to try playing through on Harbinger without getting fleet size upgrades for as long as possible. I'm having trouble getting the bonuses on tannhauser gate (just beating the mission is easy though), but otherwise haven't had any issues beating missions + getting all bonuses. It's a lot more fun to play the earlier missions on hard if you don't have your bullet sponge cap ship fleet along. My favorite load-out is autocannon, shotgun, armor piercing, and either flak drone or shields depending on whether there might be missiles. For those who hate the shotgun, it's amazing if you get inside an enemy cap ship's shields since they also work against other enemies trying to hit you. I like to boost in, hit the brakes in a blind spot, and unload my shotgun with impunity.

A version of the main campaign where you had extra strong fighters (maybe a third upgrade slot?) but no cap ships would be fun.

And I like the not being able to see into the sun mechanic.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Kairo posted:

OK, I turned down the skybox cloud's brightness in the build I just uploaded.

That's much clearer, thanks.

It'd be nice if you didn't have to turn it down, and could have some kind of shadowing/contrast effect that could work against light backgrounds but still get lost in the sun's glare, but that's probably a lot of effort for minimal gain.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001

diapermeat posted:

10% off on today's steam sale if anyone was tempted to buy..

Congrats on being a Featured VR Game, Kairo:

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
This game is intense as gently caress if you turn off the music and play this in the background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHpzlBMfaeY

"Priest 21, this is Trebor. Clear fire. Kill Wyvern."
"Trebor. Say again."
"I say again. Kill Wyvern."
"Roger. Kill Wyvern."
:black101:

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Hey, what's that mission in the bottom where you just fight the Broodmother and then die? Operation Valiant Heart I think it's called?

Aesis
Oct 9, 2012
Filthy J4G
The Physician mission bonus seems to be bugged at Harbinger. I killed 2 bonuses and somehow it met the requirement of 3 kills.

Cathair
Jan 7, 2008

Aesis posted:

The Physician mission bonus seems to be bugged at Harbinger. I killed 2 bonuses and somehow it met the requirement of 3 kills.

There should be three. I'll fire up the game to double-check, but off the top of my head I remember there always being two destroyers and a frigate for the bonus objective.

E: Confirmed. They all start in a tight formation with each other, you must've just lost track of one somehow.

Cathair fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 3, 2016

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Hey, what's that mission in the bottom where you just fight the Broodmother and then die? Operation Valiant Heart I think it's called?

That's the broken dev version of Firefight I've been working on. I didn't catch all the cases to disable it outside the editor. It only seems to happen if you've beaten every mission, so I haven't pushed a build to rehide it just yet.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
Didn't The Templar have an asteroid in it before? I just fired it up now and it's entirely open space, which makes killing the enemy frigates laughably easy.

Daviclond
May 20, 2006

Bad post sighted! Firing.
I bought the game recently but it crashes straight to a white window, saying "dyingsun.exe is not responding" for me when I launch it through steam, either by selecting "Play House of the Dying Sun" or the play in VR option. Same story if I try to launch it through the SteamVR dashboard.

If I launch it using the DX 9.0 option it loads with no problems and goes straight to the main menu screen.

Any ideas to get it working? No crash log is generated in the game folder unfortunately. I'm running Win10, a 6700K processor, 970 GPU and 16 GB of RAM. I've updated all my drivers to latest, including graphics drivers.

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

Unfortunately, without a log I can't really begin to help you. Seems like there's some incompatibility with your 970 and the game's DX11 renderer.

The white screen has been fixed in other instances by:
1) Updating your AV definitions (particularly if it's Avast)
2) Turn off ShadowPlay in your nVidia settings
3) Try launching in DX9, turn off all the graphical options, then try DX11 to see if it was any of those
4) Try the beta branch (in the properties page of Steam)

If none of that works, I would just apply for a Steam refund.

Daviclond
May 20, 2006

Bad post sighted! Firing.
Thanks, but no dice on any of those fixes. I'm not fussed on the refund, I'll just keep the game in my library for now and eventually one of us will probably inadvertently fix it by changing something :shobon:

I noticed I can run DyingSun.exe from the game's directory in my steam library and it starts up OK. I can't tell which DX version it runs by default, but if it's DX11 then it kinda points to an issue with Steam, no?

Sekenr
Dec 12, 2013




How the gently caress do you do tannhauser gate on harbinger? Just tell me exactly what to do, setup and tactics.

Some more thoughts on the game after playing harbinger:
The core of the game is good, no need to change anything, well done! Just needs some quality of life improvements -
1. Either a button for other fighters to gap with you or a standing order which you can enable or disable
2. Better visibility for bonus objectives
3. Tannhauser gate. It is impossible on harbinger. Pretend that you make this mission harder like everybody asks, but secretly make it easier

Sekenr fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 10, 2016

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
The time limit on Tannhauser is pretty daunting at first.

My setup:
  • Fighters: shields, gap drive
  • Destroyers: shields, repair drones, torpedoes, omniflak
  • Frigate: AP rounds, flak drone, artillery, omniflak
The destroyer/frigate setup here is what I run on pretty much every mission. Usually it's enough to order the destroyers to guard the frigate at the start of the mission and never touch them again, only issuing orders to the frigate via the tactical screen. The three repair drones will easily keep the frigate alive long enough to destroy a flagship, while the flak drone shoots down enemy torpedo salvos.

Mission sequence:
  1. Order destroyers to guard frigate
  2. Give the frigate a queue of attack orders: the two unshielded freighters followed by the capital escorts
  3. Give myself (and wingman) an attack queue: the sentinels, then the two shielded freighters
  4. Jump to sentinels, destroy them - kill/evade the flak drone nearby
  5. Jump to shielded freighters, and take them down by destroying their bridges - this brings the shield down instantly as well as doing significant damage
  6. Clean up
  7. Jump out
By the time I've killed the sentinels and taken down the shielded freighters, the frigate will have popped the two unshielded freighters and begin blowing away the escorts. Then it's just a matter of killing the rest and optionally hanging around to destroy the flagship when it rocks up.

GotLag fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Jul 10, 2016

TheMostFrench
Jul 12, 2009

Stop for me, it's the claw!



Sekenr posted:

3. Tannhauser gate. It is impossible on harbinger. Pretend that you make this mission harder like everybody asks, but secretly make it easier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m94oB16eCA

RangerKarl
Oct 7, 2013
Tannhauser Gate's Harbinger difficulty is the level I want all the other missions to be at for that difficulty. Feels like the only time I actually got to use the C&C interface in the map.

Also, apparently public beta just got the Challenge/Wave Mode in it, anyone give it a shot yet?

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
What's the key to access the beta?

Edit: never mind, I'm just retarded and thought I had to use the CHECK CODE button

Sekenr
Dec 12, 2013




GotLag posted:

The time limit on Tannhauser is pretty daunting at first.

My setup:
  • Fighters: shields, gap drive
  • Destroyers: shields, repair drones, torpedoes, omniflak
  • Frigate: AP rounds, flak drone, artillery, omniflak
The destroyer/frigate setup here is what I run on pretty much every mission. Usually it's enough to order the destroyers to guard the frigate at the start of the mission and never touch them again, only issuing orders to the frigate via the tactical screen. The three repair drones will easily keep the frigate alive long enough to destroy a flagship, while the flak drone shoots down enemy torpedo salvos.

Mission sequence:
  1. Order destroyers to guard frigate
  2. Give the frigate a queue of attack orders: the two unshielded freighters followed by the capital escorts
  3. Give myself (and wingman) an attack queue: the sentinels, then the two shielded freighters
  4. Jump to sentinels, destroy them - kill/evade the flak drone nearby
  5. Jump to shielded freighters, and take them down by destroying their bridges - this brings the shield down instantly as well as doing significant damage
  6. Clean up
  7. Jump out
By the time I've killed the sentinels and taken down the shielded freighters, the frigate will have popped the two unshielded freighters and begin blowing away the escorts. Then it's just a matter of killing the rest and optionally hanging around to destroy the flagship when it rocks up.

Thank you VERY much. Not only did I beat the mission but somehow all my interceptors survived.
Edit: Heh, the "secret" ending is pretty drat incredible.

Sekenr fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 10, 2016

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
Everyone talked up Tannhauser on Harb but by the time I got to it I just... passed it? It wasn't really a challenge. One of the harder missions, certainly but I had a lot more trouble killing that carrier in the asteroid field.

Gap drive -> hide in their shields takes care of pretty much everything without any real danger to you.

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
With the full capital ship fleet it was relatively easy to get everything even on harbinger. Usually I'd have capital ships take out the escorts while I pop the freighters. Omniflak and shields on capital ships; armor piercing rounds and shields on fighters with shotgun+autocannon.

With no cap ships I can still get the freighters easy, but I wasn't able to master killing all the escorts too before getting bored. My normal play style is to get up to point blank range with the shotgun, which is especially effective with shielded capital ships. Their shields protect you so you can just sit there and pump shotgun rounds in until they die. For those runs I've been using armor piercing with the flak drone as it seems like the best way to deal with enemy missiles if you don't have capital ships to soak them up.

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC

RangerKarl posted:

Also, apparently public beta just got the Challenge/Wave Mode in it, anyone give it a shot yet?
Apparently my save got wiped/was rendered incompatible by the beta at some point, so I used this as an excuse to whip through the game on Harbinger again.

Anyway, did that, then checked out the challenge mode. It sure sounds neat:



Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working just yet, so hopping on the beta just for this will probably result in disappointment. While you can start the mission, the timer is missing/invisible and nothing happens after blowing everything up aside from eventually exploding (presumably due to the invisible timer running out).

E: I'm seeing discussion on the steam forums that would indicate that it was working, at least for some people, so maybe something else is up?

Helter Skelter fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 11, 2016

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

Are you on the Challenge Mode branch or the beta branch? The beta branch has the broken version, I think. I'll just bring it up to parity with the challenge mode one.

Random terrain is coming online today too.

Edit: Beta branch is now the same as the challenge mode branch.

Edit 2: Random terrain is in.

Kairo fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 11, 2016

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC

I was on the beta branch, didn't realize there was a separate one for the challenge mode. Guess I know what I'm doing tonight.

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time
Thanks for continuing development on this awesome title, Kairo. I look forward to testing out the beta branch tonight also!

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC

Okay the challenge mode is really fun.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Challenge mode is great, but being unable to continue the run due to running out of executors is infuriating mostly because your other guys might just die suddenly or when you switch to the last one, he's already flying straight to something and you can't dodge. If it only ended when your whole fleet was done it'd be better in my opinion. Also I wish that the fights were a bit busier than they are and that engagements were closer, since I feel like I never see my capital ships. Still, the balance is good in terms of the wave encounters, and each fight is pretty fun.

The only sad part is that the game is most definitely not tactical in the slightest. There are no interesting decisions other than your upgrades and weapon choices at the start. The actual game is just flying around and kicking rear end in a really drat cool ship (which is pretty fun!) and occasionally telling your guys to kill the biggest/smallest enemies, which is not as fun. You don't have a real reason to protect your frigates and destroyers, but they're good at tanking big damage so sticking repair drones on them takes a lot of damage away from your actually useful interceptor.

It's empowering to kill everything, and the Executor is the most fun normal spaceship in a space game. Ever. However, it's not as enjoyable on the tactical level because you only have the Executor. It's like if the Empire only had TIE Defenders, having to rely on the Fighters for air superiority and escorting the Bombers is more interesting than force of Defenders doing literally everything, and when the player is a lot better at juggling these multiple tasks and exploiting the enemy shields it becomes a much simpler game.

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

The only sad part is that the game is most definitely not tactical in the slightest. There are no interesting decisions other than your upgrades and weapon choices at the start. The actual game is just flying around and kicking rear end in a really drat cool ship (which is pretty fun!) and occasionally telling your guys to kill the biggest/smallest enemies, which is not as fun. You don't have a real reason to protect your frigates and destroyers, but they're good at tanking big damage so sticking repair drones on them takes a lot of damage away from your actually useful interceptor..

I don't disagree with your assessment, but this is actually intentional. It was pretty much impossible to balance gameplay for both types of gameplay. I could never reconcile the balance of a homeworld style game/RTS and action game, and I ended up choosing the action game. I would totally rip out controlling capitals in tactical mode and just have you control your fighters if I had to do it again (and treat the capitals like Halo marines). I almost actually did it, but there would be even more screaming.

No more mixing genres in the future (or space sims).

Kairo fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 12, 2016

Aesis
Oct 9, 2012
Filthy J4G
Idk, I like assigning orders and just watching my spaceships do the works. But then AI is better than me :v:

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


That's a real shame Kairo, since that was always the most exciting bit to me. Rainbow Six 3 style planning followed by direct controlled execution would've been superb. Game's still great and I'll be popping into it at least weekly for challenge mode.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Kairo posted:

I don't disagree with your assessment, but this is actually intentional. It was pretty much impossible to balance gameplay for both types of gameplay. I could never reconcile the balance of a homeworld style game/RTS and action game, and I ended up choosing the action game. I would totally rip out controlling capitals in tactical mode and just have you control your fighters if I had to do it again (and treat the capitals like Halo marines). I almost actually did it, but there would be even more screaming.

No more mixing genres in the future (or space sims).

That would have been a terrible mistake, in my opinion. As good as the combat is (and it is excellent), having that alone would make the game a bit too one-dimensional. And players are certainly free to ignore the tactical map if they like - I completed the game the first time without using it, although I suffered heavy losses in the process.

AI video game teammates are never satisfyingly smart (except in scripted sequences). If the capitals in HotDS were good enough to not be frustratingly useless without orders, they'd be good enough for you to sit back and watch them clean up. When I first started playing I didn't bother issuing orders to my capitals apart from the occasional control wheel attack order and I'd lose all of them bar the occasional single survivor in every mission. Now that I've learned to control them properly I take it as a personal challenge to come out of every mission with my entire fleet intact.

Please continue mixing genres.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

That's a real shame Kairo, since that was always the most exciting bit to me. Rainbow Six 3 style planning followed by direct controlled execution would've been superb. Game's still great and I'll be popping into it at least weekly for challenge mode.

No it wouldn't :( Space sims don't have clear compartments of action like rooms and corridors. Rainbow Six planning is very strict, with waypoints and go-codes. You can't translate that into a space sim because the environment is much larger and more fluid. You have to command on the fly, like in FreeSpace or thise game.

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

New cycle is up and this time there's a station + sentry in there. Sentries are capturable forever in Challenge Mode if you're using the Betrayer Module. :black101:

Edit:

General Battuta posted:

No it wouldn't :( Space sims don't have clear compartments of action like rooms and corridors. Rainbow Six planning is very strict, with waypoints and go-codes. You can't translate that into a space sim because the environment is much larger and more fluid. You have to command on the fly, like in FreeSpace or thise game.

Yeah let's not get ahead of ourselves. That idea also failed for exactly those reasons.

Kairo fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 13, 2016

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

Kairo posted:

(and treat the capitals like Halo marines).

Always did try to keep those lovable idiots alive :shobon:

RangerKarl
Oct 7, 2013
I love that with how the challenges are set up near the big asteroid it's like they're sailing through a canyon sometimes

Kairo
Jun 21, 2003

GruntyThrst posted:

Always did try to keep those lovable idiots alive :shobon:

They're awesome. It's amazing how much more fun they are when you don't have any control over them, they're funny, and still somewhat useful. All their AI glitches become random fun things that happen instead of infuriating.

Even escorting Keyes in Truth and Reconciliation was fun to me, and it failed the mission whenever he died.

The_White_Crane
May 10, 2008
Mmph, I'm liking the daily challenge stuff!
Some questions:

Would it be possible to have the game archive old challenge runs, so you could go back and replay them, complete with a set of records-to-beat?

Might you add some way to reconfigure your upgrades mid-challenge; not on the fighter you're currently flying, but on whatever fighter is next spawned, so you can say "Okay, next time I get a fighter I want it to have Afterburners and a Flak Drone instead of Shields and AP Ammo.

Is there any chance/would it be a good idea if there were some way to earn new destroyers as well as new fighters, maybe every five waves or something?

Frosty Mossman
Feb 17, 2011

"I Guess Somebody Fixed All the Problems" -- Confused Citizen

Kairo posted:

They're awesome. It's amazing how much more fun they are when you don't have any control over them, they're funny, and still somewhat useful. All their AI glitches become random fun things that happen instead of infuriating.

Even escorting Keyes in Truth and Reconciliation was fun to me, and it failed the mission whenever he died.
I played through 3 with the Iron Skull, on Heroic. I had just managed to get almost through the longest mission of the game (The Covenant), landing on the ground after blowing the 2nd Scarab the hell up and then barely managing to dodge and kill the last Ghosts and Choppers on foot. I stopped to take a breath and celebrate a bit since I knew I was practically done with the mission, heard the sound of an approaching Warthog, turned to look as one jumped over a small bump in the terrain and started to slide towards me. I tried to dodge, but wasn't fast enough as the Warthog clipped my legs and crushed me. As the camera pulled back to show Chief dead on the ground and the 'hog sliding to a stop next to him, I heard the passenger exclaim something like: "Well NOW what are we going to do!?"

Still the best memory I have of the entire series.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
I'm still bitter and mad that the Halo franchise isn't on PC.

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GuardianOfAsgaard
Feb 1, 2012

Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods

Ynglaur posted:

I'm still bitter and mad that the Halo franchise isn't on PC.

Halo 6 and everything after almost certainly will be.

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